want to leave America

[Mags 112]

*sigh*

You really all want this locked doncha?

[Nessa 23]

yay!!

[no name 1]

I didn't say it wasn't. I asked him to explain it. I have explained mine.

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses can be threated by new legislation that is improperly written.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that, as Mags said, is certainly not black or white.

That is your opinion, just as Feelin as his. Why is his less valid because YOU say so?

You imply he hasn't thought about his opinion. Or that any of the anti-illegal, (NOT ANTI-IMMIGRANT as you have judged them to be) people here on VJ have.

Edited December 19, 2007 by devilette

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

*sigh*

You really all want this locked doncha?

consider it vj's christmas present to you

[ivona 0]

I wonder what else could we blame illegals for..... rising price of gas maybe? O O O O I know, for the rise of postage fees.......

It always amazes me how free people feel to just make such sweeping generalizations..... U.S. prisons are overcrowded- fact. U.S. prisons are overcrowded because of ILLEGAL criminals? That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.....

And all this from a simple question on how the guy can LEAVE the country. Key word: LEAVE

Leap, much? Not even close to the point - or even what was said. Reading comprehension is not prevalent on VJ.

Are you seriously telling me that it is your belief that the U.S. prisons are overcrowded because of illegal criminals? It was your statement that the prisons are full of ilegal criminals that rebecca called you on, to which you replied that the prisons are overcrowded.

btw, gas and postage prices mentioned were meant as sarcasm....

The ACTUAL purpose of the thread was to find out if the guy needed an "exit permit" to leave the country, and yet we find ourselves on yet another illegals bashing bandwagon. Isn't life on VJ just grand?

[no name 1]

*sigh*

You really all want this locked doncha?

consider it vj's christmas present to you

You're such a giver, Charles.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses can be threated by new legislation that is improperly written.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that,

Excellent post.

[no name 1]

I wonder what else could we blame illegals for..... rising price of gas maybe? O O O O I know, for the rise of postage fees.......

It always amazes me how free people feel to just make such sweeping generalizations..... U.S. prisons are overcrowded- fact. U.S. prisons are overcrowded because of ILLEGAL criminals? That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.....

And all this from a simple question on how the guy can LEAVE the country. Key word: LEAVE

Leap, much? Not even close to the point - or even what was said. Reading comprehension is not prevalent on VJ.

Are you seriously telling me that it is your belief that the U.S. prisons are overcrowded because of illegal criminals? It was your statement that the prisons are full of ilegal criminals that rebecca called you on, to which you replied that the prisons are overcrowded.

Re-read it, it wasn't my comment. Nor was that remotely what I said.

Edited December 19, 2007 by devilette

[Nessa 23]

[almaty 19]

vj sheesh

[rebeccajo 14]

All I did was offer up another point of view and why I feel the way I do.

Dev, I used to feel much the same way you and many of the others do. It's only been since I've learned what I know about how these laws are crafted that I've come to my conclusions.

I didn't say it wasn't. I asked him to explain it. I have explained mine.

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses can be threated by new legislation that is improperly written.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that, as Mags said, is certainly not black or white.

That is your opinion, just as Feelin as his. Why is his less valid because YOU say so?

You imply he hasn't thought about his opinion. Or that any of the anti-illegal people here on VJ have.

[*julez* 124]

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses have can be threated by new legislation.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that, as Mags said, is certainly not black or white.

What's the matter? You claimed you wanted to discuss this. Changed your mind?

I don't understand why someone possibly going home, and then being banned from this country if they tried to LEGALLY return (which is the only time the ban would matter to them) is something you look forward to.

In other words, is a 10 year ban an equitable punishment?

Ten years is a long time.

Deal with it. I don't understand why you care what I look forward to.

He did explain why he looks forward to the 10 yer ban. The problem is you don't understand his point of view any more that he understands your point of view. No matter how much you argue your point of view, I doubt that either of the two of you will suddenly proclaim, "Ah, I get it now! You're right! I completely agree with you now that you have fully explained you POV in minute detail."

Or shall we continue to flog this dead horse?

RJ, I can appreciate your point of view. Sincerely I can. I'm not even saying that I disagree with you, particularly when couching this as an immigration in total discussion. And, I also think the message you are spreading is an important one, since many of us on VJ may be a bit short-sighted in the illegal immigration debate. I don't think many realize that the illegal immigration debate and the negative attitude toward illegals may impact our legal immigrant spouses. However, there are many here that will not truly hear your message, regardless of how much you debate with him/her. And the aguring back and forth gets tiresome.

Personally, I don't support illegal immigration. But in the situation described by the OP, its tough. On the one hand, the person is, in fact, illegal. But on the other hand, he was brought here as a child by adults and now has to "pay the price" for that. I'm not sure its up to me to judge whether or not that's fair. The law says he's here illegally and should be deported. Many people do interpret this as a black and white situation. I think there are shades of grey here, but the law doesn't appear to recognize grey.

[john_and_marlene 162]

Careful -- popping popcorn in your hand could cause severe burns

[Mags 112]

*sigh*

You really all want this locked doncha?

consider it vj's christmas present to you

You can't stretch to a box of Fererro Rocher instead? Damn.

[no name 1]

All I did was offer up another point of view and why I feel the way I do.

Dev, I used to feel much the same way you and many of the others do. It's only been since I've learned what I know about how these laws are crafted that I've come to my conclusions.

I didn't say it wasn't. I asked him to explain it. I have explained mine.

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses can be threated by new legislation that is improperly written.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that, as Mags said, is certainly not black or white.

That is your opinion, just as Feelin as his. Why is his less valid because YOU say so?

You imply he hasn't thought about his opinion. Or that any of the anti-illegal people here on VJ have.

RJ, I'm all for a debate on this. But my god, you can't even reply without making a condescending post! Geez. You think I don't research on my own? Good god.