want to leave America

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

*sigh*

You really all want this locked doncha?

consider it vj's christmas present to you

You're such a giver, Charles.

that's what nessa loves about me too

*sigh*

You really all want this locked doncha?

consider it vj's christmas present to you

You can't stretch to a box of Fererro Rocher instead? Damn.

with extra cat hair sprinkles?

[no name 1]

Personally, I don't support illegal immigration. But in the situation described by the OP, its tough. On the one hand, the person is, in fact, illegal. But on the other hand, he was brought here as a child by adults and now has to "pay the price" for that. I'm not sure its up to me to judge whether or not that's fair. The law says he's here illegally and should be deported. Many people do interpret this as a black and white situation. I think there are shades of grey here, but the law doesn't appear to recognize grey.

[rebeccajo 14]

*holds up hands*

You want to make that out of it, go right ahead sister.

All I did was offer up another point of view and why I feel the way I do.

Dev, I used to feel much the same way you and many of the others do. It's only been since I've learned what I know about how these laws are crafted that I've come to my conclusions.

I didn't say it wasn't. I asked him to explain it. I have explained mine.

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses can be threated by new legislation that is improperly written.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that, as Mags said, is certainly not black or white.

That is your opinion, just as Feelin as his. Why is his less valid because YOU say so?

You imply he hasn't thought about his opinion. Or that any of the anti-illegal people here on VJ have.

RJ, I'm all for a debate on this. But my god, you can't even reply without making a condescending post! Geez. You think I don't research on my own? Good god.

[no name 1]

*holds up hands*

You want to make that out of it, go right ahead sister.

All I did was offer up another point of view and why I feel the way I do.

Dev, I used to feel much the same way you and many of the others do. It's only been since I've learned what I know about how these laws are crafted that I've come to my conclusions.

I didn't say it wasn't. I asked him to explain it. I have explained mine.

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses can be threated by new legislation that is improperly written.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that, as Mags said, is certainly not black or white.

That is your opinion, just as Feelin as his. Why is his less valid because YOU say so?

You imply he hasn't thought about his opinion. Or that any of the anti-illegal people here on VJ have.

RJ, I'm all for a debate on this. But my god, you can't even reply without making a condescending post! Geez. You think I don't research on my own? Good god.

2 posts saying the same thing - in 3 different ways, not really a jump.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Personally, I don't support illegal immigration. But in the situation described by the OP, its tough. On the one hand, the person is, in fact, illegal. But on the other hand, he was brought here as a child by adults and now has to "pay the price" for that. I'm not sure its up to me to judge whether or not that's fair. The law says he's here illegally and should be deported. Many people do interpret this as a black and white situation. I think there are shades of grey here, but the law doesn't appear to recognize grey.

There was a recent bill that was put forward that would have given legal status to those who were brought here as children if they attended college or joined the arm forces. We had several threads about it and there were those who, like now, thought that any sort of amnesty for illegals regardless of the circumstances is out of the question. I shake my head because I've never seen such emotionally charged stubbornness over an issue where they can't come up with any reasonable argument other than a violation of current immigration laws. My God...how many times have we seen and talked about injustices with current civil and criminal laws, and yet when it comes to immigration laws, some here adhere to them with an insane allegiance, as if there is no room for modifications or circumstances which create an unjust consequence.

[ivona 0]

Full?

Our prisons are full of former 13 year old criminal illegals.

Criminal illegal?

Yeah. Overcrowding is quite a problem in most US jails.

How is that supposed to read?

If rebeccajo writes a post directed to everyone, and only a few find it condecending is the problem in her post or in the people reading it? I personally think it is the readers but that is just my very personal opinion.

And I repeat again, the thread started as a simple question on leaving the country just to turn into this. If you guys want to debate it get a separate thread to do it in instead of making judgements about people you know nothing about, like the guy in question. That is, you know ONE thing about him and you give yourself the right to assume that that makes you know everything about him. God complex, anyone?

[rebeccajo 14]

Dev,

ALL I was saying is that MY opinion changed after I listened and learned to points of view different than opinions I held at that time.

If trying to study a situation is a flippin' crime, then color me guilty.

*holds up hands*

You want to make that out of it, go right ahead sister.

All I did was offer up another point of view and why I feel the way I do.

Dev, I used to feel much the same way you and many of the others do. It's only been since I've learned what I know about how these laws are crafted that I've come to my conclusions.

I didn't say it wasn't. I asked him to explain it. I have explained mine.

*sigh*

Julez, here's where I am coming from, anytime I foolishly decide to enter into one of these debates.

I am constantly amazed by the amount of anti-immigrant rhetoric I see on this site. And yes, I regard speaking with disdain about the EWI situation as anti-immigrant. Not because I think anybody deserves 'amnesty', or any of the other things that always get tossed up to those of us who don't speak vehemently against illegal entrants.

I'm a philosopher of sorts and a student of history. When I see the citizens of this nation crying out against a 'class' of people, it makes me really uncomfortable. I see images in my mind of Japanese citizens huddled into 'safe housing' that in reality was nothing more than US concentration camps. I recall people in Germany being asked to produce 'papers' during the Third Reich. I remember how my blood ran cold the first time I heard my husband tell me about standing in line to be frisked by the police whenever he went into town during the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland.

This country is not immigrant friendly right now. The talk in the media may be about illegal entrants, but the rights and very protections our foreign born spouses can be threated by new legislation that is improperly written.

THAT is what worries me and that is why I enter into these debates.

I really believe that each and every one of us who is married to a foreign born individual should think DEEPLY before they speak or develop opinions about a situation that, as Mags said, is certainly not black or white.

That is your opinion, just as Feelin as his. Why is his less valid because YOU say so?

You imply he hasn't thought about his opinion. Or that any of the anti-illegal people here on VJ have.

RJ, I'm all for a debate on this. But my god, you can't even reply without making a condescending post! Geez. You think I don't research on my own? Good god.

2 posts saying the same thing - in 3 different ways, not really a jump.

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

Dev,

ALL I was saying is that MY opinion changed after I listened and learned to points of view different than opinions I held at that time.

If trying to study a situation is a flippin' crime, then color me guilty.

ditto

link

[almaty 19]

Full?

Our prisons are full of former 13 year old criminal illegals.

Criminal illegal?

Yeah. Overcrowding is quite a problem in most US jails.

How is that supposed to read?

If rebeccajo writes a post directed to everyone, and only a few find it condecending is the problem in her post or in the people reading it? I personally think it is the readers but that is just my very personal opinion.

And I repeat again, the thread started as a simple question on leaving the country just to turn into this. If you guys want to debate it get a separate thread to do it in instead of making judgements about people you know nothing about, like the guy in question. That is, you know ONE thing about him and you give yourself the right to assume that that makes you know everything about him. God complex, anyone?

amen..and you are correct...

[no name 1]

Full?

Our prisons are full of former 13 year old criminal illegals.

Criminal illegal?

Yeah. Overcrowding is quite a problem in most US jails.

How is that supposed to read?

If rebeccajo writes a post directed to everyone, and only a few find it condecending is the problem in her post or in the people reading it? I personally think it is the readers but that is just my very personal opinion.

And I repeat again, the thread started as a simple question on leaving the country just to turn into this. If you guys want to debate it get a separate thread to do it in instead of making judgements about people you know nothing about, like the guy in question. That is, you know ONE thing about him and you give yourself the rght to assume that that makes you know everything about him. God complex, anyone?

I said that US jails are full - in reply to RJ saying 'full?'. Nothing about illegals in my post.

You repeat your point again & again - and scolding others, does that mean you have a God complex too?

I know several things about him, one being he wants to leave America cuz he's not getting amnesty.

Edited December 19, 2007 by devilette

[rebeccajo 14]

Personally, I don't support illegal immigration. But in the situation described by the OP, its tough. On the one hand, the person is, in fact, illegal. But on the other hand, he was brought here as a child by adults and now has to "pay the price" for that. I'm not sure its up to me to judge whether or not that's fair. The law says he's here illegally and should be deported. Many people do interpret this as a black and white situation. I think there are shades of grey here, but the law doesn't appear to recognize grey.

There was a recent bill that was put forward that would have given legal status to those who were brought here as children if they attended college or joined the arm forces. We had several threads about it and there were those who, like now, thought that any sort of amnesty for illegals regardless of the circumstances is out of the question. I shake my head because I've never seen such emotionally charged stubbornness over an issue where they can't come up with any reasonable argument other than a violation of current immigration laws. My God...how many times have we seen and talked about injustices with current civil and criminal laws, and yet when it comes to immigration laws, some here adhere to them with an insane allegiance, as if there is no room for modifications or circumstances which create an unjust consequence.

If one studies the arguments of the PAC's lobbying Washington for 'amnesty', you'll find those not on the radical fringe acknowledge that illegal entry is a crime and there should be a price to pay for that crime.

What they are generally seeking is a punishment that fits the crime.

I have always found it odd that CURRENT law allows those married to US citizens to overstep many situations that other immigrant categories cannot. Take overstaying a visa for example - particulary a K1. How many times do we see the word 'forgiven' used in post replies when someone asks if they can file for adjustment of status after the K1 expires. No one seems to think there's anything wrong with THAT overstay. Yet if someone who is not married to a USC overstays another visa type, the 'crime' is not forgiven.

Isn't it odd the law allows that?

[ivona 0]

You repeat your point again & again - and scolding others, does that mean you have a God complex too?

I know several things about him, one being he wants to leave America cuz he's not getting amnesty.

You are very entertaining. Perhaps I do, in the eyes of some at least

What other things do you know about him? Seeing how he isn't even the one posting the question if I remember correctly.

[no name 1]

I have always found it odd that CURRENT law allows those married to US citizens to overstep many situations that other immigrant categories cannot. Take overstaying a visa for example - particulary a K1. How many times do we see the word 'forgiven' used in post replies when someone asks if they can file for adjustment of status after the K1 expires. No one seems to think there's anything wrong with THAT overstay.

Have you asked anyone here? I bet the answer would be different. we had a thread about it a month or 2 ago....

Edited December 19, 2007 by devilette

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

Personally, I don't support illegal immigration. But in the situation described by the OP, its tough. On the one hand, the person is, in fact, illegal. But on the other hand, he was brought here as a child by adults and now has to "pay the price" for that. I'm not sure its up to me to judge whether or not that's fair. The law says he's here illegally and should be deported. Many people do interpret this as a black and white situation. I think there are shades of grey here, but the law doesn't appear to recognize grey.

There was a recent bill that was put forward that would have given legal status to those who were brought here as children if they attended college or joined the arm forces. We had several threads about it and there were those who, like now, thought that any sort of amnesty for illegals regardless of the circumstances is out of the question. I shake my head because I've never seen such emotionally charged stubbornness over an issue where they can't come up with any reasonable argument other than a violation of current immigration laws. My God...how many times have we seen and talked about injustices with current civil and criminal laws, and yet when it comes to immigration laws, some here adhere to them with an insane allegiance, as if there is no room for modifications or circumstances which create an unjust consequence.

If one studies the arguments of the PAC's lobbying Washington for 'amnesty', you'll find those not on the radical fringe acknowledge that illegal entry is a crime and there should be a price to pay for that crime.

What they are generally seeking is a punishment that fits the crime.

I have always found it odd that CURRENT law allows those married to US citizens to overstep many situations that other immigrant categories cannot. Take overstaying a visa for example - particulary a K1. How many times do we see the word 'forgiven' used in post replies when someone asks if they can file for adjustment of status after the K1 expires. No one seems to think there's anything wrong with THAT overstay. Yet if someone who is not married to a USC overstays another visa type, the 'crime' is not forgiven.

Isn't it odd the law allows that?

personally, i'd take 10 that entered under a k-1/k-3 WITH INSPECTION over 1 that enters without inspection.

[Caladan 19]

Everyone's certainly comfortable with advising people that they can wait a long time to file for their new spouse's greencard, despite the fact they're just as illegal on day 91 as anyone else out of status.