Asking the [probably] Impossible...

[shikarnov 7]

Hi all,

My fiance asked me if there was any way, after we're settled stateside, that her Mom could come for an extended visit (whenever we get around to having a child), and maybe even to live if she's willing (I highly doubt it)...

Anyway, I told her that the likelihood of her mom getting a visa was pretty much impossible. She owns a tiny flat worth only 400,000 roubles, and has a shitty job, no husband, and no real ties beyond her son (my fiance's older brother - who we'd also like to visit some day). But, in spite of my telling her that, she wanted me to ask you all for your opinions, experiences, and/or advice...

So here I am asking you all this: Is there any way to get Mom and Brother into the US for visits? If it can be done before Ira finishes going through the 10-year citizenship process (if she decides to go through it), so much the better...

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Z

[YuAndDan 153]

Actually this is not an impossibility.

Example from another site: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...ost&p=94823

[shikarnov 7]

Actually this is not an impossibility.

Example from another site: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...ost&p=94823

The site seems to be erring out (at the URI you mentioned, at the forum root, and at the registration page), so I can't see it.

Is anybody else having trouble with it?

Z

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Well, it really depends on your definition of "extended" visit and/or your willingness and abilities to sponsor all these people.

[YuAndDan 153]

Actually this is not an impossibility.

Example from another site: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...ost&p=94823

The site seems to be erring out (at the URI you mentioned, at the forum root, and at the registration page), so I can't see it.

Is anybody else having trouble with it?

Z

OK I will post what the link had: (Ignore the Chinese parts, but it should give you ideas about how to do this)

I will post here, hope this information helps everybody. If you still have any questions, Please let me know.

List (目录)

PART I - INVITEE (第一部分) (被邀请人)

1. Passport (护照, 原件)

2. DS 156 Form (DS156表, 原件, 中英文各一份)

3. DS 157 Form (DS157表, 原件, 中英文各一份)

4. Receipt of Visa Application Fee (中信银行的签证费收据, 原件)

5. Resident Booklet (护口本)

6. National Identification Cards (身份证)

7. Evidences of Properties’ ownership (房产证明)

8. Evidences of Bank Saving (银行存款证明)

9. Retiree’s card and Certificate of pension (退休证和退休金证明)

10. Verification of Son’s Employment

(儿子的工作证明)

11. Copies of National ID of Son (儿子身份证复印件)

12. Family Photos (家庭照片)

13. Letter of Dad’s Employment(爸爸公司的经济和雇用证明信)

PART II ( 第二部分 ) - INVITER ( 邀请人 )

1. Invitation Letter (English & Chinese) (邀请函中英文各一份)

2. Affidavit of Support I-134 Form (经济担保证明 I-134表)

3. Ella’s I-94 copy (女儿的入境卡)

4. Copy of Income Tax Return 2003 (2003年个人收入纳税表复印件)

5. Copies of Ella & Tine’s passport (女儿和女婿的护照复印件)

6. Copy of Ella’s Visa (女儿到美国的签证复印件)

7. Copies of Daughter & Granddaughter’s Green Card, SSN (女儿和外孙女的绿卡、社安号复印件)

8. Copy of Driver License: Son-In-Law and Daughter (女婿和女儿的驾照复印件)

9. Copy of Marriage License (结婚证复印件)

10.Letter of Tine’s Employment (Tine公司的经济和雇用证明信)

11.Photos (家庭照片)

12.Notarial Certificate of relationship (直系亲属关系公证书)

13.Letter for VO. (英文信函一份给签证官)

Letter For VO.

To: American Counsulate General

Mei Long Zheng Plaza 8th Floor

Shanghai, China 200001

Subject : Issuance of visiorts visa for my mother-in law.

Dear Visa Officer,

We would like to invite our mother, XXXX(here is mother’s name) to visit our home in XXXXX(here is address of your home) for 4-6 months, so she may visit her daughter and grandchildren. While here we would like to take her to visit New York city, Washington DC, Orlando, FL. Her husband can not join her due to his work schedule and she also has a son and daughter-in-law in Shanghai.

During her stay here we will bear all financial responsibilites during her stay including her round trip air fare from Shanghai to Indianapolis and back, medical insurance while here, and all travel expense.

Tine XXXX & Ella XXXX

(sign your names here)

Letter for Mom:Chinese & English

亲爱的妈妈：你好！

这封信是邀请你到美国来看我们，并且和我们一起生活。你在美国的6个月里，我们将会支付你在美期间所有的生活和旅行费用，包括往返的飞机票。当你来到美国后，我们将会带你到以下几个地方去参观和旅行。在具体时间上也许会有所变动，如果时间允许的话，我们还会带你到其他几个信里没有列出的地方去看看。

5月

去看有名的赛车比赛。Tine在每年的5月和8月到那里工作几天，他可以带家属进入比赛场地。这个赛车比赛即使在世界上也是很名的。

7月

我们会到纽约和华盛顿：纽约的唐人街，有名的华尔街，自由女神像；华盛顿是美国的首都，我们去年去过的，很值得去看看的。

8月

到美丽的佛罗达海滩度假，并到想往以久的迪斯尼乐团去游玩。

其他时间我们会带你到我们印第安那转转，我们生活的这个城市是非常美丽的。在和我们生活的几个月里，你会了解和体验美国人的生活，我们也相信你一定会在美国度过一段美好的时光的。

你的女婿：

你的女儿：

2004年12月

Tine & Ella XXXX

XXXXXXX(here is your address)

Dec.30th 2004

Ref: To XXX(here is your mom’s Chinese name)

Dear Mom: (here is your mom’s name, type “PinYing”)

This letter is invite you to come USA to see us ,and live with us for 6 months in Indianapolis Indiana, USA. We will pay all the fees for your living and traveling in USA, and the plane ticket for coming USA and returning to China. During your stay in USA, We will visit several famous cities in the world:

May 21st-22nd & May 29th

Indianapolis: Indianapolis 500 Car Race ,It is the most famous car race in the world.

July 9th- 18th :

New York: Walk in Walt Street and to visit the Statue of Liberty; China Town, Atlantic City and Nigara Falls.

Washington DC: Our nations capitol, The White House our Presidents home, and many other sites.

Aug 14th~30th :

Florida: Disney World, Miami 1 week and one week on the beach in Ft. Myers Florida.

You will know that how the persons in USA are living and how we are Living in USA.

We believe that you will feel pleasure during your traveling in USA.

Your Daughter:

Your Son-in-law:

Dec30th, 2004

Edited December 18, 2007 by YuAndDan

[shikarnov 7]

Well, it really depends on your definition of "extended" visit and/or your willingness and abilities to sponsor all these people.

Well, I'm not expecting this to happen for a several years... So, hopefully there will be adequate time to prepare for the sponsorship responsibilities. As for the definition of "extended," I'd guess at least 6-12 months or so, since her mom wants to be around during her eventual pregnancy and after a baby is born. Depending on how the visit goes, my fiance has expressed hopes that her mom would eventually live with us one day.

Actually, her mom would prefer we have any kids in Russia - but after my own personal experiences with Ivanovo medicine, there is no way in the world that'll happen.

OK I will post what the link had: (Ignore the Chinese parts, but it should give you ideas about how to do this)

Thanks for the copy/paste... Interesting enough the site *still* errs out for me. I'm wondering if Russian IP addresses may be blocked by default -- or maybe Macs in general have problems with the board software...

Anyway, I'm not really clear about the relationships in this case. Is the foreign spouse already a USC, or still only a permanent resident? I can't find the USCIS link offhand, but I was pretty sure that only immediate relatives to a USC are able to be sponsored. Although, perhaps I'm getting confused with immigration visas versus visiting visas.

Thanks for the replies.

Z

[mox 298]

Actually, her mom would prefer we have any kids in Russia - but after my own personal experiences with Ivanovo medicine, there is no way in the world that'll happen.

I have no idea what the immigration consequences would be, so someone else might want to comment about that. But as far as the actual having a child in Russia goes, I wouldn't let that stop you. Women have been having babies for a couple years now, and most get by with no complications. That baby's going to come out whether she's in a hospital or the middle of Grand Central Station. If she's a young healthy woman, all the Doctor or midwife is going to do is play catcher.

In all seriousness, if having your child in Russia is important to her mom, then you can bet the farm that it's important to her. And if it's important to her, then your excuse that the medical facilities are sub-par is going to fly like a pregnant pole vaulter. She's first going to be angry that you are denying her this, and also that you're insulting her country's medical facilities. (It may be true, and she may even be critical of them herself, but as the foreigner you must tread much more lightly when it comes to these things.)

Unless she has a medical history that would make child birth complicated, you should really reconsider letting her have her child in Russia.

[groovlstk 0]

In all seriousness, if having your child in Russia is important to her mom, then you can bet the farm that it's important to her. And if it's important to her, then your excuse that the medical facilities are sub-par is going to fly like a pregnant pole vaulter. She's first going to be angry that you are denying her this, and also that you're insulting her country's medical facilities. (It may be true, and she may even be critical of them herself, but as the foreigner you must tread much more lightly when it comes to these things.)

Unless she has a medical history that would make child birth complicated, you should really reconsider letting her have her child in Russia.

I'm not in agreement here, there are many reasons not to do this, chief among them insurance (does his family policy cover her medical expenses in Russia?) and the likelyhood that he may not be there for the birth of his child - and if he is there, how long can he stay? How long will his wife stay? I have no idea at what age infants can fly, but I would never put my wife and child through a 12-hour flight even months after our child is born.

My wife and I plan to have children and we'd love to have babushka with us at the time, but we belong together and our needs and the needs of our child are more important than hers. Heck, send her photos if she can't be present...

[mox 298]

As the father of 3 children, I can tell you that babies are a lot tougher than new parents think. They travel fine, better than adults actually, although might make other passengers cranky. And I'm pretty sure it's going to be a lot cheaper to have a baby in Russia than the U.S., but I could be wrong.

Bottom line is that it needs to be a joint decision. I'm the worst person in the world to ask for relationship advice, but if she's feeling disrespected and excluded from this very important decisions, only bad things can happen. Not what you want for what should be one of the happiest moments in a couple's lives.

[Satellite 1]

I'm not in agreement here, there are many reasons not to do this, chief among them insurance (does his family policy cover her medical expenses in Russia?) and the likelihood that he may not be there for the birth of his child - and if he is there, how long can he stay? How long will his wife stay? I have no idea at what age infants can fly, but I would never put my wife and child through a 12-hour flight even months after our child is born.

Just to counter your reasons, his wife and the child will both receive free medical care in Russia, because after all they will be / are Russian citizens. His wife and child will be able to stay, forever, because of their citizenship status. Infants can literally fly the day they are born, flown in the America lately? How long can he stay, that is one problem. And the biggest problem will still be the state of the Russian medical facilities and their arcane ways of neonatal care. No father allowed, better yet, no one allowed. Taking the children away from the mother and leaving them alone, and only brining them for feeding only. Wrapping the children up to prevent any limb movement until like the age of 6 months. In many ways our prison system and our farm systems are more hospitable then Russian birthing homes.

[shikarnov 7]

I have no idea what the immigration consequences would be, so someone else might want to comment about that. But as far as the actual having a child in Russia goes, I wouldn't let that stop you. Women have been having babies for a couple years now, and most get by with no complications. That baby's going to come out whether she's in a hospital or the middle of Grand Central Station. If she's a young healthy woman, all the Doctor or midwife is going to do is play catcher.

In all seriousness, if having your child in Russia is important to her mom, then you can bet the farm that it's important to her. And if it's important to her, then your excuse that the medical facilities are sub-par is going to fly like a pregnant pole vaulter. She's first going to be angry that you are denying her this, and also that you're insulting her country's medical facilities. (It may be true, and she may even be critical of them herself, but as the foreigner you must tread much more lightly when it comes to these things.)

Unless she has a medical history that would make child birth complicated, you should really reconsider letting her have her child in Russia.

In fairness, after two years with her, Ira knows my opinions about this country inside and out. She doesn't like it, but she knows that more often than not, I'm right.

Even the WHO agrees with me on this one - Russia's infant mortality rate is more than 2.5X higher than in the US. Link.

But statistics aside, my thinking is really governed by experiences -- one of a close friend, and the other frighteningly personal...

My friend, who was 26 when she had her first child 4 months early... There was no apparent reason. Nothing showed up in prenatal care... There was no injury... And the kid spent months in an incubator with doctors fighting every day for his life. Today he's pushing three years, and while he's a bit small for his age, he's still in fantastic shape and is looking forward to a long life. He'd also be deader than a doornail if he was born in Ivanovo.

And my own experience is thus: I had a bought of severe chest pains one night last year. We called for Skoraya Pomish, and the ambulance took an hour to get to me (this is in a city of 400,000). When they arrived, one EMT was noticeably drunk, the other was a dirty elderly woman who couldn't have possibly had the strength to do CPR for more than a few minutes. The echo they did was abnormal, so they took me to the hospital in their filthy smokey smelly ambulance. They hadn't even any defibrillator with them or in the ambulance. And it's not like they didn't know they were coming to treat a heart patient.

In the hospital (if you can call it that), the doctors were all unkempt, dirty, clearly groggy from being woken up. The walls were disgusting, wires everywhere, dust and debris under every radiator and by every window sill. Beds weren't clean, doors didn't shut. The staff was as far from professional or discreet as I'd ever known. If I wasn't sick before going to that hospital, I surely would get something while there. I survived the experience, obviously, but I after days of unproductive poking and prodding at various clinics in Ivanovo, I had to fly back to NY to get a real diagnosis that was made after the docs looked inside me with modern tools (what a novel idea!) and found a nerve pinch in my neck that ended up causing all kinds of stress in my chest area.

Believe me -- I will NEVER allow my baby to be born in the kinds of conditions present in Ivanovo, or with those kinds of idiots calling themselves doctors. Ira knows it. She also knows why. And she knows the experience that shaped my opinion.

I know that women have been having babies for a long time. And I know western medicine isn't the be all and end all of medical science -- but when something goes wrong with your baby's health (and every time a woman goes into labor, the roulette wheel starts spinning), where would you rather be? Honestly...

Sorry for the rant.. But Ivanovo medicine is really a sore topic for me ...

Z

[shikarnov 7]

[deleted - unproductive reply on my part]

Edited December 19, 2007 by zhenya.shikarnov

[shikarnov 7]

As the father of 3 children, I can tell you that babies are a lot tougher than new parents think. They travel fine, better than adults actually, although might make other passengers cranky. And I'm pretty sure it's going to be a lot cheaper to have a baby in Russia than the U.S., but I could be wrong.

Bottom line is that it needs to be a joint decision. I'm the worst person in the world to ask for relationship advice, but if she's feeling disrespected and excluded from this very important decisions, only bad things can happen. Not what you want for what should be one of the happiest moments in a couple's lives.

Well, I agree that it trying to respect everybody's feelings is important... And this is all a few years off anyway... And with luck, Ira's mom can be in the US with us to experience the miracle whenever it happens.

I just figured I'd ask about all this now, since I've heard many horror stories about the difficulty of getting family in for visits or even to live.

Z

[mox 298]

I just figured I'd ask about all this now, since I've heard many horror stories about the difficulty of getting family in for visits or even to live.

Fair enough, sorry for dragging the discussion from your main point. As for getting family over here, I think it's important that your spouse and her family know that their chances of getting a Visa are pretty weak. Definitely try, but don't give them too much hope. If they get the Visa, it will be a pleasant surprise.

[shikarnov 7]

Fair enough, sorry for dragging the discussion from your main point.

It's all good. Sometimes a good rant helps vent some stress anyway.

As for getting family over here, I think it's important that your spouse and her family know that their chances of getting a Visa are pretty weak. Definitely try, but don't give them too much hope. If they get the Visa, it will be a pleasant surprise.

That's what I've heard -- it's a real bummer though. In addition to making Ira happy, I'd really like to have her mom around for a while too. She's a great woman, who I'm only now really getting to know (learning Russian is really really hard).

Z