Muslim Woman and the recent death

[Saddle Bronc 124]

In all the discussion of religion on this thread, there is another factor which appears to have been missed. The crime occured in Mississauga, considered an exurb of Pigtown (Toronto)--an area which has been for the last two decades a magnet for the worst chopfracks among immigrants to Canada!

[Fandango 1,440]

Do NOT make me, and I can, will, and have time, list wrongs that are done by "Christians" that have nothing to do with the Christian way. There is a difference between true Christianity and how Christians act and there is a difference between Islam and how Muslims act.

Please do. Because that's oh so relevant to this discussion.

Acting like there is not a current day HUGE DISPARITY of how women are treated in comparison to the power men hold over them in non Western Islam, or traditionalist new Westerners is not going to change anything. What is the root of it? I sure as hell don't know. It's not a case of 'Islam is evil' but in fact, Islam is being used widely as the excuse for tons of the world's atrocities. Why is it being allowed to be so misinterpreted? How is it justifiable to use 'Islam' as the reason for torturing and mutilating women? Highlighting the odd Christian monster isn't going to mitigate the problem of women being treated as chattel. Ignoring it, or finger pointing to 'well the Christians are just as messed up' doesn't do anything.

But please, list the wrongs by Christians. Cos that sounded like a threat up there, and I can never keep my mouth shut.

[♥Sora_9_Dam3a♥ 0]

i didn't read through all the posts really....but i just want to make it clear that all those actions taken towards women in the Middle East and North Africa...NOT the "Muslim World"...are all against Islam...

yes, it does happen, sadlyy...but it has nothing to do with the religion...

circumcision was done by the Ancient Egyptians and it is a practice that's been carried on over the years...there are different types of circumcision...some do it for hygiene...they say if you remove a tinyyyyy bit, its equivalent to male circumcision...

other types are meant to completely prevent the woman from having sexual pleasure and may even make sex painful for her...

when the Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] was asked about circumcision, he answered [i'm paraphrasing btw] "if you wish to perform circumcision for HYGIENICAL reasons, don't go too deep, as the ####### is important for the woman's sexual pleasure as well as her husband's" Sadly, culture overpowers religion in Egypt and for that reason, it was practiced for centuries...the presidents wife, susan mubarak has recently led a campaign to shed light on the subject and i believe egypt has recently banned female circumcision..you can google it..

also, Islam does give women rights, but they are taken away by men...this isn't something new..alsoo...if you read about Islam in detail, you would learn that according to the Quran, a woman should have an orgasm before her husband...and it is written in the Quran..I can't recall exactly which verse, but its in the 4th chapter, I believe. So a man who is practicing Islam as it is meant to be practiced, gives his wife her rights...unfortunately, these are not the men that we hear about all the time..

oh!! and about rape victims being punished as opposed to their attackers....that is NOT in Islam!!...what sense does it make for a girl to be punished for something that some idiot did?? the only reason why girls are killed for this in the MENA countries is because if a girl's hymen isn't intact, she's not considered a virgin and therefore will be a disgrace to her family...again, this is NOT in Islam!! and the men who carry out these actions are NOT thinking of their religious duty..they're simply protecting their reputation...

also, just to add in, about adultery...those stories you hear about stoning and giving 100 lashes to those who've committed adultery....i'm not sure what the exact punishment is for adultery in Islam...let's just say its 100 lashes....

yes, there is a punishment for adultery...BUT...how does one prove that it has happened?? No one ever looks into that...In order to carry out this punishment two that committed this act must confess to it..or, they need 4 eye witnesses who witnessed it from beginning to end!!!!!!!! 4 witnesses!!!!!!!!!!!! how the hell would you ever find 4 eyewitnesses to this?? you never would...therefore, you can never punish them!! even if its so obvious that it happened, we humans have absolutely NO power to punish another human for a wrong they've done...so the rule is set by God, give an adulterer 100 lashes---this makes people fearful of committing the act...its a rule set to keep order...if there was not punishment for it...people would be doing it left and right...--BUT, God also sets the rule saying that in order to punish these people, they must confess or you need FOUR witnesses....this is there to remind everyone that we're mere creatures of God and we have absolutely NO right whatsoever to punish someone for a wrong they've done...

..sorry for babbling on for so long...i'm not proof reading...so, sorry for any mistakes..take care..

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Do NOT make me, and I can, will, and have time, list wrongs that are done by "Christians" that have nothing to do with the Christian way. There is a difference between true Christianity and how Christians act and there is a difference between Islam and how Muslims act.

Please do. Because that's oh so relevant to this discussion.

Acting like there is not a current day HUGE DISPARITY of how women are treated in comparison to the power men hold over them in non Western Islam, or traditionalist new Westerners is not going to change anything. What is the root of it? I sure as hell don't know. It's not a case of 'Islam is evil' but in fact, Islam is being used widely as the excuse for tons of the world's atrocities. Why is it being allowed to be so misinterpreted? How is it justifiable to use 'Islam' as the reason for torturing and mutilating women? Highlighting the odd Christian monster isn't going to mitigate the problem of women being treated as chattel. Ignoring it, or finger pointing to 'well the Christians are just as messed up' doesn't do anything.

But please, list the wrongs by Christians. Cos that sounded like a threat up there, and I can never keep my mouth shut.

I'd like to see someone force Lisa to wear a burqa or hijab. Someone would be missing some teeth..... and it wouldn't be Lisa.

[Ban Hammer 13,573]

I'd like to see someone force Lisa to wear a burqa or hijab. Someone would be missing some teeth..... and it wouldn't be Lisa.

[Fandango 1,440]

Do NOT make me, and I can, will, and have time, list wrongs that are done by "Christians" that have nothing to do with the Christian way. There is a difference between true Christianity and how Christians act and there is a difference between Islam and how Muslims act.

Please do. Because that's oh so relevant to this discussion.

Acting like there is not a current day HUGE DISPARITY of how women are treated in comparison to the power men hold over them in non Western Islam, or traditionalist new Westerners is not going to change anything. What is the root of it? I sure as hell don't know. It's not a case of 'Islam is evil' but in fact, Islam is being used widely as the excuse for tons of the world's atrocities. Why is it being allowed to be so misinterpreted? How is it justifiable to use 'Islam' as the reason for torturing and mutilating women? Highlighting the odd Christian monster isn't going to mitigate the problem of women being treated as chattel. Ignoring it, or finger pointing to 'well the Christians are just as messed up' doesn't do anything.

But please, list the wrongs by Christians. Cos that sounded like a threat up there, and I can never keep my mouth shut.

I'd like to see someone force Lisa to wear a burqa or hijab. Someone would be missing some teeth..... and it wouldn't be Lisa.

aww, I'm all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Alt name 1]

Not smart. I'd start with how many times i got my azz beat in jesus name but no matter. Well, tons of the world's atrocities, lemme see and just flick out some statistics - bleh

USA:

95% victims of domestic violence, women

Every 9 seconds, US, woman assaulted and beaten

4,000,000 women a year, assaulted by partners (please start singing the star spangled banner if you want)

Every day, 4 women killed by husband or boyfriend

93% of those killed above (husband or boyfriend) had been battered by them

25% of ALL crime, is domestic assault

#1 cause, emergency room visits by women? guess? domestic assault

Above injury, greater than car accidents, mugging, and random rape combined

Every 5 years, family violence kills more women than the Vietnam war

Do you REALLY, really want to know how many killed, how many wars, how many have died or been killed in the name of christianity, or can you accept that BOTH beliefs have been used to further the causes of evil ? please do answer, we'll discuss more.

Do NOT make me, and I can, will, and have time, list wrongs that are done by "Christians" that have nothing to do with the Christian way. There is a difference between true Christianity and how Christians act and there is a difference between Islam and how Muslims act.

Please do. Because that's oh so relevant to this discussion.

Acting like there is not a current day HUGE DISPARITY of how women are treated in comparison to the power men hold over them in non Western Islam, or traditionalist new Westerners is not going to change anything. What is the root of it? I sure as hell don't know. It's not a case of 'Islam is evil' but in fact, Islam is being used widely as the excuse for tons of the world's atrocities. Why is it being allowed to be so misinterpreted? How is it justifiable to use 'Islam' as the reason for torturing and mutilating women? Highlighting the odd Christian monster isn't going to mitigate the problem of women being treated as chattel. Ignoring it, or finger pointing to 'well the Christians are just as messed up' doesn't do anything.

But please, list the wrongs by Christians. Cos that sounded like a threat up there, and I can never keep my mouth shut.

[Alt name 1]

I, after louisiana, alabama, alaska, and texas, am dying and wishing someone to say something to my wifey for choosing to wear a hajib. Waiting for that (havent had that much excitement since the gulf war)

I'd like to see someone force Lisa to wear a burqa or hijab. Someone would be missing some teeth..... and it wouldn't be Lisa.

[Alt name 1]

Do you understand that the people in this Kaffir place do not care? They have sucked and swallowed their televisions as I used to do

Asaalom

i didn't read through all the posts really....but i just want to make it clear that all those actions taken towards women in the Middle East and North Africa...NOT the "Muslim World"...are all against Islam...

yes, it does happen, sadlyy...but it has nothing to do with the religion...

circumcision was done by the Ancient Egyptians and it is a practice that's been carried on over the years...there are different types of circumcision...some do it for hygiene...they say if you remove a tinyyyyy bit, its equivalent to male circumcision...

other types are meant to completely prevent the woman from having sexual pleasure and may even make sex painful for her...

when the Prophet Muhammad [pbuh] was asked about circumcision, he answered [i'm paraphrasing btw] "if you wish to perform circumcision for HYGIENICAL reasons, don't go too deep, as the ####### is important for the woman's sexual pleasure as well as her husband's" Sadly, culture overpowers religion in Egypt and for that reason, it was practiced for centuries...the presidents wife, susan mubarak has recently led a campaign to shed light on the subject and i believe egypt has recently banned female circumcision..you can google it..

also, Islam does give women rights, but they are taken away by men...this isn't something new..alsoo...if you read about Islam in detail, you would learn that according to the Quran, a woman should have an orgasm before her husband...and it is written in the Quran..I can't recall exactly which verse, but its in the 4th chapter, I believe. So a man who is practicing Islam as it is meant to be practiced, gives his wife her rights...unfortunately, these are not the men that we hear about all the time..

oh!! and about rape victims being punished as opposed to their attackers....that is NOT in Islam!!...what sense does it make for a girl to be punished for something that some idiot did?? the only reason why girls are killed for this in the MENA countries is because if a girl's hymen isn't intact, she's not considered a virgin and therefore will be a disgrace to her family...again, this is NOT in Islam!! and the men who carry out these actions are NOT thinking of their religious duty..they're simply protecting their reputation...

also, just to add in, about adultery...those stories you hear about stoning and giving 100 lashes to those who've committed adultery....i'm not sure what the exact punishment is for adultery in Islam...let's just say its 100 lashes....

yes, there is a punishment for adultery...BUT...how does one prove that it has happened?? No one ever looks into that...In order to carry out this punishment two that committed this act must confess to it..or, they need 4 eye witnesses who witnessed it from beginning to end!!!!!!!! 4 witnesses!!!!!!!!!!!! how the hell would you ever find 4 eyewitnesses to this?? you never would...therefore, you can never punish them!! even if its so obvious that it happened, we humans have absolutely NO power to punish another human for a wrong they've done...so the rule is set by God, give an adulterer 100 lashes---this makes people fearful of committing the act...its a rule set to keep order...if there was not punishment for it...people would be doing it left and right...--BUT, God also sets the rule saying that in order to punish these people, they must confess or you need FOUR witnesses....this is there to remind everyone that we're mere creatures of God and we have absolutely NO right whatsoever to punish someone for a wrong they've done...

..sorry for babbling on for so long...i'm not proof reading...so, sorry for any mistakes..take care..

[Fandango 1,440]

Not smart. I'd start with how many times i got my azz beat in jesus name but no matter. Well, tons of the world's atrocities, lemme see and just flick out some statistics - bleh

USA:

95% victims of domestic violence, women

Every 9 seconds, US, woman assaulted and beaten

4,000,000 women a year, assaulted by partners (please start singing the star spangled banner if you want)

Every day, 4 women killed by husband or boyfriend

93% of those killed above (husband or boyfriend) had been battered by them

25% of ALL crime, is domestic assault

#1 cause, emergency room visits by women? guess? domestic assault

Above injury, greater than car accidents, mugging, and random rape combined

Every 5 years, family violence kills more women than the Vietnam war

Do you REALLY, really want to know how many killed, how many wars, how many have died or been killed in the name of christianity, or can you accept that BOTH beliefs have been used to further the causes of evil ? please do answer, we'll discuss more.

Nuh uh, that ain't gonna work. First of all, you made the claim of 'atrocities by Christians'....NOWHERE in any of those bogus generalities did you link it specifically to Christianity or beliefs by Christians. So try again if you must, but let it actually reflect whatever argument you're making. Oh, and cite your sources too.

But you're missing my point anyway, because no matter what stats you pull up about Christians, that does not somehow mitigate the atrocities committed on MENA women in the name of Islam. Now I've already said I don't know what the catalyst is, I don't think Islam is inherently evil, but it is misused oh so often to justify unspeakable things. That is a problem in and of itself, apart from anything else. Yes, domestic violence is also a problem....guess what....it's not specifically a Christian problem....but you're the only one trying to draw this ridiculous 'Christians do evil too!' parallel...

as.if.that.changes.anything.

Here's your parting gift, thanks for playin.

I, after louisiana, alabama, alaska, and texas, am dying and wishing someone to say something to my wifey for choosing to wear a hajib. Waiting for that (havent had that much excitement since the gulf war)

I'd like to see someone force Lisa to wear a burqa or hijab. Someone would be missing some teeth..... and it wouldn't be Lisa.

Once again, missed the point....your wife is free to do what she pleases and what she chooses....something many women sadly do not have....

[Ban Hammer 13,573]

Do you understand that the people in this Kaffir place do not care? They have sucked and swallowed their televisions as I used to do

Asaalom

do not use that word again.

[Emo 0]

I just wanted to shed light on this subject. It made me think of the girl that was recently killed in canada.

I am muslim myself, and i love being muslim IN THE US. Because i can practice my faith correctly without the pressure of culture. And i personally used to always deny these cruel occurences, but it was because I was uneducated. this is real. And We the muslim woman have to make a stand.

Everyone I know these are long, but please take time to read

http://polyzine.com/arabwomen.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/4CDF1CEC...fed7da6c983.pdf

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), an estimated 168,000 women and girls in the United States had either undergone Female genital cutting (FGC) or were at risk for FGC in 1990. Of these, 48,000 were girls younger than 18 years old

http://www.4women.gov/faq/fgc.htm

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[Alt name 1]

In the name of the "christian god"

Earl of charlemagne, 4500, for unwilling to convert, 4500, men, women, children, 782 AD

Steding, Germany, unwilling to pay church taxes, 11,000 (also men, women, children)

15th century Poland, 1019 churches and 7987n villages by the "knights of order" victims unknown

1095-1098, first crusade, antiocha conquered, 100,000 turks....men, women, children (Fulcher of Chartes commented "the christians did no harm to the women in their tents other than run their lances through their bellies")

7/19/1099 a comment, after jerusalem was captured...60,000 jews, muslims men women and children killed, the idle comment...."there in front of solomons temple there was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes, happily and crying for joy our people marched to our savior's tomb to honor it and pay off our debt of gratitude"

Same "battle" comment by the archbishop of tyre ""It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished."

I stop there, should i list more, or even list what our country was founded on?

Not smart. I'd start with how many times i got my azz beat in jesus name but no matter. Well, tons of the world's atrocities, lemme see and just flick out some statistics - bleh

USA:

95% victims of domestic violence, women

Every 9 seconds, US, woman assaulted and beaten

4,000,000 women a year, assaulted by partners (please start singing the star spangled banner if you want)

Every day, 4 women killed by husband or boyfriend

93% of those killed above (husband or boyfriend) had been battered by them

25% of ALL crime, is domestic assault

#1 cause, emergency room visits by women? guess? domestic assault

Above injury, greater than car accidents, mugging, and random rape combined

Every 5 years, family violence kills more women than the Vietnam war

Do you REALLY, really want to know how many killed, how many wars, how many have died or been killed in the name of christianity, or can you accept that BOTH beliefs have been used to further the causes of evil ? please do answer, we'll discuss more.

Nuh uh, that ain't gonna work. First of all, you made the claim of 'atrocities by Christians'....NOWHERE in any of those bogus generalities did you link it specifically to Christianity or beliefs by Christians. So try again if you must, but let it actually reflect whatever argument you're making. Oh, and cite your sources too.

But you're missing my point anyway, because no matter what stats you pull up about Christians, that does not somehow mitigate the atrocities committed on MENA women in the name of Islam. Now I've already said I don't know what the catalyst is, I don't think Islam is inherently evil, but it is misused oh so often to justify unspeakable things. That is a problem in and of itself, apart from anything else. Yes, domestic violence is also a problem....guess what....it's not specifically a Christian problem....but you're the only one trying to draw this ridiculous 'Christians do evil too!' parallel...

as.if.that.changes.anything.

Here's your parting gift, thanks for playin.

I, after louisiana, alabama, alaska, and texas, am dying and wishing someone to say something to my wifey for choosing to wear a hajib. Waiting for that (havent had that much excitement since the gulf war)

I'd like to see someone force Lisa to wear a burqa or hijab. Someone would be missing some teeth..... and it wouldn't be Lisa.

Once again, missed the point....your wife is free to do what she pleases and what she chooses....something many women sadly do not have....

[JODO 2]

SHUT THE ####### UP

[Alt name 1]

Kaffir

I'm a texan, cajun, alaskan and i can use what word i want my friend. I do wish please, bring it

Do you understand that the people in this Kaffir place do not care? They have sucked and swallowed their televisions as I used to do

Asaalom

do not use that word again.

You wish

SHUT THE ####### UP