In a really sticky bind and i need some advice

[Martin + Amie 0]

"California does recognize a valid driver license that is issued by a foreign jurisdiction (country, state, territory) of which the license holder is a resident."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#international

Cal Veh Code § 12505(e)::

Subject to Section 12504[Nonresident minors], a person over the age of 16 years who is a resident of a foreign jurisdiction other than a state, territory, or possession of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or Canada, having a valid driver's license issued to him or her by any other foreign jurisdiction having licensing standards deemed by the Department of Motor Vehicles equivalent to those of this state, may operate a motor vehicle in this state without obtaining a license from the department, except that he or she shall obtain a license before being employed for compensation by another for the purpose of driving a motor vehicle on the highways.

Just a small note to the above. I think there is a time limit on how long they let you go on the foreign drivers license.

Is it even possible to get a full driving license in 10 days considering I would need to not only take the written exam and pass it and then get a driving test appointment and wait for that? I think thats a really small window.

I did some more research, and I stand corrected to the above post. I think they can't get you for the lack of a license per the following:

"Foreign Driver's License Holders - California

If you already possess a valid driver license issued by another state DMV or another country, you are legally allowed to drive in California until your license expires or you become a resident. If you qualify for California residency, you are required to obtain a California drivers license within ten days. In order to be eligible for a California license, you will be required to visit your local Department of Motor Vehicles office and pass the traffic laws and signs examination. If you possess a license issued by another country, you will also be required to take a driving test. If your license was issued by another state, you will probably be able to avoid the on-road test."

http://driversed.com/DMV/california-foreign-drivers.aspx

So as long as your UK drivers license is valid, I believe they cant press you on that one.

Hope this helps.

This is fantastic news, however i am unclear on one thing. The paragraph contains the text "If you qualify for California residency, you are required to obtain a California drivers license within ten days". Do i qualify for California residency if i am awaiting approval for AOS? Or does this sentence mean, WHEN I AM APPROVED RESIDENCY i have 10 days to get one?

I don't believe you qualify for residency until you have a GC or EAD (since the I-94 is expired). That's why I think you were legit on the UK drivers license (as long as the UK one is still valid).

Agreed,

If you are seeking residency, then you would have had 10 days, right? and you didn't apply or do whatever you needed to do within the 10 days. A k-1 is a non-immigrant visa. I know I'm splitting hairs here, but I wouldn't push for that right now because you don't want anything going on your CA driving record which at this point you don't have and a second offense will carry a much higher penalty. (not trying to wish anything on you).

what else did the lawyer say? If you don't mind me asking .

Taking pictures is a very good idea, and you finding out why you were pulled over in the first place, aim for a dismissal if possible.

Is it even possible to get a full driving license in 10 days considering i would need to arrange and pass a written exam and then make an appointment for a driving exam. Kind of a small window no? 10 days in nothing.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Martin + Amie

[Martin + Amie 0]

Hi, Martin

It's what constitutes residency that's tricky. I think you're in a sort of limbo because you're not a visitor from the UK, and you may not be considered a UK resident anymore. Thus, one could make the argument that you're not a UK resident, and therefore your UK license isn't valid because you live in California (that is, assuming that the validity of the UK license is based on being a resident of that country). Of course, you're not U.S. resident yet, but an applicant. I'm guessing that the 10-days rule would apply to someone who moved to CA from out of state.

What you need to show the DMV to get a license makes no sense at all. I had a look at the CA DMV site, and there is something on the list about an I-797 (it just says "approved petition," whatever that means). Did you try that? (Sorry if you've already mentioned this.)

A lot of people in this gray area of AOS have had trouble getting drivers licenses. It seems ludicrous that you could get in legal trouble because of the murkiness of what you're required to produce to get a license. There was a thread a couple of months ago started by an English guy living in Louisiana who had a valid EAD and an NOA for the I-485. He was under the impression that he could drive on the UK license and took his time seeing about obtaining a Louisiana license. As it turned out, the Louisiana DMV wouldn't issue him one because his EAD was expiring in less than six months! I'm a geek and actually read the Louisiana DMV site, and it sounds like they should have issued him a license with his EAD and NOA for the I-485, but the jokers there just didn't get it.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. I'd try to limit your driving until you get your EAD or green card, because I think that the CA legal system may consider you as driving w/o a license even though the DMV won't allow you to take the test.

Of course, if the DUI thing is an issue, that certainly would complicate things. I hope things work out for you!

When you say it says something about an I-797 do you mean the approval notice telling me that my AOS application was approved? If so i havent received this yet. All I have are notices of action which state that my applications were received and that they are being processed. If your referring to my K1 Approval notice, i have that.

[Martin + Amie 0]

Martin,

I am brazilian, and my I-94 is valid till the end on december. I already applied for my AOS and I am waiting for my GC interview now.

I didn't know I should have gotten a SSN before I got married, when I found that out, was too late... Anyways..

I live in California and I am driving with my valid brazilian license and my passport, no problem. Although I was never pulled over by a cop.

But before I started driving, I sent lots of emails to the DMV, the Polic Department, and the answer from DMV was that it's ok for me to drive with my DL from Brazil and my passport, but it will be always up to the cop who stops me, to say it's ok or not. Then I got the response from the Police Department, and they said, yes you can DRive with your DL from Brazil and passport, no problem.

Plus, I went to DMV and got the driver's book and keep it in the car. So, if just in case a cop stops me, I will show him that I am supported by the law. Some people say we can drive for only one year, but as it's written on the book, as long as your DL from your country is valid, you can drive.

One think I had to so though, was to include my name on the car insurance.

I think the issue is that cops dont actually know the law themselves. Like i mentioned before i got pulled over for a speeding ticket 3 weeks ago and the guy questioned my license but let me go. He didnt know what to do or say. Do you have written confirmation from the DMV that explains you are able to drive? My second question is did you tell the DMV that you were in the process of a visa application or AOS because they could have presumed you were a tourist in which it is perfectly legal to drive on a foreign license.

I am going to call DMV Irvine and ask some questions. I will keep you posted.

Thanks for your reply.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

When you say it says something about an I-797 do you mean the approval notice telling me that my AOS application was approved? If so i havent received this yet. All I have are notices of action which state that my applications were received and that they are being processed. If your referring to my K1 Approval notice, i have that.

Have a look at http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#BDLP, second-to-last bullet under Birth date verification and legal presence requirements. It sounds vague to me, but maybe there's a certain type of visa for which an I-797 NOA is the important document.

I had a look at our various NOAs, and they're all I-797C except for the approved K1 petition. However, using that for a license wouldn't have worked because it was just a confirmation that all the information was there. The K1 wasn't actually issued for a few months.

It's all so confusing.

Maybe you could try going to the DMV with your AOS I-797C and see what they say. Print out the above page from their Web site and confidently declare, "This is my I-797!"

The cops thing is really the problematic aspect of all this. As you've gathered, they're not experts in the immigration/foreign license situation, and even if it turns out that it's perfectly fine to drive on a UK license until you have the proper paperwork for a CA license, you still have to deal with the headache of explaining everything. And perhaps going "downtown" if you encounter a cop w/ an attitude (not in short supply in LA, I don't think!).

Sorry, I don't think my posts have been very helpful!

[desert_fox 32]

Dont confuse federal immigration "residency" with CA state residency. If you have an address and job in CA, you are a state resident for tax purposes. Even illegals can be CA residents. The state doesnt care how you entered the country. They have to pay their CA income tax every year. If you are a resident according to CA, then you need a CA license withi ten days.

[rebeccajo 14]

Hmmmm.

I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs wondering about something.

Martin, you arrived in the US on January 1, 2007. When did you file for your adjustment?

Edited December 15, 2007 by rebeccajo

[Martin + Amie 0]

Dont confuse federal immigration "residency" with CA state residency. If you have an address and job in CA, you are a state resident for tax purposes. Even illegals can be CA residents. The state doesnt care how you entered the country. They have to pay their CA income tax every year. If you are a resident according to CA, then you need a CA license withi ten days.

I may have a california address but i have no job here yet as i havent got my EAD yet and according to everyone i have spoke too, the DMV and attorney's i am considered Out of status which is not a resident. Is it not correct that if i am a resident i am allowed to leave the country whenever i please? Right now i cant until i receive my AP.

[desert_fox 32]

Dont confuse federal immigration "residency" with CA state residency. If you have an address and job in CA, you are a state resident for tax purposes. Even illegals can be CA residents. The state doesnt care how you entered the country. They have to pay their CA income tax every year. If you are a resident according to CA, then you need a CA license withi ten days.

I may have a california address but i have no job here yet as i havent got my EAD yet and according to everyone i have spoke too, the DMV and attorney's i am considered Out of status which is not a resident. Is it not correct that if i am a resident i am allowed to leave the country whenever i please? Right now i cant until i receive my AP.

???

Are you talking about federal immigration residency???

Being a CA resident has nothing to do with this....being a CA resident means that you have established your home in CA...which entitles you to pay CA state income tax, requires a CA drivers license, and lets you register to vote in CA if you are also a citizan. Every person who lives in this country is a resident of some state. YTou could move tomorrow to Nevada and now you would be a NV resident, and required to get a NV drivers license. Dont confuse the two...federal and state.

The state of CA could care less if you traveled tomorrow, or left the country...its not their concern.

[Martin + Amie 0]

Dont confuse federal immigration "residency" with CA state residency. If you have an address and job in CA, you are a state resident for tax purposes. Even illegals can be CA residents. The state doesnt care how you entered the country. They have to pay their CA income tax every year. If you are a resident according to CA, then you need a CA license withi ten days.

I may have a california address but i have no job here yet as i havent got my EAD yet and according to everyone i have spoke too, the DMV and attorney's i am considered Out of status which is not a resident. Is it not correct that if i am a resident i am allowed to leave the country whenever i please? Right now i cant until i receive my AP.

???

Are you talking about federal immigration residency???

Being a CA resident has nothing to do with this....being a CA resident means that you have established your home in CA...which entitles you to pay CA state income tax, requires a CA drivers license, and lets you register to vote in CA if you are also a citizan. Every person who lives in this country is a resident of some state. YTou could move tomorrow to Nevada and now you would be a NV resident, and required to get a NV drivers license. Dont confuse the two...federal and state.

The state of CA could care less if you traveled tomorrow, or left the country...its not their concern.

I am talking about both. You said if i was a resident i am required to pay income tax to the state of california, however if i have no EAD to get employment in order to pay income tax am i still a resident? In addition to that they refused me a drivers license because i dont have an approved AOS application. Everything is pointing to me not being a resident right now.

[Martin + Amie 0]

Dont confuse federal immigration "residency" with CA state residency. If you have an address and job in CA, you are a state resident for tax purposes. Even illegals can be CA residents. The state doesnt care how you entered the country. They have to pay their CA income tax every year. If you are a resident according to CA, then you need a CA license withi ten days.

I may have a california address but i have no job here yet as i havent got my EAD yet and according to everyone i have spoke too, the DMV and attorney's i am considered Out of status which is not a resident. Is it not correct that if i am a resident i am allowed to leave the country whenever i please? Right now i cant until i receive my AP.

???

Are you talking about federal immigration residency???

Being a CA resident has nothing to do with this....being a CA resident means that you have established your home in CA...which entitles you to pay CA state income tax, requires a CA drivers license, and lets you register to vote in CA if you are also a citizan. Every person who lives in this country is a resident of some state. YTou could move tomorrow to Nevada and now you would be a NV resident, and required to get a NV drivers license. Dont confuse the two...federal and state.

The state of CA could care less if you traveled tomorrow, or left the country...its not their concern.

I am talking about both. You said if i was a resident i am required to pay income tax to the state of california, however if i have no EAD to get employment in order to pay income tax am i still a resident? In addition to that they refused me a drivers license because i dont have an approved AOS application. Everything is pointing to me not being a resident right now.

In addition, i dont have any right to vote right now which even more so points to the fact that i am not a resident yet. Am i wrong?

[desert_fox 32]

I am talking about both. You said if i was a resident i am required to pay income tax to the state of california, however if i have no EAD to get employment in order to pay income tax am i still a resident? In addition to that they refused me a drivers license because i dont have an approved AOS application. Everything is pointing to me not being a resident right now.

you are a CA resident...they cannot give you a license because of the FEDERAL REAL-ID Act that was imposed upon the states regarding needing to verify that you have legal status here in the US before they can issue you a license. CA is the only state that can give you a license as you are a resident of CA. If you get a job tomorrow, you will pay CA income tax because you are a CA resident. Once again, dont confuse Federal and State laws.

I seriously doubt that they can fine you for driving on a foreign license since you cannot get a CA license...something for the court to decide...catch-22

you are a resident of the state in which you have established an abode.

Incidently, this is precisley why I left CA....I live in NV now....NO STATE income tax!!!!

[Martin + Amie 0]

I am talking about both. You said if i was a resident i am required to pay income tax to the state of california, however if i have no EAD to get employment in order to pay income tax am i still a resident? In addition to that they refused me a drivers license because i dont have an approved AOS application. Everything is pointing to me not being a resident right now.

you are a CA resident...they cannot give you a license because of the FEDERAL REAL-ID Act that was imposed upon the states regarding needing to verify that you have legal status here in the US before they can issue you a license. CA is the only state that can give you a license as you are a resident of CA. If you get a job tomorrow, you will pay CA income tax because you are a CA resident. Once again, dont confuse Federal and State laws.

I seriously doubt that they can fine you for driving on a foreign license since you cannot get a CA license...something for the court to decide...catch-22

you are a resident of the state in which you have established an abode.

Incidently, this is precisley why I left CA....I live in NV now....NO STATE income tax!!!!

Thanks for your response desert fox it is greatly appreciated. Now i also have an update. As i was typing away with you guys in this forum a letter was sitting in my mailbox from Laguna Beach police station.

Inside the letter was a form with a DMV logo titled "AGE 21 AND OLDER - PAGE 3 - ADMINISTRATIVE PER SE SUSPENSION/REVOCATION ORDER AND TEMPORARY DRIVER LICENSE"

Its unbelievable, the form states its a temporary license however its not for licenses issued in a different country. It has no reference number or driving license number or anything else. It also says i can schedule a hearing with the DMV if i wish to discuss the circumstances of my arrest and whether i dispute the suspension. First of all they have nothing to suspend since i dont have a CA license. I called the number on the form and was directed to the DMV investigations department in Irvine. The guy said they might as well have given me a blank form. There is no DMV reference number, no DL number (because i dont have a CA license). Eventually he asked me to fax the form to him so he could see it himself and said he would get back to me Monday.

I have never felt like i was in limbo like this before. Anyone know about the form I am talking about?

[Jengles 0]

how can they suspend what u don't have...what are the laws in CA for first time offenders? Someone in a previous post had a link regarding immigration and DUI...I believe it said if the person's licsense was suspended then the person could be deported...someone correct me if I'm wrong

[patiently_waiting 0]

Forgive me for not reading every post and if this has been said already, excuse me. No state requires that you take a blood or breath test for alleged/suspected DUI of any sort. You can refuse the tests and most attorneys will tell you to refuse. The catch with that is that you will be taken into custdoy and will more than likely remain a minimum of 24 hours. 4 beers in 6 hours...depending on your weight and height and the beer... very ify at best. Good luck with all this. You do need to contact an attorney.

[Martin + Amie 0]

Hi Guys,

I have some good news. My blood test came back and I had a BAC of 0.04% which as you all know is way under the limit confirming my initial thoughts. I am so happy as I was starting to doubt my own judgement. Now that i am under a 0.08% does anyone have any idea what the districy attorney may do with me?

Any help is appreciated,