Muslim hero breaks up train beating

[Jenn! 918]

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

There are plenty of non-practicing believers. Belief has little to do with ritual.

Agreed. But why feel the need to say "I am of religion X" when you don't observe the rituals?

Reformed Jews do eat pork. They have concluded that the ritual tradition is not necessary or not true to the core beliefs.

Right, they split and called themselves something different because the previous label no longer fit them.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

Take Christianity, which at the very core is the believe that Jesus was God incarnate. While all Christian accept that as their core belief, they may not all believe in regarding the Bible as a literal edict from God. It's just like any other belief system or philosophy - there are varying understanding or beliefs within that system, but the core beliefs are static.

But religion isn't just about beliefs. Beliefs can exist without religion. To me, saying that you are of a certain religion should imply observance of all the tenets of that religion.

I guess we'd have to use an example ....how about contraception and the Roman Catholic Church? I read somewhere that over 80 percent of American Catholics use contraception which in contradiction to the Church's position. Does using contraception make them unworthy of following Christ? I don't think it does. Religion cannot and should not dictate every decision in our personal lives.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I would eat pork to save a life. Allah would understand.

Qur'an 16:115: He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than Allah has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Qur'an 2:173: He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.

[sereia 0]

not true about reform jews eating pork. some eat pork, some don't. you're still not supposed to eat pork. reform or not.

Edited December 14, 2007 by sereia

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Right, they split and called themselves something different because the previous label no longer fit them.

I think that's a cynical view of it. If a Reformed Jew believes and can reasonably rationalize why they don't follow some of old Jewish traditions without it taking away from their core beliefs, then they are followed the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law.

[Jenn! 918]

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

Take Christianity, which at the very core is the believe that Jesus was God incarnate. While all Christian accept that as their core belief, they may not all believe in regarding the Bible as a literal edict from God. It's just like any other belief system or philosophy - there are varying understanding or beliefs within that system, but the core beliefs are static.

But religion isn't just about beliefs. Beliefs can exist without religion. To me, saying that you are of a certain religion should imply observance of all the tenets of that religion.

I guess we'd have to use an example ....how about contraception and the Roman Catholic Church? I read somewhere that over 80 percent of American Catholics use contraception which in contradiction to the Church's position. Does using contraception make them unworthy of following Christ? I don't think it does. Religion cannot and should not dictate every decision in our personal lives.

I don't think it makes them unworthy of following Christ. But to follow Christ, I don't think one need label oneself as Catholic, or any defined Christian religion for that matter.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Jenn!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

There are plenty of non-practicing believers. Belief has little to do with ritual.

Agreed. But why feel the need to say "I am of religion X" when you don't observe the rituals?

Because the belief is separate from the rituals. You don't really need to do any of them to 'believe'.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

Take Christianity, which at the very core is the believe that Jesus was God incarnate. While all Christian accept that as their core belief, they may not all believe in regarding the Bible as a literal edict from God. It's just like any other belief system or philosophy - there are varying understanding or beliefs within that system, but the core beliefs are static.

But religion isn't just about beliefs. Beliefs can exist without religion. To me, saying that you are of a certain religion should imply observance of all the tenets of that religion.

I guess we'd have to use an example ....how about contraception and the Roman Catholic Church? I read somewhere that over 80 percent of American Catholics use contraception which in contradiction to the Church's position. Does using contraception make them unworthy of following Christ? I don't think it does. Religion cannot and should not dictate every decision in our personal lives.

I don't think it makes them unworthy of following Christ. But to follow Christ, I don't think one need label oneself as Catholic.

True, but the foundation of the Catholic faith is the belief in Christ...all of it's doctrine springs from that. If a religion such as the Catholic Church has doctrine that contradicts the very foundation that it is built on, then it becomes irrelevant.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[Jenn! 918]

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

There are plenty of non-practicing believers. Belief has little to do with ritual.

Agreed. But why feel the need to say "I am of religion X" when you don't observe the rituals?

Because the belief is separate from the rituals. You don't really need to do any of them to 'believe'.

I agree, you don't need to do any of them to believe. What's the point of being part of that *religion* though, since the religion means *both* the belief *and* the rituals?

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

Take Christianity, which at the very core is the believe that Jesus was God incarnate. While all Christian accept that as their core belief, they may not all believe in regarding the Bible as a literal edict from God. It's just like any other belief system or philosophy - there are varying understanding or beliefs within that system, but the core beliefs are static.

But religion isn't just about beliefs. Beliefs can exist without religion. To me, saying that you are of a certain religion should imply observance of all the tenets of that religion.

I guess we'd have to use an example ....how about contraception and the Roman Catholic Church? I read somewhere that over 80 percent of American Catholics use contraception which in contradiction to the Church's position. Does using contraception make them unworthy of following Christ? I don't think it does. Religion cannot and should not dictate every decision in our personal lives.

I don't think it makes them unworthy of following Christ. But to follow Christ, I don't think one need label oneself as Catholic.

True, but the foundation of the Catholic faith is the belief in Christ...all of it's doctrine springs from that. If a religion such as the Catholic Church has doctrine that contradicts the very foundation that it is built on, then it becomes irrelevant.

Did you just say that the Catholic Church is irrelevant?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Did you just say that the Catholic Church is irrelevant?

No. I'm saying that religious doctrine can never supercede or contradict the core belief(s).

Sorry for posting this twice, but this is a perfect example of following doctrine (the letter of the law) vs. keeping in line with the core beliefs (the spirit of the law)...

Then Jesus said to them: "You think you are smart! You ignore the commands of God so that you can follow your own teachings! Moses said, 'You must honor (respect) your father and mother.' Then Moses also said, 'Any person that says bad things to his father or mother must be killed.' But you teach that a person can say to his father or mother, 'I have something I could use to help you. But I will not use it to help you. I will give it to God.' You are telling that person that he does not have to do anything for his father or mother. So you are teaching that it is not important to do what God said. You think that it is more important to follow those rules you teach people. And you do many things like that."

Jesus cites an example of the law teachers' and Pharisees' hypocrisy in these verses. In this case, the hypocrisy was finding a legalistic rationale to withhold support from parents, thus disobeying one of the Ten Commandments. The brazenness of such rationalization of one of the ten bedrock truths of their existence just proves how deeply the practice of this kind of hypocrisy can become. Legalistic hypocrisy abounds in all sorts of religious groups and religious experience. Let's obey, not rationalize. Let's respond graciously to God's grace and not seek to work our way out of our responsibilities to each other and to him.

http://www.heartlight.org/wjd/mark/0427-wjd.html

Religion, therefore cannot be about following a set of rules and rituals. It is an imperfect vessel by which people can find guidance and support for their own personal spiritual journey.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

This is one of my biggest problems with religion. I don't understand observing a religion "cafeteria-style". What's the point of labeling yourself if only some of the characteristics of the label fit? But obviously not everyone feels the same. And if they want to call themselves "X", who am I to say "you're not really X" because you do such and such?

There are plenty of non-practicing believers. Belief has little to do with ritual.

Agreed. But why feel the need to say "I am of religion X" when you don't observe the rituals?

Because the belief is separate from the rituals. You don't really need to do any of them to 'believe'.

Belief in Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is central to Christian doctrine. Acts come second. Islam and Judaism are more legalistic; ritual and acts are demonstrations of belief in the One True God. Despite that distinction, belief is not separate from ritual for the orthodox of any Abrahamic faith.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Green-eyed girl