Supporting yourself w/o working...

[pushbrk 13,133]

The men I've known in my life all knew how they were going to support their brides before they proposed. A few boys weren't so wise. Perhaps you're a premature petitioner.

Yes, because as we all know, its ALWAYS the men who have to 'support' the women...

No need for pissy responses and personal attacks. It doesn't matter whether the OP is a woman. I'm writing about men and brides. Doesn't matter which one is which. If it isn't clear to them that I'm saying the couple needs to work together to have a plan before deciding to marry, then we're dealing with morons. Since I doubt that's the case, I'm thinking they can figure out I'm talking to both of them. I already posted that one of my daughters is the primary earner in her family, (even while pregnant) so you can put the women's lib gun back in your holster.

If the couple doesn't know how they are going to manage their living expenses, perhaps there's been a premature petitioning. It's not a value judgement. It's purely practical. If it's the woman who proposed marriage, my comment still stands. It matters not who instigated. Both the male and female agreed to marry. If the man's plan is for the wife to support him for a while that's a plan but it doesn't appear to be this couple's plan.

That's the biggest load of shite and you know it, Mike. Your first post to the OP referred to a MALE writer and so did the post Tracy quotes.

You're all about coming back to threads you've posted in if you are 'right' and hammering it into people that you are right? How about admitting when you are WRONG?

Or is this post more about your freaking value judgment instead of STRAIGHT TALK.......

I spoke of men in my post. I meant it. I did not refer to the OP except as "petitioner".

Please stop the personal attacks.

[rebeccajo 14]

...but I was wondering, RJ, is there something wrong with stating that a financial plan ( or at least having an idea) BEFORE the SO immigrates is a good idea for all concerned? Really that's my advise to the OP( and not preaching at all...).

The OP pretty much stated she doesn't have a plan at the moment. Pretty typical really for a college student used to just figuring out how to buy books next semester and pay the rent next month (and I can say that because I've got one home from school right at the moment).

I took the OP's question as looking for practical tips on what the SO could do to help support himself and ultimately the couple. Maybe that's not the way the government WANTS it to be when they ask USC's to complete the I864, but it's reality. For you, that included having Mark seek work before he got here.

[rebeccajo 14]

The men I've known in my life all knew how they were going to support their brides before they proposed. A few boys weren't so wise. Perhaps you're a premature petitioner.

It's not a personal attack. I can read. A B C. Learned it in grade school.

Get over yourself.

[pushbrk 13,133]

The men I've known in my life all knew how they were going to support their brides before they proposed. A few boys weren't so wise. Perhaps you're a premature petitioner.

It's not a personal attack. I can read. A B C. Learned it in grade school.

Get over yourself.

You are using convenient interpretation based on your agenda to bash me. "You" refers to the petitioner. "Men" refers to "men".

Your post was a personal attack that called me a liar. Knock it off.

[Caladan 19]

And I'm not advocating jumping into marriage while unemployed or without a plan, but the OP asked for advice on how to make a plan and was pretty much told 'wait until you're financially secure, like on your second or third spouse.'

No one said anything about a 2nd or 3rd spouse. If you cut that out of what you said, the rest is very sage advice. Get a full time job, save your money...possibly wait til you're done with uni......WHY are these considered bad things? No, it's not pleasant, and instant gratification is oh so much better...but at the end of the day, if the OP can't afford to support her fiance, and the fiance isn't 'tons o bucks' where it's not an issue...I can't see any happy happy way around this...short of living off others.

You're putting words in ppl's mouths, Caladan....and when did advocating saving, getting a higher paying job, waiting, and planning become bad things?

PS - the way I read the op was 'how did the foreign fiance support him/herself?' Because the OP said she couldn't support him. That's a roadblock, for sure...and sadly not one that 'love' can fix. Cos if you have the easy answer to 'how do you live in another country with no money, no job, and no one to support you?'....you need to write a book and sell it! It'll be a bestseller, for sure

I was being a bit hyperbolic (as I figured was obvious from context), but seriously, people here are acting like the OP is horribly irresponsible for asking how to plan. Or for getting engaged without being upper middle class first. Lots of people manage being right at poverty level, by taking a second job, or by saving like crazy people to tide them through a few months. Some people, like me, did it while in school. Would we be more financially secure if we waited the seven years or so it will likely take me to get tenure? Sure. Did we make it just fine now? Yup, and I don't think I was irresponsible because we don't own our home first. Some people move in with family. Not ideal, and not what I'd want but there are plenty of relationships that I don't think are ideal that other people manage to make work.

I'm not saying 'oh love will feed you' but you know, she actually got helpful answers on her other thread. Like considering a CR-1, which takes longer, but can allow him to find a job here right away. And rough estimates of what she should budget.

[pushbrk 13,133]

And I'm not advocating jumping into marriage while unemployed or without a plan, but the OP asked for advice on how to make a plan and was pretty much told 'wait until you're financially secure, like on your second or third spouse.'

No one said anything about a 2nd or 3rd spouse. If you cut that out of what you said, the rest is very sage advice. Get a full time job, save your money...possibly wait til you're done with uni......WHY are these considered bad things? No, it's not pleasant, and instant gratification is oh so much better...but at the end of the day, if the OP can't afford to support her fiance, and the fiance isn't 'tons o bucks' where it's not an issue...I can't see any happy happy way around this...short of living off others.

You're putting words in ppl's mouths, Caladan....and when did advocating saving, getting a higher paying job, waiting, and planning become bad things?

PS - the way I read the op was 'how did the foreign fiance support him/herself?' Because the OP said she couldn't support him. That's a roadblock, for sure...and sadly not one that 'love' can fix. Cos if you have the easy answer to 'how do you live in another country with no money, no job, and no one to support you?'....you need to write a book and sell it! It'll be a bestseller, for sure

I was being a bit hyperbolic (as I figured was obvious from context), but seriously, people here are acting like the OP is horribly irresponsible for asking how to plan. Or for getting engaged without being upper middle class first. Lots of people manage being right at poverty level, by taking a second job, or by saving like crazy people to tide them through a few months. Some people, like me, did it while in school. Would we be more financially secure if we waited the seven years or so it will likely take me to get tenure? Sure. Did we make it just fine now? Yup, and I don't think I was irresponsible because we don't own our home first. Some people move in with family. Not ideal, and not what I'd want but there are plenty of relationships that I don't think are ideal that other people manage to make work.

I'm not saying 'oh love will feed you' but you know, she actually got helpful answers on her other thread. Like considering a CR-1, which takes longer, but can allow him to find a job here right away. And rough estimates of what she should budget.

Nobody mentioned middle class. You're exagerrating. If you married while in the University and managed financially, then you did so with a plan.

One does not "support themselves" without "working", "stealing" or using savings. Other options are "being supported" by others. The plan needs to utilize resources available to the couple, whatever those might be, including "work" or "parental assistance" or "student loans" etc. It's simply the practical side of "marriage".

All I'm saying is that the men I know had a plan for the practical side before they arranged to "marry". No need to read anything more into that. Straight talk is best understood by avoiding added interpretation. Literal will suffice quite nicely.

[truffles 2]

The remark that got my attention is

"To be even more clear for the OP. You've proposed marriage, so it's time to be a man and support your wife. If this means some changes in your life, so be it. That's what men do. If she can support you for a while, fine, but ultimately this is a solution for you to find from within your own resources"

Reading this as and when it was written it seems certain poster(s) possibly assumed the OP was male - however having looked at the timeline of the OP it seems she is indeed thinking ahead - and is a simple request for suggestions/advice,

If what you want to say is ...you may need to consider the option of suspending your education and work a full time job until your then husband can gain employment or possibly use the what time is available for the fiance to build some kind of fund to use whilst awaiting permission to work ...then that i would consider helpful. Wrapping your remarks in judgements is of no help at all...i think the OP was simply asking how did everyone else get by...personally i had some funds saved which i have know i can call upon if needed - however i appreciate other people may have some suggestions that are more appropriate - i do wish the OP lots of luck

[pushbrk 13,133]

The remark that got my attention is

"To be even more clear for the OP. You've proposed marriage, so it's time to be a man and support your wife. If this means some changes in your life, so be it. That's what men do. If she can support you for a while, fine, but ultimately this is a solution for you to find from within your own resources"

Reading this as and when it was written it seems certain poster(s) possibly assumed the OP was male - however having looked at the timeline of the OP it seems she is indeed thinking ahead - and is a simple request for suggestions/advice,

If what you want to say is ...you may need to consider the option of suspending your education and work a full time job until your then husband can gain employment or possibly use the what time is available for the fiance to build some kind of fund to use whilst awaiting permission to work ...then that i would consider helpful. Wrapping your remarks in judgements is of no help at all...i think the OP was simply asking how did everyone else get by...personally i had some funds saved which i have know i can call upon if needed - however i appreciate other people may have some suggestions that are more appropriate - i do wish the OP lots of luck

Yes, the clarifying post does assume the OP is the man. Nevertheless, my advice is to the man. It works equally well for a woman but it is not judgmental. It reflects the practicalities of the situation, however unpleasant the reminder might be.

Yes, the OP was thinking ahead but the question was, "How do you "support yourself w/o working"? The answers is "borrowing" or "stealing". Perhaps you think it judgmental to reccomend adjusting the options to include working. It's not rocket science. Both my daughters married young 13 days apart 2 1/2 years ago. Somehow the couples have managed to "support themselves" but "work" was involved.

Edited December 14, 2007 by pushbrk

[Fandango 1,440]

And I'm not advocating jumping into marriage while unemployed or without a plan, but the OP asked for advice on how to make a plan and was pretty much told 'wait until you're financially secure, like on your second or third spouse.'

No one said anything about a 2nd or 3rd spouse. If you cut that out of what you said, the rest is very sage advice. Get a full time job, save your money...possibly wait til you're done with uni......WHY are these considered bad things? No, it's not pleasant, and instant gratification is oh so much better...but at the end of the day, if the OP can't afford to support her fiance, and the fiance isn't 'tons o bucks' where it's not an issue...I can't see any happy happy way around this...short of living off others.

You're putting words in ppl's mouths, Caladan....and when did advocating saving, getting a higher paying job, waiting, and planning become bad things?

PS - the way I read the op was 'how did the foreign fiance support him/herself?' Because the OP said she couldn't support him. That's a roadblock, for sure...and sadly not one that 'love' can fix. Cos if you have the easy answer to 'how do you live in another country with no money, no job, and no one to support you?'....you need to write a book and sell it! It'll be a bestseller, for sure

I was being a bit hyperbolic (as I figured was obvious from context), but seriously, people here are acting like the OP is horribly irresponsible for asking how to plan. Or for getting engaged without being upper middle class first. Lots of people manage being right at poverty level, by taking a second job, or by saving like crazy people to tide them through a few months. Some people, like me, did it while in school. Would we be more financially secure if we waited the seven years or so it will likely take me to get tenure? Sure. Did we make it just fine now? Yup, and I don't think I was irresponsible because we don't own our home first. Some people move in with family. Not ideal, and not what I'd want but there are plenty of relationships that I don't think are ideal that other people manage to make work.

I'm not saying 'oh love will feed you' but you know, she actually got helpful answers on her other thread. Like considering a CR-1, which takes longer, but can allow him to find a job here right away. And rough estimates of what she should budget.

right....taking another job and saving like crazy....I think I said something similar.

It's great to be young and in love, and it's great to do it all whilst in college....hell, I did that before too so I know how it feels. But couple that with all the stress of a marriage while in college, and then add the gov't ####### with AOS, and it's obviously something not to be ignored or answered with 'sell stuff on ebay' and 'disconnect your internet'. I'm sorry if you don't like that....that's the way I feel. I've expressed it in a respectful manner, as have others here....yet it's being mocked as 'preachy' and whatnot all because others disagree. The absolute snarkiness that some are dishing out here is beyond the pale, imo, and quite unnecessary.

To clarify: OP NEVER asked for help with a 'plan'. OP asked how others dealt with the issue. She hasn't filed yet, and imo, everyone's opinion here is one that should be given attention. That's why there's more than one flavor ice cream....we all have different tastes. It's not preachy to say 'hey, put a plan in place because this is going to be hard'. I personally wouldn't have peace of mind if D came over and we had no money, he didn't work, I had a v limited income that couldn't support us both, etc. Many non-USCs come over and have hard adjustment periods. How much harder is an adjustment when you add severe money issues ontop of that?

It's all well and good to be 'yay for love!' but take love to the store and try to buy food with it. That's not being snobbish, or money hungry...that's being realistic. People can ignore that and do whatever they want, but that doesn't make what I say any less true.

[Jenn! 918]

Yes, the clarifying post does assume the OP is the man. Nevertheless, my advice is to the man. It works equally well for a woman but it is not judgmental. It reflects the practicalities of the situation, however unpleasant the reminder might be.

It might be good to keep this in mind the next time you accuse someone of being judgmental when stating the practicalities of other situations, such as dealing with age differences, knowing the beneficiary for only a brief amount of time among other red flags in the petition process.

[rebeccajo 14]

The men I've known in my life all knew how they were going to support their brides before they proposed. A few boys weren't so wise. Perhaps you're a premature petitioner.

It's not a personal attack. I can read. A B C. Learned it in grade school.

Get over yourself.

You are using convenient interpretation based on your agenda to bash me. "You" refers to the petitioner. "Men" refers to "men".

Your post was a personal attack that called me a liar. Knock it off.

It's NOT a convenient interpretation!! YOU wrote it!

Are you annoyed that I have your attention? I mean, isn't that the excuse you gave to me for whenever you are rude, insulting, degrading, crass or otherwise just plain pompous? That you are trying to get someone's attention?

Do I have your attention now? It shouldn't be hard. They are your words, after all.

Stop trying to wiggle your way out of the fact that you friggin' speed read your way around this community (to the point that you missed this one) in order to promote your particular brand of 'knowledge', which mostly consists of making yourself feel superior and making other people feel small.

You are the one that needs to knock it off.

Edited December 14, 2007 by rebeccajo

[rebeccajo 14]

And I'm not advocating jumping into marriage while unemployed or without a plan, but the OP asked for advice on how to make a plan and was pretty much told 'wait until you're financially secure, like on your second or third spouse.'

No one said anything about a 2nd or 3rd spouse. If you cut that out of what you said, the rest is very sage advice. Get a full time job, save your money...possibly wait til you're done with uni......WHY are these considered bad things? No, it's not pleasant, and instant gratification is oh so much better...but at the end of the day, if the OP can't afford to support her fiance, and the fiance isn't 'tons o bucks' where it's not an issue...I can't see any happy happy way around this...short of living off others.

You're putting words in ppl's mouths, Caladan....and when did advocating saving, getting a higher paying job, waiting, and planning become bad things?

PS - the way I read the op was 'how did the foreign fiance support him/herself?' Because the OP said she couldn't support him. That's a roadblock, for sure...and sadly not one that 'love' can fix. Cos if you have the easy answer to 'how do you live in another country with no money, no job, and no one to support you?'....you need to write a book and sell it! It'll be a bestseller, for sure

I was being a bit hyperbolic (as I figured was obvious from context), but seriously, people here are acting like the OP is horribly irresponsible for asking how to plan. Or for getting engaged without being upper middle class first. Lots of people manage being right at poverty level, by taking a second job, or by saving like crazy people to tide them through a few months. Some people, like me, did it while in school. Would we be more financially secure if we waited the seven years or so it will likely take me to get tenure? Sure. Did we make it just fine now? Yup, and I don't think I was irresponsible because we don't own our home first. Some people move in with family. Not ideal, and not what I'd want but there are plenty of relationships that I don't think are ideal that other people manage to make work.

I'm not saying 'oh love will feed you' but you know, she actually got helpful answers on her other thread. Like considering a CR-1, which takes longer, but can allow him to find a job here right away. And rough estimates of what she should budget.

right....taking another job and saving like crazy....I think I said something similar.

It's great to be young and in love, and it's great to do it all whilst in college....hell, I did that before too so I know how it feels. But couple that with all the stress of a marriage while in college, and then add the gov't ####### with AOS, and it's obviously something not to be ignored or answered with 'sell stuff on ebay' and 'disconnect your internet'. I'm sorry if you don't like that....that's the way I feel. I've expressed it in a respectful manner, as have others here....yet it's being mocked as 'preachy' and whatnot all because others disagree. The absolute snarkiness that some are dishing out here is beyond the pale, imo, and quite unnecessary.

To clarify: OP NEVER asked for help with a 'plan'. OP asked how others dealt with the issue. She hasn't filed yet, and imo, everyone's opinion here is one that should be given attention. That's why there's more than one flavor ice cream....we all have different tastes. It's not preachy to say 'hey, put a plan in place because this is going to be hard'. I personally wouldn't have peace of mind if D came over and we had no money, he didn't work, I had a v limited income that couldn't support us both, etc. Many non-USCs come over and have hard adjustment periods. How much harder is an adjustment when you add severe money issues ontop of that?

It's all well and good to be 'yay for love!' but take love to the store and try to buy food with it. That's not being snobbish, or money hungry...that's being realistic. People can ignore that and do whatever they want, but that doesn't make what I say any less true.

Brothers and sisters of the Congregation of Self Importance, let's have an amen!

[tmma 467]

double post...ooops

Edited December 14, 2007 by tmma

[tmma 467]

.n/m messed the post up.

Edited December 14, 2007 by tmma

[Fandango 1,440]

Brothers and sisters of the Congregation of Self Importance, let's have an amen!

Was that really necessary?