Hot Air Emitted by Climate Summit Equals 20,000 Cars

[GaryC 7]

Hot Air Emitted by Climate Summit Equals 20,000 Cars (Update1)

By Alex Morales and Kim Chipman

Dec. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Government officials and activists flying to Bali, Indonesia, for the United Nations meeting on climate change will cause as much pollution as 20,000 cars in a year.

The delegates each will produce an average 4.07 metric tons of carbon dioxide, or CO2, to reach the resort island 950 kilometers (600 miles) from Jakarta, according to estimates e- mailed to Bloomberg by the UN agency holding the conference.

Some of the 187 nations participating in the two-week forum promised to offset their so-called carbon footprint by planting trees or buying emission credits. The symbolic actions won't help stop global warming, some scientists say.

``It's very hard for the public to understand that you come together with so many people to a very distant place and cause a lot of emissions, and at the same time talk about emission reductions,'' Artur Runge-Metzger, head of climate strategy for the European Commission, said yesterday in an interview in Bali, adding that he had offset his own emissions.

Carbon dioxide is the main greenhouse gas responsible for the higher temperatures that are causing a surge in sea levels and an increased risk of droughts and floods, according to UN reports. The goal of the Bali meeting is a deadline for a new international treaty to limit emissions after the current accord, called the Kyoto Protocol, expires in 2012.

The UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, the conference organizer, failed to get governments to include offsetting projects in the group's budget, said Yvo de Boer, executive secretary of the convention. Some of the 10,000 attendees to this year's meeting, held in air-conditioned rooms at the tropical beach resort, planned their own projects.

Proposals Abound

Indonesia will plant 79 million trees to offset the entire conference's emissions, Emil Salim, head of the host country's delegation, told reporters yesterday in Bali. The Asian nation is investigating how to develop its tree-planting activity to ensure a lasting offset, said Amanda Katili, special assistant to Environment Minister Rachmat Witoelar.

``We have to know where the trees will be planted and make sure that they grow and not be cut down until they make enough carbon stock,'' Katili said in an interview.

The U.K.'s 40-person team will have their emissions neutralized through a central government fund, a spokeswoman for the country's environment department said.

EU Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimas and three of his staff are buying so-called carbon credits, each representing a reduction of a ton of carbon dioxide, on the EU Emissions Trading Scheme, commission spokeswoman Barbara Helfferich said in a telephone interview.

$132 `Out of Pocket'

``I'm paying out of my own pocket, and some individuals will also offset,'' said Helfferich, adding she's spending about 90 euros ($132).

The U.S. won't compensate for the emissions of its delegates because ``we feel the best use of taxpayer dollars is for technology advancement, not purchasing carbon offsets,'' said Kristen Hellmer, a spokeswoman for the delegation.

The environmental group WWF International, known in the U.S. as the World Wildlife Fund, is also making sure the visit to Bali by about 80 of its workers is carbon-neutral, according to Martin Hiller, a spokesman for the group's climate change program.

``Our flight emissions are equivalent to about half an hour's emissions from a normal coal-fired power station of about 600 megawatts,'' Hiller said in a telephone interview from Bali. ``We're offsetting all our travel with emissions credits.''

Carbon `Cowboys'

The total of 40,700 tons of gas created by the conference is equivalent to the annual emissions of 20,350 mid-sized cars, each traveling 12,000 kilometers, according to www.atmosfair.de, a Web site that allows air travelers to compensate for emissions by investing in strategies to cut gas output in countries including India and Brazil.

Delegates buying carbon credits should make sure they know what they're purchasing, because some companies that sell them are ``cowboys,'' Mark Meyrick, a London-based trader for EDF Trading, said in an interview. Companies calculate different amounts of carbon for the same flight, he said.

``What's very unclear when you do buy your offset is what exactly you're buying, and how it's calculated,'' Meyrick said. ``Offsetters don't do their reputations any favors when they can't come up with something that approximates the same number.''

The UN agency's de Boer said he last tried to have an offset included in a conference budget ``a number of years ago.'' As increasing numbers of governments and companies work to compensate for their own carbon emissions, he said he may try again to get delegates to incorporate offsetting into the convention's budget.

``I personally feel that this really should be part of our normal budget and our normal operations,'' de Boer said. ``But I don't decide on our budget; governments do.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aPbfclqokwcw

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

But their message is worth it.

[GaryC 7]

But their message is worth it.

Yeah, do as I say, not as I do. Real good example there.

I can't take credit for this little gem of a story. A well know sh!t stir'r here in VJ gave it to me a while back.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

20,000 cars a year, eh? Sounds like a big number until you put it into perspective: The number of motor vehicles in the US increased by 15,000,000 just between 2000 and 2003 and is now somewhere in the range of 250,000,000 (roughly 90,000,000 of those gas guzzling pick-up trucks and SUV's) just in this here country. That makes the number of 20,000 cars seem rather irrelevant, no?

[GaryC 7]

20,000 cars a year, eh? Sounds like a big number until you put it into perspective: The number of motor vehicles in the US increased by 15,000,000 just between 2000 and 2003 and is now somewhere in the range of 250,000,000 (roughly 90,000,000 of those gas guzzling pick-up trucks and SUV's) just in this here country. That makes the number of 20,000 cars seem rather irrelevant, no?

As the GW nuts say, every little bit helps. They could have done the same thing with a meeting over the net. That way they could say they took 20,000 cars off the road.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

20,000 cars a year, eh? Sounds like a big number until you put it into perspective: The number of motor vehicles in the US increased by 15,000,000 just between 2000 and 2003 and is now somewhere in the range of 250,000,000 (roughly 90,000,000 of those gas guzzling pick-up trucks and SUV's) just in this here country. That makes the number of 20,000 cars seem rather irrelevant, no?

As the GW nuts say, every little bit helps. They could have done the same thing with a meeting over the net. That way they could say they took 20,000 cars off the road.

Leaders need to meet in person from time to time. No way a virtual conference delivers the same results as the physical meeting of people. Anyone that ever participated in one of those virtual conferences know this.

And when did you start to call the Bushies GW nuts?

Edited December 12, 2007 by Mr. Big Dog

[natty bumppo 297]

As the GW nuts say, every little bit helps. They could have done the same thing with a meeting over the net. That way they could say they took 20,000 cars off the road.

Agree ... Webex ... is great. We use it all the time at work.

What's wrong with these idiots ?? Oh wait ... they want the appearance of being seen doing something ...

[GaryC 7]

20,000 cars a year, eh? Sounds like a big number until you put it into perspective: The number of motor vehicles in the US increased by 15,000,000 just between 2000 and 2003 and is now somewhere in the range of 250,000,000 (roughly 90,000,000 of those gas guzzling pick-up trucks and SUV's) just in this here country. That makes the number of 20,000 cars seem rather irrelevant, no?

As the GW nuts say, every little bit helps. They could have done the same thing with a meeting over the net. That way they could say they took 20,000 cars off the road.

Leaders need to meet in person from time to time. No way a virtual conference delivers the same results as the physical meeting of people. Anyone that ever participated in one of those virtual conferences know this.

And when did you start to call the Bushies GW nuts?

Anyone that thinks man is making global warming is a nut IMO. I don't care who they are.

[kerewin21 2]

Can anyone explain to me how you can "buy" a carbon credit? I mean, how can spending money change the fact that you've caused carbon dioxide to escape into the atmosphere?

[GaryC 7]

Can anyone explain to me how you can "buy" a carbon credit? I mean, how can spending money change the fact that you've caused carbon dioxide to escape into the atmosphere?

Buying a carbon credit is like paying someone else to lose weight for you. It really makes no sense at all. Just smoke and mirrors to make the GW nuts feel better.

[Fandango 1,440]

the fricken Earth's been warming since the end of the ice age. Use your head, people!

[jundp 191]

The U.S. won't compensate for the emissions of its delegates because ``we feel the best use of taxpayer dollars is for technology advancement, not purchasing carbon offsets,'' said Kristen Hellmer, a spokeswoman for the delegation.

I just thought this particular quote was funny. All other aspects aside, do they REALLY expect me to believe they're using my tax dollars for technology advancement?

[kerewin21 2]

the fricken Earth's been warming since the end of the ice age. Use your head, people!

True, but currently at a rate much greater than ever before. That's why people are concerned. Something that has been happening over thousands of years, that had been causing changes already, is now happening much faster.

[GaryC 7]

the fricken Earth's been warming since the end of the ice age. Use your head, people!

True, but currently at a rate much greater than ever before. That's why people are concerned. Something that has been happening over thousands of years, that had been causing changes already, is now happening much faster.

Faster than what? We know that the earth has cooled and warmed over the eons but we cannot say how fast it did that. It's just an assumption that it's happening faster today to bolster the GW nuts view.

[jundp 191]

the fricken Earth's been warming since the end of the ice age. Use your head, people!

True, but currently at a rate much greater than ever before. That's why people are concerned. Something that has been happening over thousands of years, that had been causing changes already, is now happening much faster.

Faster than what? We know that the earth has cooled and warmed over the eons but we cannot say how fast it did that. It's just an assumption that it's happening faster today to bolster the GW nuts view.

Gary, this is too close to George W. Can you call us something like "crazy lunatic tree huggers" or something?