Waterboarding for Terrorism suspects

[Nessa 23]

yes.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Wow... Waterboarding - yes, lashing the soles of the feet - no. That's a mighty fine hair to split IMO.

Not one I'm comfortable with.

[caybee 21]

Torture is torture. No torture is OK. Human rights apply to everyone. You don't get to pick who "deserves" them or not. And frankly, no matter what terrible things our enemies do, the fewer terrible things we do, the less like them we are. We are better people for not engaging in those tactics. Bottom line, I don't ever want to pay for a government that tortures. How barbarian and disgusting.

[Sister Fracas 5]

Torture is torture. No torture is OK. Human rights apply to everyone. You don't get to pick who "deserves" them or not. And frankly, no matter what terrible things our enemies do, the fewer terrible things we do, the less like them we are. We are better people for not engaging in those tactics. Bottom line, I don't ever want to pay for a government that tortures. How barbarian and disgusting.

Completely agree.

And more thumbs up here... well said Alex+R When we stoop to those type of tactics, we become the same as our enemies.

I don't believe the US should be using torture. Period.

I tend to agree with that but the US has always done it

So what's your point there? Might as well have just kept enslaving people too...seeing as it had been done before?

[SteveLaura 0]

Interesting. I wonder if those who voted yes could say with absolute certainty that they wouldn't confess to something they were innocent of if they were exposed to a continuous round of water-boarding?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Interesting. I wonder if those who voted yes could say with absolute certainty that they wouldn't confess to something they were innocent of if they were exposed to a continuous round of water-boarding?

I voted yes* and no of course I couldn't say that. That's why intelligence is never gathered from just one source, it's considered 'good' only when corroborated from multiple sources.

* I voted yes because while sticking a mans head in water is torture, simulating it but not actually doing it (which is what waterboarding is) is simulated torture, not actual torture.

Edited December 13, 2007 by VJ Troll

[SteveLaura 0]

Interesting. I wonder if those who voted yes could say with absolute certainty that they wouldn't confess to something they were innocent of if they were exposed to a continuous round of water-boarding?

I voted yes* and no of course I couldn't say that. That's why intelligence is never gathered from just one source, it's considered 'good' only when corroborated from multiple sources.

* I voted yes because while sticking a mans head in water is torture, simulating it but not actually doing it (which is what waterboarding is) is simulated torture, not actual torture.

I heard something on NPR to that affect. It's 'simulated drowning' because the victim doesn't actually drown ie. they do not die because their lungs have filled with water. Semantically it's correct. However, if I'm being pulled under by a strong current when out swimming, it's sure gonna feel like drowning to me, even if I get rescued and live. Same, I would imagine, with waterboarding. Am I honestly going to be thinking, "Oh, it's OK, I'm not going to die"?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Interesting. I wonder if those who voted yes could say with absolute certainty that they wouldn't confess to something they were innocent of if they were exposed to a continuous round of water-boarding?

I voted yes* and no of course I couldn't say that. That's why intelligence is never gathered from just one source, it's considered 'good' only when corroborated from multiple sources.

* I voted yes because while sticking a mans head in water is torture, simulating it but not actually doing it (which is what waterboarding is) is simulated torture, not actual torture.

I heard something on NPR to that affect. It's 'simulated drowning' because the victim doesn't actually drown ie. they do not die because their lungs have filled with water. Semantically it's correct. However, if I'm being pulled under by a strong current when out swimming, it's sure gonna feel like drowning to me, even if I get rescued and live. Same, I would imagine, with waterboarding. Am I honestly going to be thinking, "Oh, it's OK, I'm not going to die"?

With the proper training, possibly.

Even if not, it doesn't matter how you feel or what you're thinking, but merely what's truly happening to you. What's actually happening to you is that you think you're drowning but in reality you're not. It's an illusion. If the United States wanted to torture, don't you think they'd just stick your head in a toilet bowl? Why go to all the trouble of simulating the effect?

[Don_Joy's Prince 0]

The truth is that the water boarding is not torture. It was only used twice. And it saved many lives of innocent people and helped us destroy the terror network. Which has been destroyed as a a centrally controlled network. Only the fringe kooks are left. (isn't it funny how "fringe", "kook" and "left" all fit together so nicely.) It's a towel on your face with water poured on it. We use the technique to train our own soldiers. Get real!

[Nessa 23]

[Ban Hammer 13,669]

i say dip them in fire ants

[Alex+R 0]

Interesting. I wonder if those who voted yes could say with absolute certainty that they wouldn't confess to something they were innocent of if they were exposed to a continuous round of water-boarding?

I voted yes* and no of course I couldn't say that. That's why intelligence is never gathered from just one source, it's considered 'good' only when corroborated from multiple sources.

* I voted yes because while sticking a mans head in water is torture, simulating it but not actually doing it (which is what waterboarding is) is simulated torture, not actual torture.

I heard something on NPR to that affect. It's 'simulated drowning' because the victim doesn't actually drown ie. they do not die because their lungs have filled with water. Semantically it's correct. However, if I'm being pulled under by a strong current when out swimming, it's sure gonna feel like drowning to me, even if I get rescued and live. Same, I would imagine, with waterboarding. Am I honestly going to be thinking, "Oh, it's OK, I'm not going to die"?

With the proper training, possibly.

Even if not, it doesn't matter how you feel or what you're thinking, but merely what's truly happening to you. What's actually happening to you is that you think you're drowning but in reality you're not. It's an illusion. If the United States wanted to torture, don't you think they'd just stick your head in a toilet bowl? Why go to all the trouble of simulating the effect?

Why go to the trouble indeed? If "with the proper training" someone can deal calmly with waterboarding, then what would be the point of using it? It's only effective if the victim feels that they are drowning. It has the same psychological effect as actually being drowned. The psychological effects alone qualify it as torture.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The psychological effects alone qualify it as torture.

Is that a legal opinion? I'll be straight up, I have no idea what the legal definition of torture is. I always thought of it as physical.

[Ban Hammer 13,669]

I'll be straight up, I have no idea what the legal definition of torture is. I always thought of it as physical.

you haven't been married long enough have you?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I'll be straight up, I have no idea what the legal definition of torture is. I always thought of it as physical.

you haven't been married long enough have you?

If the reference is to the oft used phrase "emotional torture", I never did understand it.