Father kills 16 year old Canadian girl

[mawilson 2,133]

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam.

Tomayto, tomahto.

[Caladan 19]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

That's true. It's religion-related, but not religion-determined. It would be a bad takeaway to think that all Muslims are for murdering their daughters over perceived slights to the family honor, or that no other culture adheres to this barbaric practice.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam.

Tomayto, tomahto.

Not really. Muslims in Indonesia, don't, as a general rule, practice honor killing, to take one example. Best to know thine enemy.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Wow ... i wonder what religion we can blame for Robert Pickton's behaviour..

Well, it involved pigs, so I'd say it wasn't Judaism or Islam.

Really it's quite different. There is OBVIOUSLY a religious motivation to this girl's murder.

I'd say cultural more than religious; honor killings don't always follow Islam. In some areas of the ME, it would apply to Christians as well as pre-Christian/Islam tribes. It's been influenced by religion, and some may attribute their own actions to it, but it's a complicated picture.

Indeed. I love that VJ taught me that. The history of honor killings may be the only thing I ever actually learned here. Still, he killed his daughter over wearing the hijab, so the shame she brought on her family was religion-related.

That's true. It's religion-related, but not religion-determined. It would be a bad takeaway to think that all Muslims are for murdering their daughters over perceived slights to the family honor, or that no other culture adheres to this barbaric practice.

Exactly. Just like female circumcision.

[mawilson 2,133]

Best to know thine enemy.

I know them when I see them. I don't have a PC veil over my eyes.

[Caladan 19]

Best to know thine enemy.

I know them when I see them. I don't have a PC veil over my eyes.

It's not a PC veil. It's about how to address the actual problem as opposed to conflating 'Arab' with 'Muslim.'

[Jasman0717 9]

That is terrible I can't imagine anything happening to my girls

[Alex+R 0]

i agree with you brother stevie..it is a cultural norm in his view which was defined in his view of his religion....

he was a chopf##k...and a youngster died at his hands...

Yes. To even suggest some of the responsibility lies with religion in general is just giving these murderers an excuse. I refuse to drink that kool-aid.

Blaming the act solely on religion may be overly simplistic, but I'm not sure how you think it gives them an excuse. I don't think anyone is holding the man any less accountable for his actions.

I can certainly see there are problems with how people follow a religion, but religion of itself is not the flaw...the flaw lies in the thinking of the individual or group.

There is no such thing as a pure unadulterated version of a religion. Religions, made by people, are constantly changed by people. The way people use and interpret a religion is the living incarnation of a religion. There can be more than one at a time, but that's what religion is.

Again, if someone here can find an Islamic scholar who has outright said the Quran espouses the killing one's own child, I'd like to read it.

My whole point was that it doesn't matter what the Quran says. On another note, I don't think he killed his daughter out of religious motivation -- that was a cultural practice. It was over something religious, though (the hijab).

[mawilson 2,133]

Best to know thine enemy.

I know them when I see them. I don't have a PC veil over my eyes.

It's not a PC veil. It's about how to address the actual problem as opposed to conflating 'Arab' with 'Muslim.'

The problem is these medieval thugs are *here* - in Canada, in the UK, in the US.

Some arsehole somewhere approved their asylum petition and let them in,

that's the problem.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

My whole point was that it doesn't matter what the Quran says. On another note, I don't think he killed his daughter out of religious motivation -- that was a cultural practice. It was over something religious, though (the hijab).

...and the question is, how do we end barbaric cultural practices while also embracing cultural diversity? It seems like the first generation immigrants are the ones who are most resistant to change.

[Alex+R 0]

My whole point was that it doesn't matter what the Quran says. On another note, I don't think he killed his daughter out of religious motivation -- that was a cultural practice. It was over something religious, though (the hijab).

...and the question is, how do we end barbaric cultural practices while also embracing cultural diversity? It seems like the first generation immigrants are the ones who are most resistant to change.

We don't crack down very hard on female genital mutilation in the Twin Cities.

[mawilson 2,133]

My whole point was that it doesn't matter what the Quran says. On another note, I don't think he killed his daughter out of religious motivation -- that was a cultural practice. It was over something religious, though (the hijab).

...and the question is, how do we end barbaric cultural practices while also embracing cultural diversity? It seems like the first generation immigrants are the ones who are most resistant to change.

Cultural diversity should not include barbaric cultures.

[Caladan 19]

Best to know thine enemy.

I know them when I see them. I don't have a PC veil over my eyes.

It's not a PC veil. It's about how to address the actual problem as opposed to conflating 'Arab' with 'Muslim.'

The problem is these medieval thugs are *here* - in Canada, in the UK, in the US.

Some arsehole somewhere approved their asylum petition and let them in,

that's the problem.

Right, but if your advice (say) were 'Don't approve this Muslim family from Indonesia, because they practice honor killings,' that would be bad advice.

As to the rest of it, cultural sensitivity my ###. This isn't about dietary restrictions or wanting time to pray. If you're in the U.S. and your murder your daughter, you get to go to jail. If you mutilate her, same thing. If you beat your wife, hey, see the pattern? No excuse based on what you think God is telling you.

[DeadPoolX 9]

My whole point was that it doesn't matter what the Quran says. On another note, I don't think he killed his daughter out of religious motivation -- that was a cultural practice. It was over something religious, though (the hijab).

...and the question is, how do we end barbaric cultural practices while also embracing cultural diversity? It seems like the first generation immigrants are the ones who are most resistant to change.

Cultural diversity should not include barbaric cultures.

What's "barbaric" to one culture may not be to another. I hate to play that card, but it's true. What one group does as part of their normal routine (i.e. cultural norms) may end up offending and seeming quite barbaric to a neighboring group, if their cultural norms end up clashing. That doesn't mean either group is necessarily "wrong." It merely suggests that both groups are different, which is fine. The trick is getting the groups to understand that.

However, certain cultural practices must be curbed when in a foreign society. The example here in this story is a good one. This Muslim father killed his daughter. In Western society (which Canada is obviously a part of), his actions would be deemed "murder." In Middle-Eastern society, his actions would probably be seen as "fair and just" considering honor killings are par for the course over there. While that may be fine if you're in the Middle-East, this man was not there; he was in Canada and therefore needed to abide by Canadian laws, even if said laws conflicted with his cultural and religious viewpoints.

[Sister Fracas 5]

There is no such thing as a pure unadulterated version of a religion. Religions, made by people, are constantly changed by people. The way people use and interpret a religion is the living incarnation of a religion. There can be more than one at a time, but that's what religion is.

And I keep liking you sister.

My .02: blaming an entire SET OF BELIEFS (whichever it is, there are chopf@cks in all of them) for a 'purely' human act such as murder is just effed up.

and again...nice and concise

[AnewKINDofFEELIN 0]

You're actually good for something.

Oooh, back handed compliment. Here, have a "I got slapped by devilette" T-shirt, I think you'll be wearing it soon

He doesn't deserve to wear it. What a punk.

Wow, I was really being completely sarcastic there, but whatever.