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Visa Granted, Travel not yet Planned , More Info. is Needed

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Hi Everyone

:help:

Here You Are !!!!!!!!! :dance:

is there any possibilty to provide us a list of hospitals where my wife can deliver our child

infact we are planning to reside in chicago

but the problem is we dont know any one there and we have money shortages

and we heared that birth may cost around $10,000 - $15,000 and maybe more

and this is a huge number for us to be handeled

for people who have experience in such things , is there a possibility to make some agreements with some hospital so they can take their fare as devided payments.

we spent so much time and effort on visa and now im affraid that i can't use it and istead of that stay at my country and find job here in my country and let my wife get birth also here

unfortunatley she doesn't meet the residency requirement to transfer the citizenship to our child immediately

so our child wont be a USC and by then we have to apply for I-130 petition for her/him

this is what the US embassy replied to us as follows :

" Hello,

If you deliver the baby outside USA, then you will have to apply for the I-130 for the baby. You can not transmit citizenship to the baby because you do not have the required period of residency in USA to do so.

Thank you.

ACS "

and my post to them was like follows : :crying:

"

Dear Madam/Sir

Im a US citizen, born in the US for two US Parents , but I lived in the US for five years only

Then my father took us to his origin country ( Jordan ) and we lived there for the rest of my live ( from age 5 till now , im 22 years old) .

My mother is originally a US citizen and her parents also (she spent 25 years in the US)

My father is originally Jordanian but later he has the US citizenship ( he spent 18 years in the US)

One year ago I got married from a Jordanian guy, and I got pregnant (21 weeks until now)

We applied for the I-130 application and they has issued him a CR1 visa , and he is planning to travel to the US by next month but without me, I'll stay here in Jordan till birth of my child

Now the question is :

If I deliver my child here in Jordan, what kind of process we have to go thru so the child can travel with me to the US later

Upon those circumstances is my child a US citizen , or we have to apply a petition for him

And If so, does such a petition take so much time or what

The problem that I don’t want to go to the US to get birth there becauseof we don’t have any health insurance there and my husband will go there and starts searching for jobs

So we are not clearly sure that we can handle the high cost of the hospitals in the US,

I know that we still have about 20 weeks till the Due Date and we are searching for jobs and domicile there in the US, and we hope everything goes smoothly so I could get birth in the US so my child is a US citizen immediately and no paperwork is needed by then.

But even thought I want to know what will happen if we decide to choose the other option which is getting birth outside the US.

Im so sorry for the long story and I hope that everything is clear and I hope if you answer these questions, because I searched for this issue in the US Gov websites but unfortunately without any result.

Thanks in advance for any help you would provide.

Yours,"

that was my story, but somewhere else i can't remember exactly where i think i red something like Act Exception on this issue , something like if the US parent/s don't meet the residency requirements we might look at the grandparents conditions and check whether they satisfy the requirements or not, Correct me plz if im wrong

any way im still looking for chances of delivering our child in the US but without sleeping at the street and without asking for help at the street and without putting my foot on the Jail road when i don't have money for the high cost bills .

Guys! the problem is i thought USA is better than this and no one will sleep at the street and any problem could be solved by some settelment between you and that side . unfortunately i dont see this even before i arrive at the US.

if it is a matter of little period of seperation from my wife, absolutely we can handle it but for weeks, month or two maximum but not for months or years.

i hope if some nice guy would direct me to the right way and provide any advice to the best solution for our case upon these circumestances which i have.

god belss VisaJourney and VJer's since it is the unique destination for our posts .

sorry for long story

and thanks in advance for sharing your idea with us.

-Rami

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Filed: Other Country: China
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They answered your immigration question before you asked it. If your baby is born outside the US, you'll file an I-130 and obtain an immigrant visa for the baby.

US hospitals will deal with your baby's birth first and worry about the money later. When you get to Chicago, make a few phone calls. Cook County Hospital would be the first place I called, if I were you.

Hi Everyone

:help:

Here You Are !!!!!!!!! :dance:

is there any possibilty to provide us a list of hospitals where my wife can deliver our child

infact we are planning to reside in chicago

but the problem is we dont know any one there and we have money shortages

and we heared that birth may cost around $10,000 - $15,000 and maybe more

and this is a huge number for us to be handeled

for people who have experience in such things , is there a possibility to make some agreements with some hospital so they can take their fare as devided payments.

we spent so much time and effort on visa and now im affraid that i can't use it and istead of that stay at my country and find job here in my country and let my wife get birth also here

unfortunatley she doesn't meet the residency requirement to transfer the citizenship to our child immediately

so our child wont be a USC and by then we have to apply for I-130 petition for her/him

this is what the US embassy replied to us as follows :

" Hello,

If you deliver the baby outside USA, then you will have to apply for the I-130 for the baby. You can not transmit citizenship to the baby because you do not have the required period of residency in USA to do so.

Thank you.

ACS "

and my post to them was like follows : :crying:

"

Dear Madam/Sir

Im a US citizen, born in the US for two US Parents , but I lived in the US for five years only

Then my father took us to his origin country ( Jordan ) and we lived there for the rest of my live ( from age 5 till now , im 22 years old) .

My mother is originally a US citizen and her parents also (she spent 25 years in the US)

My father is originally Jordanian but later he has the US citizenship ( he spent 18 years in the US)

One year ago I got married from a Jordanian guy, and I got pregnant (21 weeks until now)

We applied for the I-130 application and they has issued him a CR1 visa , and he is planning to travel to the US by next month but without me, I'll stay here in Jordan till birth of my child

Now the question is :

If I deliver my child here in Jordan, what kind of process we have to go thru so the child can travel with me to the US later

Upon those circumstances is my child a US citizen , or we have to apply a petition for him

And If so, does such a petition take so much time or what

The problem that I don’t want to go to the US to get birth there becauseof we don’t have any health insurance there and my husband will go there and starts searching for jobs

So we are not clearly sure that we can handle the high cost of the hospitals in the US,

I know that we still have about 20 weeks till the Due Date and we are searching for jobs and domicile there in the US, and we hope everything goes smoothly so I could get birth in the US so my child is a US citizen immediately and no paperwork is needed by then.

But even thought I want to know what will happen if we decide to choose the other option which is getting birth outside the US.

Im so sorry for the long story and I hope that everything is clear and I hope if you answer these questions, because I searched for this issue in the US Gov websites but unfortunately without any result.

Thanks in advance for any help you would provide.

Yours,"

that was my story, but somewhere else i can't remember exactly where i think i red something like Act Exception on this issue , something like if the US parent/s don't meet the residency requirements we might look at the grandparents conditions and check whether they satisfy the requirements or not, Correct me plz if im wrong

any way im still looking for chances of delivering our child in the US but without sleeping at the street and without asking for help at the street and without putting my foot on the Jail road when i don't have money for the high cost bills .

Guys! the problem is i thought USA is better than this and no one will sleep at the street and any problem could be solved by some settelment between you and that side . unfortunately i dont see this even before i arrive at the US.

if it is a matter of little period of seperation from my wife, absolutely we can handle it but for weeks, month or two maximum but not for months or years.

i hope if some nice guy would direct me to the right way and provide any advice to the best solution for our case upon these circumestances which i have.

god belss VisaJourney and VJer's since it is the unique destination for our posts .

sorry for long story

and thanks in advance for sharing your idea with us.

-Rami

Facts are cheap...knowing how to use them is precious...
Understanding the big picture is priceless. Anonymous

Google Who is Pushbrk?

A Warning to Green Card Holders About Voting

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/606646-a-warning-to-green-card-holders-about-voting/

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Nepal
Timeline

Hi Rami,

I don't know what you're able to afford but you might try finding a birth center and have your baby delivered by a midwife if your pregnancy is going well and you're expecting a healthy baby. They won't take high-risk births. They are a low-cost alternative for many people, often reducing costs by 70%. Here's a link to start you out: http://www.birthcenters.org/find-a-birth-center/

Good luck!

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: United Kingdom
Timeline

I don't know if this helps. I am already in the US, my husband and I don't have health insurance as yet and I am 11 weeks pregnant however my baby qualified for medicaid and because I am carrying the baby I too qualify until the baby is born . My baby will continue to qualify for medicaid until he/she is one year old. So if you come to US to deliver your baby then I'm sure you will qualify especially since you are a US citizen. It also does not interfere with your aos. Good luck.

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Filed: Timeline
Hi Everyone

:help:

Here You Are !!!!!!!!! :dance:

is there any possibilty to provide us a list of hospitals where my wife can deliver our child

infact we are planning to reside in chicago

but the problem is we dont know any one there and we have money shortages

and we heared that birth may cost around $10,000 - $15,000 and maybe more

and this is a huge number for us to be handeled

for people who have experience in such things , is there a possibility to make some agreements with some hospital so they can take their fare as devided payments.

we spent so much time and effort on visa and now im affraid that i can't use it and istead of that stay at my country and find job here in my country and let my wife get birth also here

unfortunatley she doesn't meet the residency requirement to transfer the citizenship to our child immediately

so our child wont be a USC and by then we have to apply for I-130 petition for her/him

this is what the US embassy replied to us as follows :

" Hello,

If you deliver the baby outside USA, then you will have to apply for the I-130 for the baby. You can not transmit citizenship to the baby because you do not have the required period of residency in USA to do so.

Thank you.

ACS "

and my post to them was like follows : :crying:

"

Dear Madam/Sir

Im a US citizen, born in the US for two US Parents , but I lived in the US for five years only

Then my father took us to his origin country ( Jordan ) and we lived there for the rest of my live ( from age 5 till now , im 22 years old) .

My mother is originally a US citizen and her parents also (she spent 25 years in the US)

My father is originally Jordanian but later he has the US citizenship ( he spent 18 years in the US)

One year ago I got married from a Jordanian guy, and I got pregnant (21 weeks until now)

We applied for the I-130 application and they has issued him a CR1 visa , and he is planning to travel to the US by next month but without me, I'll stay here in Jordan till birth of my child

Now the question is :

If I deliver my child here in Jordan, what kind of process we have to go thru so the child can travel with me to the US later

Upon those circumstances is my child a US citizen , or we have to apply a petition for him

And If so, does such a petition take so much time or what

The problem that I don’t want to go to the US to get birth there becauseof we don’t have any health insurance there and my husband will go there and starts searching for jobs

So we are not clearly sure that we can handle the high cost of the hospitals in the US,

I know that we still have about 20 weeks till the Due Date and we are searching for jobs and domicile there in the US, and we hope everything goes smoothly so I could get birth in the US so my child is a US citizen immediately and no paperwork is needed by then.

But even thought I want to know what will happen if we decide to choose the other option which is getting birth outside the US.

Im so sorry for the long story and I hope that everything is clear and I hope if you answer these questions, because I searched for this issue in the US Gov websites but unfortunately without any result.

Thanks in advance for any help you would provide.

Yours,"

that was my story, but somewhere else i can't remember exactly where i think i red something like Act Exception on this issue , something like if the US parent/s don't meet the residency requirements we might look at the grandparents conditions and check whether they satisfy the requirements or not, Correct me plz if im wrong

any way im still looking for chances of delivering our child in the US but without sleeping at the street and without asking for help at the street and without putting my foot on the Jail road when i don't have money for the high cost bills .

Guys! the problem is i thought USA is better than this and no one will sleep at the street and any problem could be solved by some settelment between you and that side . unfortunately i dont see this even before i arrive at the US.

if it is a matter of little period of seperation from my wife, absolutely we can handle it but for weeks, month or two maximum but not for months or years.

i hope if some nice guy would direct me to the right way and provide any advice to the best solution for our case upon these circumestances which i have.

god belss VisaJourney and VJer's since it is the unique destination for our posts .

sorry for long story

and thanks in advance for sharing your idea with us.

-Rami

You can get medicaid if you do not make tons of money... they are flexible... come to the usa

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My mother is originally a US citizen and her parents also (she spent 25 years in the US)

My father is originally Jordanian but later he has the US citizenship ( he spent 18 years in the US)

I would also say, your child can be an USC:

"If your parent was a U.S. citizen when you were born but had not

lived in the U.S. for the required amount of time before your birth,

but one of your grandparents was also a U.S. citizen and had

already met the residence requirements, then you may still have

derived U.S. citizenship."

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/A4.pdf Page 2

I would also contact Departament of State with your question.

Good luck! :thumbs:

CR1 – I-130

Sent to NSC: 2/27/2007

Transfer to CSC - NOA 1: 3/5/2007

Touch: 3/12/2007

Touch: 4/17/2007

Touch: 4/18/2007

Approved: 8/27/2007 (181 days after filling)

Touch: 8/28/2007

Hardcopy date NOA2: 9/5/2007, received 9/10/2007

NVC received: 10/26/2007 (61 days after Approval!)

K 3 – I-129F

Sent to Chicago: 3/20/2007

NOA 1: 3/26/2007

Transfer to MSC (National Benefits Centre)

Touch: 3/28/2007

Touch: 3/29/2007

Touch: 4/11/2007

Transfer to CSC: 4/17/2007

Touch: 4/18/2007

Touch: 4/19/2007

Touch: 5/3/2007

Touch: 5/4/2007

Touch: 5/7/2007

Touch: 8/28/2007

RFE: 8/27/2007 (phone), 9/5/2007 (email), 9/15/2007 (received letter)

*** 129F still pending ***

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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Mexico
Timeline
I don't know if this helps. I am already in the US, my husband and I don't have health insurance as yet and I am 11 weeks pregnant however my baby qualified for medicaid and because I am carrying the baby I too qualify until the baby is born . My baby will continue to qualify for medicaid until he/she is one year old. So if you come to US to deliver your baby then I'm sure you will qualify especially since you are a US citizen. It also does not interfere with your aos. Good luck.

Are you sure this won't affect your AOS? We just went to an interview today for AOS and they asked if we ever received any assistance. We never have but isnt that why the USC has to sign the support form?

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Iran
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Hi Everyone

:help:

Here You Are !!!!!!!!! :dance:

is there any possibilty to provide us a list of hospitals where my wife can deliver our child

infact we are planning to reside in chicago

but the problem is we dont know any one there and we have money shortages

and we heared that birth may cost around $10,000 - $15,000 and maybe more

and this is a huge number for us to be handeled

for people who have experience in such things , is there a possibility to make some agreements with some hospital so they can take their fare as devided payments.

we spent so much time and effort on visa and now im affraid that i can't use it and istead of that stay at my country and find job here in my country and let my wife get birth also here

unfortunatley she doesn't meet the residency requirement to transfer the citizenship to our child immediately

so our child wont be a USC and by then we have to apply for I-130 petition for her/him

this is what the US embassy replied to us as follows :

" Hello,

If you deliver the baby outside USA, then you will have to apply for the I-130 for the baby. You can not transmit citizenship to the baby because you do not have the required period of residency in USA to do so.

Thank you.

ACS "

and my post to them was like follows : :crying:

"

Dear Madam/Sir

Im a US citizen, born in the US for two US Parents , but I lived in the US for five years only

Then my father took us to his origin country ( Jordan ) and we lived there for the rest of my live ( from age 5 till now , im 22 years old) .

My mother is originally a US citizen and her parents also (she spent 25 years in the US)

My father is originally Jordanian but later he has the US citizenship ( he spent 18 years in the US)

One year ago I got married from a Jordanian guy, and I got pregnant (21 weeks until now)

We applied for the I-130 application and they has issued him a CR1 visa , and he is planning to travel to the US by next month but without me, I'll stay here in Jordan till birth of my child

Now the question is :

If I deliver my child here in Jordan, what kind of process we have to go thru so the child can travel with me to the US later

Upon those circumstances is my child a US citizen , or we have to apply a petition for him

And If so, does such a petition take so much time or what

The problem that I don’t want to go to the US to get birth there becauseof we don’t have any health insurance there and my husband will go there and starts searching for jobs

So we are not clearly sure that we can handle the high cost of the hospitals in the US,

I know that we still have about 20 weeks till the Due Date and we are searching for jobs and domicile there in the US, and we hope everything goes smoothly so I could get birth in the US so my child is a US citizen immediately and no paperwork is needed by then.

But even thought I want to know what will happen if we decide to choose the other option which is getting birth outside the US.

Im so sorry for the long story and I hope that everything is clear and I hope if you answer these questions, because I searched for this issue in the US Gov websites but unfortunately without any result.

Thanks in advance for any help you would provide.

Yours,"

that was my story, but somewhere else i can't remember exactly where i think i red something like Act Exception on this issue , something like if the US parent/s don't meet the residency requirements we might look at the grandparents conditions and check whether they satisfy the requirements or not, Correct me plz if im wrong

any way im still looking for chances of delivering our child in the US but without sleeping at the street and without asking for help at the street and without putting my foot on the Jail road when i don't have money for the high cost bills .

Guys! the problem is i thought USA is better than this and no one will sleep at the street and any problem could be solved by some settelment between you and that side . unfortunately i dont see this even before i arrive at the US.

if it is a matter of little period of seperation from my wife, absolutely we can handle it but for weeks, month or two maximum but not for months or years.

i hope if some nice guy would direct me to the right way and provide any advice to the best solution for our case upon these circumestances which i have.

god belss VisaJourney and VJer's since it is the unique destination for our posts .

sorry for long story

and thanks in advance for sharing your idea with us.

-Rami

If I were you I would still not delay in coming to USA (you and your pregnant wife).

Then the thing to do is start asking all local charities about assistance programs for pre-natal care and clinics/hospitals. You may find you qualify for some assistance from them.

As for the hospitals....Hospitals can't refuse a patient because of their financial status. If you do end up in a big hospital for giving birth. The hospital will send you a bill AFTER. Not charge you before. Once the bill comes, negotiate a repayment plan with the hospital. So that you can pay $50.00 or $100.00 per month. Most hospitals are just happy to get the money.

ALSO....some hospitals have SLIDING SCALE fees for pregnancy care. (I remember this because I was making only a little money and I found out I qualified free pre-natal care at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston - but I wasn't pregnant...)

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Iran
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Hi Everyone

:help:

Here You Are !!!!!!!!! :dance:

is there any possibilty to provide us a list of hospitals where my wife can deliver our child

infact we are planning to reside in chicago

but the problem is we dont know any one there and we have money shortages

and we heared that birth may cost around $10,000 - $15,000 and maybe more

and this is a huge number for us to be handeled

for people who have experience in such things , is there a possibility to make some agreements with some hospital so they can take their fare as devided payments.

we spent so much time and effort on visa and now im affraid that i can't use it and istead of that stay at my country and find job here in my country and let my wife get birth also here

unfortunatley she doesn't meet the residency requirement to transfer the citizenship to our child immediately

so our child wont be a USC and by then we have to apply for I-130 petition for her/him

this is what the US embassy replied to us as follows :

" Hello,

If you deliver the baby outside USA, then you will have to apply for the I-130 for the baby. You can not transmit citizenship to the baby because you do not have the required period of residency in USA to do so.

Thank you.

ACS "

and my post to them was like follows : :crying:

"

Dear Madam/Sir

Im a US citizen, born in the US for two US Parents , but I lived in the US for five years only

Then my father took us to his origin country ( Jordan ) and we lived there for the rest of my live ( from age 5 till now , im 22 years old) .

My mother is originally a US citizen and her parents also (she spent 25 years in the US)

My father is originally Jordanian but later he has the US citizenship ( he spent 18 years in the US)

One year ago I got married from a Jordanian guy, and I got pregnant (21 weeks until now)

We applied for the I-130 application and they has issued him a CR1 visa , and he is planning to travel to the US by next month but without me, I'll stay here in Jordan till birth of my child

Now the question is :

If I deliver my child here in Jordan, what kind of process we have to go thru so the child can travel with me to the US later

Upon those circumstances is my child a US citizen , or we have to apply a petition for him

And If so, does such a petition take so much time or what

The problem that I don’t want to go to the US to get birth there becauseof we don’t have any health insurance there and my husband will go there and starts searching for jobs

So we are not clearly sure that we can handle the high cost of the hospitals in the US,

I know that we still have about 20 weeks till the Due Date and we are searching for jobs and domicile there in the US, and we hope everything goes smoothly so I could get birth in the US so my child is a US citizen immediately and no paperwork is needed by then.

But even thought I want to know what will happen if we decide to choose the other option which is getting birth outside the US.

Im so sorry for the long story and I hope that everything is clear and I hope if you answer these questions, because I searched for this issue in the US Gov websites but unfortunately without any result.

Thanks in advance for any help you would provide.

Yours,"

that was my story, but somewhere else i can't remember exactly where i think i red something like Act Exception on this issue , something like if the US parent/s don't meet the residency requirements we might look at the grandparents conditions and check whether they satisfy the requirements or not, Correct me plz if im wrong

any way im still looking for chances of delivering our child in the US but without sleeping at the street and without asking for help at the street and without putting my foot on the Jail road when i don't have money for the high cost bills .

Guys! the problem is i thought USA is better than this and no one will sleep at the street and any problem could be solved by some settelment between you and that side . unfortunately i dont see this even before i arrive at the US.

if it is a matter of little period of seperation from my wife, absolutely we can handle it but for weeks, month or two maximum but not for months or years.

i hope if some nice guy would direct me to the right way and provide any advice to the best solution for our case upon these circumestances which i have.

god belss VisaJourney and VJer's since it is the unique destination for our posts .

sorry for long story

and thanks in advance for sharing your idea with us.

-Rami

Financial Assistance Availability at University of Chicago Medical Center

The University of Chicago Medical Center (UCMC) recognizes that patients and their families may need help paying for services received here because either insufficient insurance coverage has not paid for the entire bill or no insurance is available.

Any patient with a balance related to care received here, or any person responsible for paying a patient bill for care received here (the guarantor) may request an application for financial assistance.

UCMC offers financial assistance discounts that may cover all or part of the patient balance(s) based on a verified financial need.

How to Request an Application for Financial Assistance

There are several different ways that a patient or a family member may request an application for financial assistance:

If you or a family member are currently an inpatient in our hospital, you may request an application for financial assistance by calling the Mitchell Hospital Admitting Office at (773) 702-6233 (or dial 2-7233 from the phone in the patient room).

You may stop at the front desk on the first floor of the Duchossois Center for Advanced Medicine and request an application for financial assistance.

At any time during your care here or after your care is complete, you or a family member may request an application for financial assistance by writing or calling one of the following addresses:

University of Chicago Medical Center

8201 S. Cass Avenue

Darien, Illinois 60561

(773) 702-6664

University of Chicago Physicians Group

P.O. Box 75307

Chicago, Illinois 60675-5307

(773) 702-1150

Social Work and Spiritual Care Department for UCMC

(Calls for financial assistance application requests should go to (773) 702-1810.)

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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Chile
Timeline

Catholic Charities of the Archdioces of Chicago

I used a Catholic charity (similar to the link I posted) when I was uninsured and pregnant with my daughter. You don't have to be Catholic to receive benefits. They covered all of my prenatal care and the birth +24 hours in the hospital for me and the baby. It was a godsend.

My blog

10/01/2005: Married in Toronto

02/15/2006: Began Canadian Immigration

09/19/2007: Withdrew CIC application (they still hadn't processed anything)

10/01/2007: Moved back to U.S.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IR-1 application through Montreal Consulate

10/26/2007: I-130 mailed to CA Service Center

10/29/2007: USPS confirmation of receipt of I-130

02/13/2008: NOA-1 received (107 days)

07/02/2008: I-130 approved

07/22/2008: AOS filed including EAD and AP

07/25/2008: NOA-1s for all 3 received

08/20/2008: Biometrics appointment

08/22/2008: Received RFE for Affadivit of Support and Medical

10/21/2008: Submitted I-865W in lieu of co-sponsor and medical info to NSC

11/14/2008: online case status not updated since filing of AOS in July 2008

01/20/2009: Received another RFE for Affadavit of Support Info

02/02/2009: Responded to RFE with brand new AOS based on 2008 tax return (if that doesn't shut them up, dunno what will)

02/19/2009: EAD card received in mail (no updates on Online Case Status ever made)

02/23/2009: AP received (again, no online updates)

02/26/2009: Received interview appointment letter for 4/6/09

04/06/2009: AOS approved for unconditional GC

04/21/2009: GC received

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Finland
Timeline

Why not find a midwife and have a home birth? Those are a lot cheaper and (in many ways) a lot safer than hospital births (less exposure to germs, less chance of having a cesearian, less chance of some crazy person running off with your baby...)

For detailed timeline, see member timeline data.

You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments: rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the universe.

--John Adams

j.jpg

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms.

--Ron Paul

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