My name ain't Stella....

[Marlita 0]

U.S Education - some of those inner city schools sound horrible...but there are good public schools out there. I find that black parents (not all of us) just don't question what is going on in our children's schools or do research to find good schools, sending one child to the local or zoned school nah mek it, if the school is garbarge . Nor is it encouraged, public schools could not push black students to vocational schools if the parents spoke up or while the school was pushing the parents pushed back and directed the children elsewhere. I absolutely hate asking a high school student what they want to be when the grow up and they have no answer. The public schools in my neighorborhood are dismal, well the scores are at any rate. the scores are so bad i was even doubtful of the gifted programs. lol

it seems as if its the poor who get screwed no matter what country u live in

Ditto..GARBAGE!!! the story of my life lately. We moved into a new school district. It has been a toal nightmare. My daughter hates the unaccredited neighborhood school in which she was placed. She was singled out by the school her so called school adviser when I called at ask about why she did she had not been given homework for three days. My daughter is used to doing at least an hours worth of homework every night in the A1 school disctict me moved from.....she was pulled out of class repremanded for coming home and telling me she had no home work. She was given a had written note for all of her teacher that said.."This student is to be given homework every day, she is required to stop to check in with the advisor to make sure she has homework. My daughter is the only one in her classes to recieve homework What kills me is it's just busy work, it dosne't apply to any of her subjects. It is surely sad. She will transfer our of the neighbor hood school in to a college prep middle school in which she had to test-in for enrollment. I just cannot believe how they treat her now that they know..she came fromt the school.."up north" she often comments on how she has to correct her math teacher...he responds with:"I'm glad somebody's finally listening" The elementary school is not any better, My son has almost 30 kids in his class, I don't see how she could be teaching them anything.

This is the exact issue my mother has in her classes. They keep piling the kids on her cause the district wants the money.

My younger BIL's are American from Montana and go to school in Jamaica now. They are 13 and 14. They told me they like the Jamaica schools more....for other reasons than just learning...but I noticed their school books and the subjects are alot more intense than what I've seen in the states. The 14 yearold was learning a level of spanish that I didnt get til late high school! Plus there are constantly these parent teacher conferences going on, so his dad always knows whats happening. The 14 year old was having a hard time grasping alot of the work. The 13 year old was fine. I must also mention that this is a highly acclaimed private school in Mobay so its not the same as the standard Jamaica schools. I think thats the reason why it may be so intense.

[phatmadame81 0]

hush you hearrrrrr , you tummy a hurt you , it soon finish okkkkkkkkkk

((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you Jawi..........

well thanks to you........

I took you'lls advice and yesterday before I left the stupid phone started ringing ( mind you I leave at 5 and at 4:56 the phone rang I was sooooooo pissed, but I answered, just in case it was the boss) and you would never guess who it was...............oh yes it was......him on teh other line.........mind you according to him he does not have my work number, he does not know where it is . after I was thruogh cursing him about calling me at work, and doing it right when he knows I am suppose to be leaving I said to him................

MI NUH KNOW WHY MI SIDDUNG YAH A PINE OVAH YOU ALL DEM YAH YEARS..YOU LIKKLE SINTING NEVAH DO A TING FI MI............ ( all said and done, I felt a little hurt after saying it) but, needless to say when I got home I had about 8 messages on my voicemail and he woke me up at 1:30 am, drunk has all get-up...slurring and all. Talking bout....how you a go seh dat bout di I and I................. You hurt mi feelings you nuh.

:lol: , I couldn't stop cracking up I came in all laughs this morning

[Marlita 0]

I'm not arguing that there are good and bad schools in both the US and Jamaica.

I went through the public school system here. My own kids have been in Catholic grade school and a few years ago transferred to the public school system. My kids are in St. Louis County schools. A few of my friends work for the St. Louis City Schools. I can equally praise and question things being done in the schools. They all have their good and their bad.

My concerns with the Jamaican schools are due to my nieces, nephews, SILs, and BIL. Some of the tales they tell make my head hurt. For instance.....My BIL was held back last school year because he failed, only to be promoted back up after 2 weeks of this school year. My nephew, who did not have a registered birth paper, nor any schooling before this school year was immediately put into a class with children his own age....children who have 4 years of schooling on him. I question these kinds of things. And, then, my husband has his own stories and opinions.

And regarding the JA testing.....The point of that article (December 14 Gleaner) and all subsequent articles up to today, for me, is that an alarming number are failing English. The math seemed to be an issue for some who pointed out what is the point of technical schools if math, the very basis of most, is not being passed.

I know this is a huge problem because it in honesty English can be treated as the second language for many people in Jamaica. english is a difficult language to master when you don't speak it day to day with your friends and family. I noticed in some of the Social Studies books of my BIL's that some things were explained in patois! Crazy huh? text books in patois. but then i understood that from the standpoint of explanantions saying something in patois may be an easier way of grabbing the concept vs saying it in "proper English"...Their classes still consisted of Standard English but patois was inserted at times to help the kids relate more. i thought that was a cool idea.

[Marlita 0]

JG,

We've had this convo before. I agree the Ja. educational system is sorely lacking in providing the same high standard of Education to all youth...regardless of their parents financial status! However, I think that the Jamaican Educational Structure (what is being taught, when it is introduced, how it is taught and introduced) far surpasses that of USA's Educational Structure. For example, we all know the best time to teach children new a complex concepts are when they are young. Foreign Languauge is a perfect example of this. It kills me that my school district (that I pay almost $8000 in taxes, BTW) refuses to introduce a language until 7th grade!!!! I have a international student from JA right now that is fluent in Spanish, French and German. She hopes to snag a job at the UN. So she has taken it upon herself to do a dual minor in Arabic & International Affairs! As well as her major in Political Science!

I attended my first few years of elementary school in the UK and by the time I was 7 I had been introduced to French and German! So now in a effort to make sure that my boys are prepared for the 2020 employment market I pay for outside lessons for my children to learn Spanish, Arabic and Chinese! Which in my opinion the first two should be mandatory that all public school children learn starting in Kindergarten! But we sit over here in our little bubble thinking..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Please don't even get me started on Bush's 'No Child Left Behind" B.S.!!! January 20, 2009 can't get here quick enough!

Anyway...back on topic yeah...Ja. has some fixing to do as far as an EQUAL EDUCATION FOR ALL (Hopefully Golding is on that)...But so does the U.S. and I hope we realize that we gotta make a change quick before it's too late!

Bless,

Gill

You are SOOOOO right on when it comes to language being taught too late here. I've taken years of Spanish since 8th grade, but wish I started earlier. I minored in Spanish cause I ain't crazy, an I know the value of speaking that language in this country!

I think thats AWESOME that you have your boys learn another language so early. I will definitely be doing that. When I was in high school I would watch Novelas and talk to my then 2-3 year old sister in Spanish and it was crazy how fast she was picking up on the language an learning Spanish just as fast as she was learning to speak English. But then I went away to college and she lost the ability. My husband is already beating it into me about me speaking patois and teaching it to our kids....

Just a little on the education topic,

I grew up in JA I was 15 when I moved here, I had just started 9th grade before we moved. When I came to start school I was placed in the 11th grade..I don't know what 10th grade is..not that it wasn't before of a placement test but my school records from JA. and still classes that I was doing didn't cover what I had already learned in JA. Again, school districts differ where I live now u don't need to send ur kids to private school that's how great the schools are, but where I used to live with the exception of 2 of the public school are ridiculous...but I think home work needs to be on a daily basis, how can u keep the information learned if there is no practice ?

[Marlita 0]

hush you hearrrrrr , you tummy a hurt you , it soon finish okkkkkkkkkk

((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you Jawi..........

well thanks to you........

I took you'lls advice and yesterday before I left the stupid phone started ringing ( mind you I leave at 5 and at 4:56 the phone rang I was sooooooo pissed, but I answered, just in case it was the boss) and you would never guess who it was...............oh yes it was......him on teh other line.........mind you according to him he does not have my work number, he does not know where it is . after I was thruogh cursing him about calling me at work, and doing it right when he knows I am suppose to be leaving I said to him................

MI NUH KNOW WHY MI SIDDUNG YAH A PINE OVAH YOU ALL DEM YAH YEARS..YOU LIKKLE SINTING NEVAH DO A TING FI MI............ ( all said and done, I felt a little hurt after saying it) but, needless to say when I got home I had about 8 messages on my voicemail and he woke me up at 1:30 am, drunk has all get-up...slurring and all. Talking bout....how you a go seh dat bout di I and I................. You hurt mi feelings you nuh.

:lol: , I couldn't stop cracking up I came in all laughs this morning

Wahhhaa! that's too funny! I can't believe that worked so well.

Ok I'm talking to myself again so gunna leave now.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Marlita

[Jengles 0]

hush you hearrrrrr , you tummy a hurt you , it soon finish okkkkkkkkkk

((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you Jawi..........

well thanks to you........

I took you'lls advice and yesterday before I left the stupid phone started ringing ( mind you I leave at 5 and at 4:56 the phone rang I was sooooooo pissed, but I answered, just in case it was the boss) and you would never guess who it was...............oh yes it was......him on teh other line.........mind you according to him he does not have my work number, he does not know where it is . after I was thruogh cursing him about calling me at work, and doing it right when he knows I am suppose to be leaving I said to him................

MI NUH KNOW WHY MI SIDDUNG YAH A PINE OVAH YOU ALL DEM YAH YEARS..YOU LIKKLE SINTING NEVAH DO A TING FI MI............ ( all said and done, I felt a little hurt after saying it) but, needless to say when I got home I had about 8 messages on my voicemail and he woke me up at 1:30 am, drunk has all get-up...slurring and all. Talking bout....how you a go seh dat bout di I and I................. You hurt mi feelings you nuh.

:lol: , I couldn't stop cracking up I came in all laughs this morning

BRAP! BRAP! BRAP! PULL-UP MY SELECTA!!!!!

Now catch the next move, next time him call and he will...tell him say u have date and can he watch your son...there will be silence on the phone and then in the silence just say, no ok, I'll find somebody else and hang up the phone

[*JG* 2]

I'm not arguing that there are good and bad schools in both the US and Jamaica.

I went through the public school system here. My own kids have been in Catholic grade school and a few years ago transferred to the public school system. My kids are in St. Louis County schools. A few of my friends work for the St. Louis City Schools. I can equally praise and question things being done in the schools. They all have their good and their bad.

My concerns with the Jamaican schools are due to my nieces, nephews, SILs, and BIL. Some of the tales they tell make my head hurt. For instance.....My BIL was held back last school year because he failed, only to be promoted back up after 2 weeks of this school year. My nephew, who did not have a registered birth paper, nor any schooling before this school year was immediately put into a class with children his own age....children who have 4 years of schooling on him. I question these kinds of things. And, then, my husband has his own stories and opinions.

And regarding the JA testing.....The point of that article (December 14 Gleaner) and all subsequent articles up to today, for me, is that an alarming number are failing English. The math seemed to be an issue for some who pointed out what is the point of technical schools if math, the very basis of most, is not being passed.

I know this is a huge problem because it in honesty English can be treated as the second language for many people in Jamaica. english is a difficult language to master when you don't speak it day to day with your friends and family. I noticed in some of the Social Studies books of my BIL's that some things were explained in patois! Crazy huh? text books in patois. but then i understood that from the standpoint of explanantions saying something in patois may be an easier way of grabbing the concept vs saying it in "proper English"...Their classes still consisted of Standard English but patois was inserted at times to help the kids relate more. i thought that was a cool idea.

Here's an interesting opinion I found in the Gleaner on Monday about this very subjet.......

LETTER OF THE DAY - English examination results no surprise

published: Sunday | December 16, 2007

The Editor, Sir:

Why should we find it so strange that there was a low percentage of success in English for the students who wrote the Caribbean Secondary Education Certificate (CSEC) examination? Your lead story of Friday, December 14, also stated that the pass rate in mathematics was also low, but I would like to reflect on English only in this article.

I have been appalled for many years when I visit secondary schools in Jamaica, to hear how few students speak English on campus. Whenever I complain about this, even 'educated' Jamaicans spurn my complaints. I have had the opportunity to talk with hundreds of Jamaican students about their non-use or poor use of English.

Often, I have been rebuked for my stand on the use of standard English, and then admonished about the goal and purpose of the local dialect - patois. I do agree that patois has its place, but look at what it does to students being successful in English!

The use of patois has been applauded by politicians, journalists and Jamaican academics who are already educated and have jobs.

These people already know how to use the English language to their advantage. Recently, at a Jamaica Labour Party meeting in Tivoli Gardens after the September election, The Gleaner quoted three politicians - two of whom spoke patois only, and one who spoke perfect English. I am sure that all three politicians were understood.

Must be spoken

But English must be spoken regularly to be written well. It is my opinion that schools should do as much as possible in teaching English; but as long as the majority of our students refuse to speak it regularly on a daily basis, the success in English in CSEC will continue to be low.

As a retired educator from the Canadian community-college system, I was asked on a regular basis, when I worked full time, to assist Jamaican and West Indian students as a whole, with getting them into English upgrading classes they were brilliant in all the other subjects.

I was quite frightened some time ago, when a brilliant Jamaican student informed me that she was expected to write the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL) exam usually done by students from non-English speaking countries applying to North American universities.

After some correspondence on my part with the university, she did not have to sit the exam. We have some responsibilities to manage this, because when North American universities and colleges start to consider Jamaica, as a non-English speaking country to allow our students to be admitted into their educational system, we are in trouble.

I am, etc.,

Dr. DUDLEY E. MORGAN

[phatmadame81 0]

hush you hearrrrrr , you tummy a hurt you , it soon finish okkkkkkkkkk

((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you Jawi..........

well thanks to you........

I took you'lls advice and yesterday before I left the stupid phone started ringing ( mind you I leave at 5 and at 4:56 the phone rang I was sooooooo pissed, but I answered, just in case it was the boss) and you would never guess who it was...............oh yes it was......him on teh other line.........mind you according to him he does not have my work number, he does not know where it is . after I was thruogh cursing him about calling me at work, and doing it right when he knows I am suppose to be leaving I said to him................

MI NUH KNOW WHY MI SIDDUNG YAH A PINE OVAH YOU ALL DEM YAH YEARS..YOU LIKKLE SINTING NEVAH DO A TING FI MI............ ( all said and done, I felt a little hurt after saying it) but, needless to say when I got home I had about 8 messages on my voicemail and he woke me up at 1:30 am, drunk has all get-up...slurring and all. Talking bout....how you a go seh dat bout di I and I................. You hurt mi feelings you nuh.

:lol: , I couldn't stop cracking up I came in all laughs this morning

BRAP! BRAP! BRAP! PULL-UP MY SELECTA!!!!!

Now catch the next move, next time him call and he will...tell him say u have date and can he watch your son...there will be silence on the phone and then in the silence just say, no ok, I'll find somebody else and hang up the phone

That would probably work if he was here.

Gimme a differnet one.

[Jengles 0]

Gil,

I hear you on the languages, my son's daycare taught swahalli, i must admit at first i was like why can't they learn spanish and even now he still remembers. I had a math teacher once who said that Math was a language and once you mastered two languages, you could easily pick up math, which was why so many foreign students did better in Math.

brownskinn,

30 kids in an elementary school is crazy...they have zero attention span, so if you not looking like you are involved you are probably ignored.

Jomogirl,

Intresting article and I agree. the only time I hear proper english spoken in JA is in banks, hotels and dem kind of places and the only time i read it is on those govt road signs "speed kills". Luckily i live in a west indian community but i have to re-enforce to mr jengles that he must speak english, when dealing with other people, but it don't help when the korean man understand patios...lol

it needs to be re-enforced outside the school.

hush you hearrrrrr , you tummy a hurt you , it soon finish okkkkkkkkkk

((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you Jawi..........

well thanks to you........

I took you'lls advice and yesterday before I left the stupid phone started ringing ( mind you I leave at 5 and at 4:56 the phone rang I was sooooooo pissed, but I answered, just in case it was the boss) and you would never guess who it was...............oh yes it was......him on teh other line.........mind you according to him he does not have my work number, he does not know where it is . after I was thruogh cursing him about calling me at work, and doing it right when he knows I am suppose to be leaving I said to him................

MI NUH KNOW WHY MI SIDDUNG YAH A PINE OVAH YOU ALL DEM YAH YEARS..YOU LIKKLE SINTING NEVAH DO A TING FI MI............ ( all said and done, I felt a little hurt after saying it) but, needless to say when I got home I had about 8 messages on my voicemail and he woke me up at 1:30 am, drunk has all get-up...slurring and all. Talking bout....how you a go seh dat bout di I and I................. You hurt mi feelings you nuh.

:lol: , I couldn't stop cracking up I came in all laughs this morning

BRAP! BRAP! BRAP! PULL-UP MY SELECTA!!!!!

Now catch the next move, next time him call and he will...tell him say u have date and can he watch your son...there will be silence on the phone and then in the silence just say, no ok, I'll find somebody else and hang up the phone

That would probably work if he was here.

Gimme a differnet one.

tell him he can't call the house phone no more because your man don't like it.

[Jengles 0]

Gil,

I hear you on the languages, my son's daycare taught swahalli, i must admit at first i was like why can't they learn spanish and even now he still remembers. I had a math teacher once who said that Math was a language and once you mastered two languages, you could easily pick up math, which was why so many foreign students did better in Math.

brownskinn,

30 kids in an elementary school is crazy...they have zero attention span, so if you not looking like you are involved you are probably ignored.

Jomogirl,

Intresting article and I agree. the only time I hear proper english spoken in JA is in banks, hotels and dem kind of places and the only time i read it is on those govt road signs "speed kills". Luckily i live in a west indian community but i have to re-enforce to mr jengles that he must speak english, when dealing with other people, but it don't help when the korean man understand patios...lol

it needs to be re-enforced outside the school.

hush you hearrrrrr , you tummy a hurt you , it soon finish okkkkkkkkkk

((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you Jawi..........

well thanks to you........

I took you'lls advice and yesterday before I left the stupid phone started ringing ( mind you I leave at 5 and at 4:56 the phone rang I was sooooooo pissed, but I answered, just in case it was the boss) and you would never guess who it was...............oh yes it was......him on teh other line.........mind you according to him he does not have my work number, he does not know where it is . after I was thruogh cursing him about calling me at work, and doing it right when he knows I am suppose to be leaving I said to him................

MI NUH KNOW WHY MI SIDDUNG YAH A PINE OVAH YOU ALL DEM YAH YEARS..YOU LIKKLE SINTING NEVAH DO A TING FI MI............ ( all said and done, I felt a little hurt after saying it) but, needless to say when I got home I had about 8 messages on my voicemail and he woke me up at 1:30 am, drunk has all get-up...slurring and all. Talking bout....how you a go seh dat bout di I and I................. You hurt mi feelings you nuh.

:lol: , I couldn't stop cracking up I came in all laughs this morning

BRAP! BRAP! BRAP! PULL-UP MY SELECTA!!!!!

Now catch the next move, next time him call and he will...tell him say u have date and can he watch your son...there will be silence on the phone and then in the silence just say, no ok, I'll find somebody else and hang up the phone

That would probably work if he was here.

Gimme a differnet one.

tell him he can't call the house phone no more because your man don't like it and den change the voice/answering maching message to "we aren't here right now"

[Yaads 0]

tell him he can't call the house phone no more because your man don't like it and den change the voice/answering maching message to "we aren't here right now"

And I would get a guy friend to record the new answering machine message...make sure he talks super sexy

[Jengles 0]

tell him he can't call the house phone no more because your man don't like it and den change the voice/answering maching message to "we aren't here right now"

And I would get a guy friend to record the new answering machine message...make sure he talks super sexy

good idea...trust me...he will have a whole different tone is his voice after dat.

[JaEnglishGirl 34]

Hi everyone. Lifes been hectic lately, its all I can do to get on once and awhile and try to catch up. Works crazy busy but hey I'm not complaining, overtime $$ is nice. I haven't had any contact with the ex. I changed my cell # and he's called the house a few times but I didn't return the calls. Trying to move on as much as it sucks.

Heyyy!!

Nice to see you around, and so glad you're managing to continue being strong!!!!!!

The more time passes, the easier it gets, trust me I've been there done that!!

[shrewdgal 0]

U.S Education - some of those inner city schools sound horrible...but there are good public schools out there. I find that black parents (not all of us) just don't question what is going on in our children's schools or do research to find good schools, sending one child to the local or zoned school nah mek it, if the school is garbarge . Nor is it encouraged, public schools could not push black students to vocational schools if the parents spoke up or while the school was pushing the parents pushed back and directed the children elsewhere. I absolutely hate asking a high school student what they want to be when the grow up and they have no answer. The public schools in my neighorborhood are dismal, well the scores are at any rate. the scores are so bad i was even doubtful of the gifted programs. lol

it seems as if its the poor who get screwed no matter what country u live in

Ditto..GARBAGE!!! the story of my life lately. We moved into a new school district. It has been a toal nightmare. My daughter hates the unaccredited neighborhood school in which she was placed. She was singled out by the school her so called school adviser when I called at ask about why she did she had not been given homework for three days. My daughter is used to doing at least an hours worth of homework every night in the A1 school disctict me moved from.....she was pulled out of class repremanded for coming home and telling me she had no home work. She was given a had written note for all of her teacher that said.."This student is to be given homework every day, she is required to stop to check in with the advisor to make sure she has homework. My daughter is the only one in her classes to recieve homework What kills me is it's just busy work, it dosne't apply to any of her subjects. It is surely sad. She will transfer our of the neighbor hood school in to a college prep middle school in which she had to test-in for enrollment. I just cannot believe how they treat her now that they know..she came fromt the school.."up north" she often comments on how she has to correct her math teacher...he responds with:"I'm glad somebody's finally listening" The elementary school is not any better, My son has almost 30 kids in his class, I don't see how she could be teaching them anything.

That is tough. I have read many comments on our education versus the education in JA and some points I agree with and some I disagree with. Upfront I will say I have taught "innercity" where we were DEEP in the ghetto and I have taught in an upperclass university town and am currently in a title one (high percentage of free lunches..so basically low income) school in a small country town. Within the U.S. the schools are different in themselves.

I have also taught in JA schools and 2 of my aunts are JA teachers and one a principal.

What I will say is that whether education in JA or education in the US is better cannot be perfectly judged because we teach very different things. Jamaica does teach more advanced Science and MAth at an early age, however the US is changing in the Math department. I was on a board for my State's SOL review and the smaller strands of algebra are practiced (not just introduced) in 3rd grade. Geometry is studied in 1st grade. Earlier if you consider learning shapes. I think as a country we are lacking in this area.

As far as innercity schools having less funding this is not always true. All public schools are eligible for Title One Grants and Reading First grants. MAny other grants, where this money goes is often specifically stated so you end up with somewhat of a see-saw patched up improvement.

I also know I spent some time this summer tutoring a summer school in JA and the students (equivalent to our 5th grade - 4 year I think they are called) did not know things that I know for sure our students have been taught. BUT the students still had more expectations of what they independently did at school than our US students, therefore it would appear they retain more of what they learn..if that makes any sense?

I encourage all of you to get involved in a school or education program in your community as you all seem very passionate.

There is sooo much more I want to say but it would just stop making sense..if it hasnt already...hahaha

[JaEnglishGirl 34]

Having gone to school in Jamaica, my two cents on the education debate are as follows.

The standard of education in Jamaica is HUGELY influenced by the school you go to.

There is a REAL disparity between schools, technical high schools as mentioned in the article, start at grade 9, the kids who go there did not pass their exams to go to high schools. Therefore, the results are historically going to be bad.

As for the low passes in English, the problem I believe is the fact patois is similar to English, but the structure is MILES apart, which can be extremely confusing.

Ie, in patois ' Him a go school' in English 'He is going to school'.

The sentence is quite similar, ie, in French or Spanish would be HUGELY different, so hence the confusion in that they are enough alike to cause confusion rather than aid comprehension.