Civil marriage in Egypt

[Sofiyya 1,687]

orfy marriage at all,is a secret marriage,and its disrespectfulness from man to marry his girl

Good for you!

[polarbear 0]

Basically, if you want it legal, you are going to have to apply for a K-1 visa and get married here.

As far as I know there is no way to get legally married (recognized by either the Egyptian or US governments) in Egypt at this time..... Trust me, I've looked....

And the visas are just as long and hard for spouse or fiance, there are just different benefits for each.

[wael253 0]

"marriage" and "urfy" should not be used in the same sentence.

"Orfy Marriage" according to Islamic rules and the sharea'a is considered marriage also under certain circumstance as in the case of the birth of a child and the father denies he is the parent. If this occurs the "Orfy" paper will be used to start a case at the Ministry of Justice to prove that he is indeed the father which is a long drawn out process with lawyers and sometimes hard to prove.

BUT BUT BUT

FIRST ... THE AMERICAN EMBASSY DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THIS TYPE OF MARRIAGE

SECOND ... 9 OF 10 TIMES THE EGYPTIAN MINISTRY OF JUSTICE DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THIS TYPE OF MARRIAGE

THIRD ....WHEN YOU APPLY FOR A K1 VISA YOU SHOULD NOT BE CURRENTLY MARRIED FROM THE PETITIONER

Sharia does not recognize urfi "marriage", but extremist clerics make that claim, which is highly debateable. The basics of urfi "marriage" - secrecy, inequality of benefits, that it is entered into for sexual convenience that can be dissolved by one party w/little recourse for the other, usually the woman - make it comparable to muta, and Sunni law does not recognize muta marriage.

Although such religious claims are made, it is civil venues in Egypt which handle these situations and are still developing laws to try to bring the rights of each party into balance. Yet, it is the women who are abandoned who predominantly bear the social stigma of these arrangements and still fight to legitimize the children they bore. This is not how God's law is intented to work, so no blame for the fruits of vain desires should be laid at His feet, nor should the recommendation to enter into such arrangements be considered valid advice here.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/833/eg12.htm

Ties made better

The law now recognises women's right to seek divorce from an urfi marriage and the children of such a union can be issued birth certificates. Reem Leila says the state is making life easier for the couples involved and their offspring The Administrative Court has ruled that children born to PARENTS MARRIED ACCORDING TO AN URFI OR UNREGISTERED CONTRACT are eligible for birth certificates. Coupled with the new personal status law which recognises women's right to seek divorce from an urfi marriage, and the result is a rescue effort by the government in what it acknowledges is a hugely controversial issue.

There are hundreds of thousands of illegitimate children in the country, with some 14,000 paternity cases currently being tried in Egyptian courts. Mona Zulfiqar, an active feminist and a lawyer, says 9,000 such cases result from SO-CALLED URFI MARRIAGES WHICH ARE NOT REGISTERED WITH THE AUTHORITIES.... These marriages, which require only a contract and two witnesses, are becoming increasingly common among young people unable to afford the high cost of marriage and seek to legitimise sexual relationships.

The mothers of urfi children must also deal with social stigmas. In many cases, young women who become pregnant from urfi marriages must choose between illegal abortions, abandoning their children or be an unwed mother, which is socially taboo. There is also the possibility that "may be her father or brother will kill her if she has a baby out of wedlock," Zulfiqar said. "Accordingly, the court's ruling will save many mothers and children from the social stigma."

Zulfiqar said that before the year 2000 an urfi marriage was not even recognised. But it has become increasingly common, especially among young people and university students, although no official statistics exist.

"Law 1/2000 recognises that women can produce proof of an urfi marriage in court and can ask for a divorce although they are granted no alimony or child support," Zulfiqar said.

Since no official records are kept, urfi marriages can put women in a particularly precarious position. Stories of men destroying or hiding an urfi contract are not uncommon. Without the contract, a woman cannot prove she is married. She cannot get a divorce and might find it risky to remarry should her first husband produce the document later on, in which case she would be accused of bigamy.

Without a birth certificate, a child has no access to state-run healthcare or schooling. He cannot get a passport and consequently, is forbidden from leaving the country. Egyptian law requires that fathers or any parental relative have in their possession their children's birth certificates. Therefore, children of urfi marriages "grow up without a name and without being cared for by the government unless the father recognises the child and registers him," says Fawzeya Abdel-Sattar, professor of law at Cairo University.

Zulfiqar says an URFI MARRIAGE IS AN UNOFFICIAL BUT LEGITIMATE She says it is acceptable under certain conditions -- a man whose wife is ill and who wants to get married without upsetting his spouse; a widow who wants to get married but without embarrassing her grown-up children; a widow who collects her husband's pension but wants to remarry.

Despite the Administrative Court's ruling, women must still clear legal and administrative hurdles. "In case the father refuses to issue a birth certificate for his child, which is the norm, the mother then files a suit asking the court to grant her official recognition of her child. The mother then goes to the Civil Status Organisation for a birth certificate for the child," Abdel-Sattar said.

Basically, if you want it legal, you are going to have to apply for a K-1 visa and get married here.

As far as I know there is no way to get legally married (recognized by either the Egyptian or US governments) in Egypt at this time..... Trust me, I've looked....

And the visas are just as long and hard for spouse or fiance, there are just different benefits for each.

[dawnnhatem 0]

Off topic here, I know but

There are hundreds of thousands of illegitimate children in the country, with some 14,000 paternity cases currently being tried in Egyptian courts. Mona Zulfiqar, an active feminist and a lawyer, says 9,000 such cases result from SO-CALLED URFI MARRIAGES WHICH ARE NOT REGISTERED WITH THE AUTHORITIES.... [

thats just crazy. with consequenses like those, who is raising hundreds of thousnds of men that would do that to a woman? Don't these men have mothers? Thats the part I don't get

[Caladan 19]

Let's be clear about terminology. Usually by 'civil marriage' we mean the *legal* entity of marriage (as opposed to a ceremonial or religious aspect of it). If you are civilly married, you are legally married. And if you're legally married in Egypt, you're not eligible for a K-1. You'd have to file for a K-3 or CR-1.

From my limited understanding of Islam, marriage is primarily (if not solely) a legal contract, so an Islamic marriage in secret makes about as much sense as saying there's a secret contract that no one's written down and no one can enforce. But whatever the case may be, the U.S. doesn't recognize that sort of marriage as counting as marriage for immigration purposes, so if you went that route, you could do a K-1.

[ya falaha! 0]

If you register the "urfi" with the court then it is legal in Egypt (rights given to the wife and the marriage is recognized in Egypt) but not in the US. Without the no objection statement being issued by the US consulate, civil marriage recognized in the US is not possible at the moment. There is at least one member here that has done this (registered Islamic marriage) and her husband came here on a K1. Not something I would do but it is an option.

Edited October 11, 2007 by moody

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Urfi isn't a marriage until it's recognized by the state, then, it becomes a civil marriage. There is nothing Islamic about it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Zulfiqar says an urfi marriage is an unofficial but legitimate arrangement.

Yea, and the earth is flat. The opinons of some legal professionals aren't worth the time spent reading them.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Green-eyed girl