221g

[cbd2cai 0]

Thank you, MK and Sharon, for your thoughtful and thought provoking posts on this topic. It provides much food for thought. I think I can understand a bit from both sides of this issue as a person who is involved with many people from the ME (not just one husband of fairly recent history) and also being raised in the southern part of the United States (Catholic would you believe surrounded by Baptists).

Hmmmm, I like to think that I have become a more global thinker than some of the ppl I grew up with as I have always done a lot of reading outside of the usual school assignment type stuff. When I have met ppl from other countries, I usually have found books on their history and fiction (when possible) to gain a better understanding of the various issues that face all of us (whether we want to admit it or not).

Sometimes I am appalled by comments my mother makes about everyone else in the world except for a specific group in the U.S. LOL!!! Sometimes I am appalled by comments an Egyptian friend makes about other groups of people in the world, or an Iranian friend makes about other people in the world. Then I meet refugees from all over the world and see what racism, prejudice and greed has done to whole groups of people . . . and we have refugees from both sides of a conflict sometimes who have relocated to the U.S. to get a better life and try to live in peace.

I wish that personal opinions didn't get in the way of anyone getting what they want in life . . . but I think that is not likely to happen anytime soon. All we can hope for is the strength to get us through the challenges that we need to meet.

Catherine

[fatimah 0]

good comments Liz and Barbara!!

[iceyspots 0]

Iceyspots.... a quick interruption to make an important correction.

I certainly did NOT say that couples in Muslim-Jewish marriages are ostracized by "both families." I said that they are ostracized in Israel, but accepted by Palestinians in the West Bank. Please re-read my post.

Carry on....

-MK

I copied and pasted exactly what you said pretty much, and underlined ostracized.. but.. meeting with a lot of people and asking their opinion, the muslim family wouldn't accept the girl unless she converted to Islam. West bank may be different, but I wasn't talking specifically about palestine.

Edited April 7, 2006 by iceyspots

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Iceyspots.... a quick interruption to make an important correction.

I certainly did NOT say that couples in Muslim-Jewish marriages are ostracized by "both families." I said that they are ostracized in Israel, but accepted by Palestinians in the West Bank. Please re-read my post.

Carry on....

-MK

I copied and pasted exactly what you said pretty much, and underlined ostracized.. but.. meeting with a lot of people and asking their opinion, the muslim family wouldn't accept the girl unless she converted to Islam. West bank may be different, but I wasn't talking specifically about palestine.

Actually, I was referring to this:

I'm not saying a Jewish-Muslim wedding is impossible, it's just pretty rare, and, in the ME/NA, when it does happen, like one stated before, the couples are ostracized by both families.

Since I am the one who used the term "ostracized," I wanted to clear any confusion over what I had said. If you were not referring to me here, my apologies.

-MK

[tatedaoudi 0]

On a completely different note, do you think a 2 and a half quart crock pot is big enough to make a tagine in? Or should I just make it over the stove?

Sharon this totally made my night...i have been back tracking reading these past postings trying to digest them and I stumble across this.

My tajine thought...size doesnt matter...you can make a small tajine or a big one....so go with the crock and try it. Oddly enough I was contemplating crock pots and tajines today...wondering if it would be a happy relationship. anyone try it?

[cbd2cai 0]

On a completely different note, do you think a 2 and a half quart crock pot is big enough to make a tagine in? Or should I just make it over the stove?

Sharon this totally made my night...i have been back tracking reading these past postings trying to digest them and I stumble across this.

My tajine thought...size doesnt matter...you can make a small tajine or a big one....so go with the crock and try it. Oddly enough I was contemplating crock pots and tajines today...wondering if it would be a happy relationship. anyone try it?

LOL!!! Trying to keep it off-topic are we???

Never made a tagine . . .. but if it is possible to make it in a crock pot, then sounds like a good idea to me. Is it like a stew? Crock pots are great for stews and soups!

[honeyblonde 0]

On a completely different note, do you think a 2 and a half quart crock pot is big enough to make a tagine in? Or should I just make it over the stove?

Sharon this totally made my night...i have been back tracking reading these past postings trying to digest them and I stumble across this.

My tajine thought...size doesnt matter...you can make a small tajine or a big one....so go with the crock and try it. Oddly enough I was contemplating crock pots and tajines today...wondering if it would be a happy relationship. anyone try it?

LOL!!! Trying to keep it off-topic are we???

Never made a tagine . . .. but if it is possible to make it in a crock pot, then sounds like a good idea to me. Is it like a stew? Crock pots are great for stews and soups!

I've been experimenting with all kinds of things in the crockpot and have done two Moroccan type dishes that Abdel loved. One was kindof like our pot roast, but I added in the other vegetables and spices to make it Moroccan. The other was a chicken with green beans and almonds. Abdel has taught me the correct spices to put with each kind of meat to make them come out Moroccan, and of course always use olive oil and lots of peppers.

Last night I did a Sirloin Tip Roast (about 4 pounds) with a big can of diced tomatoes (about 28 ounce I think, undrained), 2 Knorr beef bouillon cubes (they're bigger than wylers), 2 cans green chili sauce, 1 chopped onion, about a tablespoon of chopped garlic, fresh ground pepper and cumin. I think that's it. We let that cook almost 24 hours then shredded the meat and stirred in 2 cups of rice. In about 1 hour we had a pretty awesome dinner. I wish I'd have remembered to add some peppers and a touch of olive oil but it really was fine without them. The green chili sauce gave it enough of a tang to be spicy enough for us.

[cbd2cai 0]

[Last night I did a Sirloin Tip Roast (about 4 pounds) with a big can of diced tomatoes (about 28 ounce I think, undrained), 2 Knorr beef bouillon cubes (they're bigger than wylers), 2 cans green chili sauce, 1 chopped onion, about a tablespoon of chopped garlic, fresh ground pepper and cumin. I think that's it. We let that cook almost 24 hours then shredded the meat and stirred in 2 cups of rice. In about 1 hour we had a pretty awesome dinner. I wish I'd have remembered to add some peppers and a touch of olive oil but it really was fine without them. The green chili sauce gave it enough of a tang to be spicy enough for us.

Yummm, Liz, that sounds good. What kind of peppers do Moroccans like? I was over buying some plants and seeds for my little garden and bought several variety of peppers: serrano, jalapeno, ancho, cayenne . . . but I'm not exactly sure which ones Ahmed was getting except they were small and green, LOL!!! Oh, and you can get diced tomatoes with chillies in them too!! But I'll have to remember the green chili sauce too. Rotel makes some different levels of "HOT" diced tomatoes. Really good for cooking and making queso dip!! LOL!!! Have you tried that one on Abdel???

[ohiobuck 0]

Do you think there is any reason why they would doubt the relationship? Did she look at the evidence? How many times did you meet? Did you meet any of the red flags ?

I have known Mouhcine from January 2005, we spoke everyday(phone, yahoo, msn). I have all the records. I sent like 200 photos from the time I was there in August 2005(12 days) and January 2006 (11days). She looked at all the paper work my job letter, taxes, divorce decrees...... She questioned him 30 mins and interogated him when she saw I was born in Israel. She asked if I am Jewish, then asked him if he is muslim. THen she asked him how his family would accept me as his wife being Jewish and her face got bright red and her eyes popped out. She then threw back all his papers and told him to leave. She gave him no chance of talking.

I tried to call Casa yesterday several times, I am sure I had her on the phone at one point. She never gave me her name. I told her I wanted to speak with Mr Mckeever and each time I called he was never at his desk. They kept telling me to email. I sent 3, so far no responses.

Today I called Casa again. I was firm and asked for Mr Mckeever. I got disconnected like 3 times and finally got put on hold and a man picked up. I told him I wanted to know about my fiance's interview and he said to email, I then asked him why the CO asked of our religion and that it is racial and prejudice to bring that up in a interview. He then got irritated and told me that I need to email and that the consulate does not get enough money from the state to answer phone calls and to report it to my congress that they are short money. I then asked him his name - Mr Matthew Mckeever himself.

We had no red flags, no reason at all to deny us. I will be fighting this, and I am going back to Morocco next month.

Leila

Leila,

I feel bad that your visa was denied but don't lie about your case and say you don't have red flags when you know you admitted earlier you have a couple very big red flags. Are you just trying to get sympathy from these people and scaring others that don't have red flags so they can't understand why the CO probably denied your visa????????????????

1) Divorced several times, and you have already sponsored on ex-husband who is in the states now because you have processed him through the immigration system. If this is not a huge red flag I am not sure what is. You could easily look like someone being used or being paid to marry and bring immigrants into the US.

2) If I remember right you have a at least a 12+ year age difference. Anything over 10 years is a red flag based on Sec. 212 reasons a CO can use to deny.

Please do not lie to these people in this group, these people are scared enough about their cases and if you are leaving important information out that you do have red flags gives others more reason to worry and freak out about their own cases.

My husband got his K3 visa through Morocco, and I know about about the issues and I don't think the Moroccan Consulate is perfect and they do make mistakes. But I also believe this Consulate has a very important job and Morocco is a high volume for fraud. And I do not blame the CO one bit for seeing your red flags and who knows how your Fiancee answered the questions to decide to send it back to see if your will prove your case. I respect the Moroccan Consulate for not just giving every single visa out and actually taking their position seriously. Just because we are American citizens doesn't gaurantee our spouses a visa, especially if the CO who can see our cases more honestly than we ourselves can see it.

I hope I have not offended anyone. I just want to assure that no one is freaking out others goign through this case, if you lie you make others see no hope or logic in how the Moroccan Consulate. Yes good couples get denied unfairly but I have heard of enough other cases that I can understand why the CO might have denied the visa so please be honest so you are not scaring people unnecessary just so you can get 100% false simpathy. We have a good group in Visa Journey and you will get support anyway and help in how to fix it even with red flags, but nto telling the truth will not help anyone.

We need to share information honestly so we can all learn how to win over this process to get our visa asap and to be together with our love ones, not to freak others out with false information just to get false simpathy.

P

[AngelK96 0]

if what you are saying is right, then she had 8 pages of posts some not so nice.. meaning two people where bickering back and forth in this thread. to be honest this Middle East forum/ North African forum use to be where people came for information and shared information. and try to help each other if they could. It was sad to see how out of control this thread had gotten. We all have to right to express our opinions like i stated earlier but things totally gotten out of control here.

Angel

[cbd2cai 0]

LOL, Angel, I think that is why some of us have been trying to deflect it by going off-topic!

[Bosco 1]

I personally think it is unnecessary to publicly share personal details about another person's situation that they have chosen not to disclose to the forum. I understand you are trying to look out for the people with interviews coming up and I appreciate that, but everyone here should realize that they don't know all the details of another person's case. They only know what that person chooses to share.

Everything in this forum should be read keeping in mind that we are possibly being told only part of the story. For that matter, the petitioner only knows what the beneficiary has chosen to share. The interview is interpreted through the eyes of the petitioner who may or may not fully comprehend the questions he has been asked, and may not even realize that his answers have raised questions.

I don't think people should come here and intentionally or unintentionally mislead other people about their case (and I am NOT accusing Leila of this) but I think the responsibility lies on the reader to take any messages they read with a grain of salt.

Rebecca

[ohiobuck 0]

I questioned if I should post what I posted, but I was only posting what she had posted in past posting herself and was frustrated she would leave them out now when her case has gone bad. Thus resulting in misled people and people freaking out. You were right in what you said that people should realize people do not share all and it might mislead people. And I had kept quiet before but when I came back today to read up on the postings since I last read I grew worried how people might being seeing this as a case with no red flags. In short I was in the shoes so many are in now, waiting for my husbands interview and hearing from others their cases were denied for no reason freaked me out and gave me so much to worry about. I tried very hard to keep my mind open that these people were not always sharing but it doesn't stop you from worry. In time I realized most had red flags and just wasn't being honest with people so I know I seemed tackless for speaking up and sharing personal information, but I didn't want someone freaking out like I did. This is too scary of a process to drop non-exploiding bombs that only kills our belief in our own cases to get our love ones here with us.

I am sorry if I offended anyone and that you understand my only hope is to keep hope going in those hard immigration process.

Leila,

Please keep hope, contact your Congressman in your area and your two state Senators and make sure all three of them have your written authorization as soon as possible. Write me if you need a form, I have some from other representatives, you could change the names and fax to their office so Monday Monday they can help you if they have not already started to help you. Keep trying to call the consulate, but it seems e-mails work better. Write a good e-mail this weekend so the Consulate will receive it Monday morning when they open up. Make sure you write the letter professionally , respectfully and explain you are a true relationship and need a chance to fix this problem before it is sent back to the US. Tell them will gladly do anything they need of you to prove your relationship is true and hope they will do this. They know the rules so please don't insult them by pointing fingers how they broke the law and how the question on how your fiancee could marry you since you are jewish will probably only insult the person at the Consulate (don't forget they are a team it doesn't matter if it is the woman that gave the interview or someone else, if you attack one of them you might as well attack all of them), you want them to want to help you so watch your tone and words in your e-mail.

About getting a lawyer that is maybe a good ideal since they have contact information that we as normal US Citizens do not have to get ahold of the Consulates, NVC and etc. But even with that they might not be much help, plus you should've had them calling the day after the interview not a week later. So if you are going to get anything done you need everyone calling and working on your behafe on Monday and no later. Spend this weekend writing good professional e-mails to the Consulate, Senators, Congressman and find a lawyer if you haven't found one already. In short you should've had all this set up last week the day after the interview to have the best chance of getting this reversed, but don't give up go into overdrive and get this done. In short work your ### off.

I wish you the best on your case, I truly do. The reason I wrote what I did is I don't want anyone freaking out and not seeing the truth in how the Consulate works so we can all be successful at getting our visas.

Good Luck,

P

I personally think it is unnecessary to publicly share personal details about another person's situation that they have chosen not to disclose to the forum. I understand you are trying to look out for the people with interviews coming up and I appreciate that, but everyone here should realize that they don't know all the details of another person's case. They only know what that person chooses to share.

Everything in this forum should be read keeping in mind that we are possibly being told only part of the story. For that matter, the petitioner only knows what the beneficiary has chosen to share. The interview is interpreted through the eyes of the petitioner who may or may not fully comprehend the questions he has been asked, and may not even realize that his answers have raised questions.

I don't think people should come here and intentionally or unintentionally mislead other people about their case (and I am NOT accusing Leila of this) but I think the responsibility lies on the reader to take any messages they read with a grain of salt.

Rebecca

[babybunny 2]

ok Leila has dubage in the closet. That dont mean that her case cant be over turned!

I thought she got her petition returned on a 221g. not 212. am I correct?

221g is a Temp denial. coz the title is 221g. anywho. I think its Fckkkkcc up to be spreading her

past like this. I had been accused of similar things by the USICS. I over came it. I dont know Leila ,never met her , never had a converstation with this lady. I certainly hate this type of stuff really. The most painful thing in this process is a dayum denial. she needs support for sure. those that have been denied know what I am saying.

[babybunny 2]

I questioned if I should post what I posted, but I was only posting what she had posted in past posting herself and was frustrated she would leave them out now when her case has gone bad. Thus resulting in misled people and people freaking out. You were right in what you said that people should realize people do not share all and it might mislead people. And I had kept quiet before but when I came back today to read up on the postings since I last read I grew worried how people might being seeing this as a case with no red flags. In short I was in the shoes so many are in now, waiting for my husbands interview and hearing from others their cases were denied for no reason freaked me out and gave me so much to worry about. I tried very hard to keep my mind open that these people were not always sharing but it doesn't stop you from worry. In time I realized most had red flags and just wasn't being honest with people so I know I seemed tackless for speaking up and sharing personal information, but I didn't want someone freaking out like I did. This is too scary of a process to drop non-exploiding bombs that only kills our belief in our own cases to get our love ones here with us.

I am sorry if I offended anyone and that you understand my only hope is to keep hope going in those hard immigration process.

Leila,

Please keep hope, contact your Congressman in your area and your two state Senators and make sure all three of them have your written authorization as soon as possible. Write me if you need a form, I have some from other representatives, you could change the names and fax to their office so Monday Monday they can help you if they have not already started to help you. Keep trying to call the consulate, but it seems e-mails work better. Write a good e-mail this weekend so the Consulate will receive it Monday morning when they open up. Make sure you write the letter professionally , respectfully and explain you are a true relationship and need a chance to fix this problem before it is sent back to the US. Tell them will gladly do anything they need of you to prove your relationship is true and hope they will do this. They know the rules so please don't insult them by pointing fingers how they broke the law and how the question on how your fiancee could marry you since you are jewish will probably only insult the person at the Consulate (don't forget they are a team it doesn't matter if it is the woman that gave the interview or someone else, if you attack one of them you might as well attack all of them), you want them to want to help you so watch your tone and words in your e-mail.

About getting a lawyer that is maybe a good ideal since they have contact information that we as normal US Citizens do not have to get ahold of the Consulates, NVC and etc. But even with that they might not be much help, plus you should've had them calling the day after the interview not a week later. So if you are going to get anything done you need everyone calling and working on your behafe on Monday and no later. Spend this weekend writing good professional e-mails to the Consulate, Senators, Congressman and find a lawyer if you haven't found one already. In short you should've had all this set up last week the day after the interview to have the best chance of getting this reversed, but don't give up go into overdrive and get this done. In short work your ### off.

I wish you the best on your case, I truly do. The reason I wrote what I did is I don't want anyone freaking out and not seeing the truth in how the Consulate works so we can all be successful at getting our visas.

Good Luck,

P

I personally think it is unnecessary to publicly share personal details about another person's situation that they have chosen not to disclose to the forum. I understand you are trying to look out for the people with interviews coming up and I appreciate that, but everyone here should realize that they don't know all the details of another person's case. They only know what that person chooses to share.

Everything in this forum should be read keeping in mind that we are possibly being told only part of the story. For that matter, the petitioner only knows what the beneficiary has chosen to share. The interview is interpreted through the eyes of the petitioner who may or may not fully comprehend the questions he has been asked, and may not even realize that his answers have raised questions.

I don't think people should come here and intentionally or unintentionally mislead other people about their case (and I am NOT accusing Leila of this) but I think the responsibility lies on the reader to take any messages they read with a grain of salt.

Rebecca

Rember when you got scolded by your parents they said " this is gonna hurt me more than it hurts you.

really its for your own good " this is how i take your post.