Concerns and Trust

[lasso 0]

oooh boy I want to say thank you to all of you but really even though the post sounded bitter I actually wrote it for antoher member.

Right now in my life I am very happy and by the way dating several men and one of them is Palestinian but he is american. Of course none of them no of each other and none of it means more to me then just a date for dinner or conversation.

Honestly after what happen to me I don't trust any man.

But if any of you have any doubt the best thing to do is the next time you speak with your sweetheart tell him "Honey I bought a ticket to come live with you in the middle east I miss you so much and want to be with you and I found a job at an american hotel"

And see his re-action.

I want all of you to be happy but "Dont wear your heart on your sleeve" You are not dealing with the same mentality as if you where dating a man who already had his papers.

Honestly I lived over there and in thier defence I would lye cheat steal to get out of that hell place if I had to also.

Yes the middle east is beautiful when you visit for less then 3 months. When your there for a long period it is a hard life one that they are all trying to escape.

We should be so lucky just to have been born in this country and maybe I was used because I gave to much and was an easy target.

Maybe if you just be yourself and be strong and don't be controlled you will end up better then me.

All of this has been years of brain washing by both men and now it will take time to really understand who I am and what I want. In the mean time I am dating and yes I date all races I still do love my foriegn men just ones that have thier papers.

[♥JP♥ 5]

I would just like to add one thing. Its not easy for women to come out and share their experiances about a failed marriage, being burned, or being used. However it seems than when they do come out, people just dismiss them as being bitter women.

The OP didnt single anyone out and say that your husband was using you. She shared her experiance and observations about the culture. If you feel it doesnt apply to you then that is great, but it might apply to someone and it could save someone a lot of time, money, and heartache.

I think women like this should be applauded for coming out and speaking of their expeiances no matter how painful they are.

JP

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I haven't read this entire thread, but I will. As someone who grew up as an Arab among Arab cultural norms, I've said the same thing here about Arabs preferring to marry among their own culture and nationality and gotten beaten up for saying it. Is there a sea change here and now, people are more receptive to the message?

[BarbSami 32]

I feel your pain, But please don't waste a year like I did. This is my story,

I also was with a man from jordan I am muslim smart attractive funny. I loved him and thought he loved me. I waited for him for almost five years during that time I sent him money took care of his family when he came ect...

You name it I did it. I look Arab I speak Arabic and I cook Arabic I took on the role of being the perfect Arab wife.

I been around the culture my whole life trust me when I tell you this I did nothing wrong.

I went to see him every year his family loved me everyone treated me with respect and kindness inviting me for dinner going shopping with me ect...

We I thought where in love. He alwasy told me how much he loved me and I was his everything.

Behind my back last year I found out he got engaged to another women in his country!

When I first heard of it I thought the person telling me was jealouse of me because she is not happy wiht his brother so I thought our relationship made her jealouse.

When I comfronted him I was laughing and told him what she said.

And that is when I found out it was true! I could not beleive it! And even after I found out he said "I was his love blah blah blah"

I hung out even after that thinking maybe his family put presure on him ect...

Well he just had his wedding and I did nothing but feel misserable for almost a year thinking it was not true because he continued to lead me on making me think that he was not going to go through with it.

I am telling you those men from Jordan will lye cheat steal anything to come to the USA. And the sooner you realize it the faster you will be able to move on!

I have a hard head and I could not believe someone would use me like that. I also thought I am very attractive smart have a little money know the culture religion why would he not want me??????

But it is true they marry thier own kind no matter what and if they do stay with an american women it is because papers then the kids come and they are very loyal to thier children.

I was married before to a Palestinian that is how I know so much about the culture we had 3 children together whom I raised muslim and when I ended up divorced he was on a plane ASAP going back home to marry a women from over there.

Let me put you in the head of a middle eastern man

They are raised in an enviroment (remember I lived over seas for two years) watching the fatther go off to work all day long and left alone with the mother (Arab women have a hate for american women just like some black women do for white women because they feel like we take thier men) So the kids are at home being raised by women who dislike american women then they are raised seeing the mother never leave the home not even to shop. In thier country women do not leave the home unless she is older or escorted by a man. And most men do not want to escort their women out because they don't want to have a problem with other men.

The men are raised that women are below them and women are here to serve thier needs.

Now this will raise eyebrows but I am telling you this is a true statement (remember I am muslim) But the islam they practice in the middle east is to thier likeing.

They think of american women as slutty and they will date have fun with us but when it comes to staying married long term(unless you get knocked up when he is trying to get his papers) they want to marry thier own kind.

When they marry thier own kind they know the women will take care of them cook clean ect...and never complain.

They then have affairs because they look at the wife like the virgin marry who is the mother of thier kids so it is kind of hard for them to be sexually wild with the mother of thier kids.

If you look at the culture unless your blind you will see most Arab men secretly have affairs but will never leave thier wife.

Because they know 100% thier wife will never leave them it is thier culture and if she does her family will not accept it she will be an outcast.

The Arab women will cook clean take care of his mother bare his kids carry heavy thing and never complain!

She is bread like that. I know I live thier thier husband is thier life they are not a real women unless they are married.

And the women know if they do not do what they should he will take another wife.

They dont like american women because we dont listen.

If you want to go back to him start kissing his butt and he will take you back.

In the Holy Quran GOD promissing them virgins in heaven that is the ultimate heavan so what do you think then they want on earth???

Trust me when I tell you this I am telling you because I have a very very big heart and I hurt and had pain for almost a year living in a fantasy and it took me a real long time to get it in my head that this man used me.

The last words I had with him I was crying and told him I heard he was getting married this summer and he said yes his whole family was there for the party, laughing eating having a good time and then he said could he call me later?

I said no I want you to be happy good bye.

And that was that after five years of my life of doing nothing but giving and doing.

It made me sick to know that his family whom I did everything for and acted to me like I was so special behind my back was finding him a wife.

It made me sick to know that all his sisters and mother where dancing at his wedding and everyone laughing having a good time why I was hurt and crying.

This culture is monster have no feeling for man kind. I am not the only one that this has happen too. I just thought I was specail because I was muslim and I looked Arab but I am telling you the family will pretend to like you just to get what they can.

Thier whole purpose in life is to come to america! I lived in the middle east I was all over the middle east they are very very poor culture imagine you live in poverty where you are living 10 people in a house no one making decent money you will lye cheat steal to get what you want.

I beleive his plan was to marry her come here live with me and us work here make good money so he can support his family there.

I know a few Arab men(remember I been around the culture 20 years) that are married in thier country and living here in america with an american women that has no clue!

When the american women goes back home they send the wife to her mothers house!

The Arab women does not care because she is convinced her husband loves her and using the american girl.

Arab women are bread from little on to STAND BY YOUR MAN! They will never question him they are just happy to have someone take care of them.

I have arab friends now that are men and they tell me even though they are married when they go back home the mother is begging them to marry another one.

The women themself beleive they are not worthy they are convinced that they are nothing without the husband and they will do anything in thier power to keep him happy including letting him marry another women.

When I was over sea's my sister inlaw had 3 kids she went home one day and found a young girl in her home her husband married and told her to bad deal with it.

She left but ended up living in a very poor situation with her father and mother who where old so she ended up going back and accepting it.

When this happen all the women in the family where extra nice to thier husbands for fear it was going to happen to them.

PLEASE REMEMBER don't try to think like them they think different we marry for love they marry to reproduce!

Thier love thier life is not a women it is thier kids!

And they marry a women for her to bare kids and take and raise them to be good muslims.

If you go back to the middle east you will see the men have tons of male friends women are not thier friends we are just to bare kids.

They hang out all day with other males go home at night eat have another baby and then go back to work and to hang out with the guys.

Once a week they will stay home relax and family members will come to visit.

Think about it when ever you see an arab man here in this country he is with his friends and if he is with a women she is walking with the kids and he is rushing her through a shopping mall ect...

You will never seee them holding hands walking hugging. It is a rare thing and if you do you better beleive they are young or just got married.

I feel bad for you but I wrote all this in hopes that I help you because I was stupid and I really thought that he loved me.

I cannot beleive that another human being could use you but they can they are not like us american people have compasion for life.

God will protect you and will give justice you will be ok.

GOD BLESS YOU!

this was not intended to offend you I am trying to help I wish someone would have told me instead everyone did not want to hurt me so they kept telling me he loves me but is confused. In the end that only hurt more because I lost allot of good oppurtunities waiting for him.

GOD BLESS AND IF YOU NEED TO TALK SHOOT ME AN EMAIL

Iv never posted before but i just had to reply to this post. as an african american woman there is no hatred in my heart for someone of another race dating or marrying an african american male"TO EACH HIS OWN' Who actually cares who marry whom except a narrow minded human being. Berriri

[Donna A 4]

berriri,

i agree with u about who cares who marries who but in my nieces case who is white...she has got her butt kicked by black girls for dating black men. maybe its just a teen thing but who knows.

anyway...if that were the case black girls are free to go after our white guys..no problem in my book.

[palilover 1]

Silly question perhaps but it is not the silliest I have asked so I'll ask it.

If this original post was meant for a certain member, why not just pm that member?

[BarbSami 32]

Silly question perhaps but it is not the silliest I have asked so I'll ask it.

If this original post was meant for a certain member, why not just pm that member?

you are sooo right palilover

[BarbSami 32]

berriri,

i agree with u about who cares who marries who but in my nieces case who is white...she has got her butt kicked by black girls for dating black men. maybe its just a teen thing but who knows.

anyway...if that were the case black girls are free to go after our white guys..no problem in my book.

im sorry to hear this donnaal they are young and life has many lessons to teach them

[BarbSami 32]

I feel your pain, But please don't waste a year like I did. This is my story,

I also was with a man from jordan I am muslim smart attractive funny. I loved him and thought he loved me. I waited for him for almost five years during that time I sent him money took care of his family when he came ect...

You name it I did it. I look Arab I speak Arabic and I cook Arabic I took on the role of being the perfect Arab wife.

I been around the culture my whole life trust me when I tell you this I did nothing wrong.

I went to see him every year his family loved me everyone treated me with respect and kindness inviting me for dinner going shopping with me ect...

We I thought where in love. He alwasy told me how much he loved me and I was his everything.

Behind my back last year I found out he got engaged to another women in his country!

When I first heard of it I thought the person telling me was jealouse of me because she is not happy wiht his brother so I thought our relationship made her jealouse.

When I comfronted him I was laughing and told him what she said.

And that is when I found out it was true! I could not beleive it! And even after I found out he said "I was his love blah blah blah"

I hung out even after that thinking maybe his family put presure on him ect...

Well he just had his wedding and I did nothing but feel misserable for almost a year thinking it was not true because he continued to lead me on making me think that he was not going to go through with it.

I am telling you those men from Jordan will lye cheat steal anything to come to the USA. And the sooner you realize it the faster you will be able to move on!

I have a hard head and I could not believe someone would use me like that. I also thought I am very attractive smart have a little money know the culture religion why would he not want me??????

But it is true they marry thier own kind no matter what and if they do stay with an american women it is because papers then the kids come and they are very loyal to thier children.

I was married before to a Palestinian that is how I know so much about the culture we had 3 children together whom I raised muslim and when I ended up divorced he was on a plane ASAP going back home to marry a women from over there.

Let me put you in the head of a middle eastern man

They are raised in an enviroment (remember I lived over seas for two years) watching the fatther go off to work all day long and left alone with the mother (Arab women have a hate for american women just like some black women do for white women because they feel like we take thier men) So the kids are at home being raised by women who dislike american women then they are raised seeing the mother never leave the home not even to shop. In thier country women do not leave the home unless she is older or escorted by a man. And most men do not want to escort their women out because they don't want to have a problem with other men.

The men are raised that women are below them and women are here to serve thier needs.

Now this will raise eyebrows but I am telling you this is a true statement (remember I am muslim) But the islam they practice in the middle east is to thier likeing.

They think of american women as slutty and they will date have fun with us but when it comes to staying married long term(unless you get knocked up when he is trying to get his papers) they want to marry thier own kind.

When they marry thier own kind they know the women will take care of them cook clean ect...and never complain.

They then have affairs because they look at the wife like the virgin marry who is the mother of thier kids so it is kind of hard for them to be sexually wild with the mother of thier kids.

If you look at the culture unless your blind you will see most Arab men secretly have affairs but will never leave thier wife.

Because they know 100% thier wife will never leave them it is thier culture and if she does her family will not accept it she will be an outcast.

The Arab women will cook clean take care of his mother bare his kids carry heavy thing and never complain!

She is bread like that. I know I live thier thier husband is thier life they are not a real women unless they are married.

And the women know if they do not do what they should he will take another wife.

They dont like american women because we dont listen.

If you want to go back to him start kissing his butt and he will take you back.

In the Holy Quran GOD promissing them virgins in heaven that is the ultimate heavan so what do you think then they want on earth???

Trust me when I tell you this I am telling you because I have a very very big heart and I hurt and had pain for almost a year living in a fantasy and it took me a real long time to get it in my head that this man used me.

The last words I had with him I was crying and told him I heard he was getting married this summer and he said yes his whole family was there for the party, laughing eating having a good time and then he said could he call me later?

I said no I want you to be happy good bye.

And that was that after five years of my life of doing nothing but giving and doing.

It made me sick to know that his family whom I did everything for and acted to me like I was so special behind my back was finding him a wife.

It made me sick to know that all his sisters and mother where dancing at his wedding and everyone laughing having a good time why I was hurt and crying.

This culture is monster have no feeling for man kind. I am not the only one that this has happen too. I just thought I was specail because I was muslim and I looked Arab but I am telling you the family will pretend to like you just to get what they can.

Thier whole purpose in life is to come to america! I lived in the middle east I was all over the middle east they are very very poor culture imagine you live in poverty where you are living 10 people in a house no one making decent money you will lye cheat steal to get what you want.

I beleive his plan was to marry her come here live with me and us work here make good money so he can support his family there.

I know a few Arab men(remember I been around the culture 20 years) that are married in thier country and living here in america with an american women that has no clue!

When the american women goes back home they send the wife to her mothers house!

The Arab women does not care because she is convinced her husband loves her and using the american girl.

Arab women are bread from little on to STAND BY YOUR MAN! They will never question him they are just happy to have someone take care of them.

I have arab friends now that are men and they tell me even though they are married when they go back home the mother is begging them to marry another one.

The women themself beleive they are not worthy they are convinced that they are nothing without the husband and they will do anything in thier power to keep him happy including letting him marry another women.

When I was over sea's my sister inlaw had 3 kids she went home one day and found a young girl in her home her husband married and told her to bad deal with it.

She left but ended up living in a very poor situation with her father and mother who where old so she ended up going back and accepting it.

When this happen all the women in the family where extra nice to thier husbands for fear it was going to happen to them.

PLEASE REMEMBER don't try to think like them they think different we marry for love they marry to reproduce!

Thier love thier life is not a women it is thier kids!

And they marry a women for her to bare kids and take and raise them to be good muslims.

If you go back to the middle east you will see the men have tons of male friends women are not thier friends we are just to bare kids.

They hang out all day with other males go home at night eat have another baby and then go back to work and to hang out with the guys.

Once a week they will stay home relax and family members will come to visit.

Think about it when ever you see an arab man here in this country he is with his friends and if he is with a women she is walking with the kids and he is rushing her through a shopping mall ect...

You will never seee them holding hands walking hugging. It is a rare thing and if you do you better beleive they are young or just got married.

I feel bad for you but I wrote all this in hopes that I help you because I was stupid and I really thought that he loved me.

I cannot beleive that another human being could use you but they can they are not like us american people have compasion for life.

God will protect you and will give justice you will be ok.

GOD BLESS YOU!

this was not intended to offend you I am trying to help I wish someone would have told me instead everyone did not want to hurt me so they kept telling me he loves me but is confused. In the end that only hurt more because I lost allot of good oppurtunities waiting for him.

GOD BLESS AND IF YOU NEED TO TALK SHOOT ME AN EMAIL

I am truly sorry for your pain. Stop blaming yourself regardless of what you may know about culture or custom, one can never know what's in another mind or heart. So be easy on yourself and heal.

Berriri

[SimoFati 0]

I think its rarely as simple as he used me for a green card. I think more often than not "he" saw the marriage as an opportunity for a future and took a chance. Love is not, nor should it be the sole basis for marriage. I mean you are building a life together, bringing two families together (if he is MENA then it IS two families not two people involved)..love will ony take you so far.

I know there are those that marry with the intention of it being short term, simply for the purpose fo the green card. But the majority of marriages that fall apart have other problems, other incompatabilities that were difficult to overcome. The cultural differences, the expectations of lifestyle, marriage roles etc do get in the way and can be even more difficult to overcome when there other other personality incompatibilities.

And these generalizations about Arab culture. Sure you can find examples of this in teh Arab world, that's why they are generalizations. BUT some of what is said is simply western interpretation of MENA- meaning, what you think you see is not what the reality is. I find the whole post rather offensive. Why do we insist on evaluating others based on our own experiences????? You can not paint MENA with one broad brush stroke, its much more complex.

Well said

I agree

[Sofiyya 1,687]

And these generalizations about Arab culture. Sure you can find examples of this in teh Arab world, that's why they are generalizations. BUT some of what is said is simply western interpretation of MENA- meaning, what you think you see is not what the reality is. I find the whole post rather offensive. Why do we insist on evaluating others based on our own experiences????? You can not paint MENA with one broad brush stroke, its much more complex.

No interpretation needed to understand that there is a strong preference in the Arab world for marrying within and carrying forward tradition. There is also a great deal of resentment for what they see as other values and norms being foisted upon them. Marriage to western women may allow men to excape the limits of their lives at home, but it also allows contradictory feelings in many about what they have to give up of the lives they knew, and what they are exposed to in the "wanton west" to fester. I have my feet planted firmly in both worlds, but I often have the same feelings when I learn of men marrying women who either encourage or indulge unIslamic behavior in Muslim men. There's way too much ignorance about each other's perspectives and motivations among interfaith, intercultural couples in a lot of these relationships to know what to expect from them. Love is not enough.

This is not a western view, it is simply fact. It's amazing how Americans find it so difficult to believe that their way of living, thinking, feeling, and seeing the world is so very different that most of the rest of the world, and that they just don't see themselves the way others see them.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[mybackpages 0]

And these generalizations about Arab culture. Sure you can find examples of this in teh Arab world, that's why they are generalizations. BUT some of what is said is simply western interpretation of MENA- meaning, what you think you see is not what the reality is. I find the whole post rather offensive. Why do we insist on evaluating others based on our own experiences????? You can not paint MENA with one broad brush stroke, its much more complex.

No interpretation needed to understand that there is a strong preference in the Arab world for marrying within and carrying forward tradition. There is also a great deal of resentment for what they see as other values and norms being foisted upon them. Marriage to western women may allow men to excape the limits of their lives at home, but it also allows contradictory feelings in many about what they have to give up of the lives they knew, and what they are exposed to in the "wanton west" to fester. I have my feet planted firmly in both worlds, but I often have the same feelings when I learn of men marrying women who either encourage or indulge unIslamic behavior in Muslim men. There's way too much ignorance about each other's perspectives and motivations among interfaith, intercultural couples in a lot of these relationships to know what to expect from them. Love is not enough.

This is not a western view, it is simply fact. It's amazing how Americans find it so difficult to believe that their way of living, thinking, feeling, and seeing the world is so very different that most of the rest of the world, and that they just don't see themselves the way others see them.

I have no problem unerstanding that the Arab world is so very different from the rest of the world. I also stated that the things the OP wrote were not UNTRUE. I do have a problem with blanket genralization about the culture and I do have a problem with interpretation of a culture based on one's own limited experience.

It's not that teh actions are so false, but the ideas and values behind these actions that is being sorely misunderstood.

[AInfante-Saraireh 0]

But if any of you have any doubt the best thing to do is the next time you speak with your sweetheart tell him "Honey I bought a ticket to come live with you in the middle east I miss you so much and want to be with you and I found a job at an american hotel"

Now this is a good point! I did ask my husband once while he was waiting for his visa, that I wanted to come there and live coz i missed him that much. He had already moved in with his sister, as it was getting very close to his interview, and it was crowded there, that I did know. But he said, he couldn't support me there and what kind of life would we have there together. I said I would look for a job, but he didn't agree. He did however say to come, but we wouldn't be all that happy. When he arrived here in America, one day he said to me, what if i don't get the green card and I have to return home, would you come with me? At that time, I said no. He said then he didn't want to go back either. Then recently, I was looking at pics of Jordan and missed it terribly. He came home from work and I said honey, I miss Jordan. I want to go live there. He said to me, really, do you really want to live there? I said, yes. Then he said, then let's go. I know he misses his family too. I said I don't want to go for anoher six years coz it woudl be a hard adjustment for jess, our daughter. He left it alone. So in the beginning, I thought he didn't want me there, he just wanted the visa to come to America. And over there, he was confused, not knowing what was a better life for the two of us. I think they think of us as, we have to get use to a life there, wearing the hijab, coz I would have to wear one out if I lived there. And many other cultural reasons.

[lasso 0]

LOL LOL LOL

Family is wonderfull but ARAB or American or any culture live farther and enjoy the visits. It is a rare thing to have one big happy family.

I also wanted to open another can of worms?

This is not intended as a racial thing but would you not think that most cultures do better if they marry thier own kind?

We are talking same music food family religion ect...

Everyone hates to say those words because we live here in a big melting pot but if you do marry your own kind it is less likely that you will divorce.

Look at the world as a whole in other countries the divorce rate is low. Maybe Arabs no something we don't

This whole topic was sensitive and by no means am I saying these men don't love thier wife. I beleive in my heart mine loved me but he thought with his head not his heart. And he married someone who would bare his children not stop who would never leave him and would love him no matter what.

It is almost a 100% garuanty that if you marry your own kind it will work. They take a very big risk marrying one of us, and alot of flak from family.

I mean you go to america to make money and your family is expecting once you make it to the top you come back build a huge home and marry an arab girl.

Back in the middle east a wedding is thier whole life and foundation. that is what they live for!

We as americans look forward to bigger better house,car and vacation.

All they have is a wedding no matter what the income one day they will celabrate a wedding.

For the mother her sons wedding is more important then her wedding day.

These women are kept in the house for the most part but on a wedding day they can dance have fun go shopping for thier dress. I mean this is a big event the biggest in a man or womens life.

Like I said before it took me a very long time to realize other cultures do not think like us we are different.

We will marry a women who has been touched or even has kids and be proud to call her our wife.

We marry who we want who the hell cares what our family says and if our mother dont like our wife to bad our kids and wife come first.

In middle east they will not marry a women who has been touched or has kids and the mother has a big influence on who the son marries and you better beleive his mother comes first, It is islam.

I am not bashing any of it some of it I personally think is good but not when it happen to me.

I love it that my own son babies me.

Please understand when you marry someone from another culture that is why it is called culture.

I lived for many years hearing "back home back home my family I miss them back home we eat sleep ect like this"

I also have many friends who are middles eastern and I respect them and thier beliefs they are good family men.

[HannahP 119]

Huh.

As an outsider who married a Canadian ("Oh, he's just Canadian. That's practically American anyway!") but trolls through the other forums from time to time...it's been my observation that there are plenty of jerks in all countries. Surprise!

No, but really. Why argue the *Arabic* mindset when MENA is just another high-fraud consulate? How many American men get left by their Russian or Chinese wives? Or American women by their Nigerian husbands? (Or for that matter -- US citizens by their Canadian spouses?) You just don't hear about the failed relationships much on here - shame, I guess - or you hear about them second-hand in the "I know someone who..." game.

When I first joined visajourney, what shocked *me* was the incredibly short duration between meeting/engagement/marriage. Of all nationalities. I couldn't fathom meeting someone online, chatting for a few months, visiting them in person for a few days, and then getting engaged/married! My own experience was so different and so normal compared to the experiences of most couples on here.

So you read about the failures. Or you speculate about some of the crazier stories on here, right? You troll through the high-fraud forums (MENA only being one of them!) and notice a lot of similarities. I'll admit that, as an outsider with a fiance from an industrialized country and two years of living together already behind us, I've probably passed too many judgements on relationships that I simply couldn't fathom. Why would anyone think something like that would work?

But the longer I stay on here, the harder it becomes to untangle the fraudulant from the usual problems that any international relationship is going to face. So there's a lot of generalization (which may or may not be true) about the *Arabic* culture and *Arabic* men; but why single that out as the negative factor? Culture may play a part of it, but you guys also have to deal with a high-fraud consulate (although I liked the "going to church to find a Christian partner" analogy & think it very relevant), the usual hardships of an international relationship, and the profound culture shock that your spouse is probably experiencing. How do you untangle what is what?