Concerns and Trust

[MelindaandTarek 0]

I am sorry for all those that are in pain and appreciate the sharing. For me I am not comfortable generalizing these concepts to all MENA men...in fact I dont feel comfortable generalizing any culture/religion..Sure there are bound to be some commonalities in a particular culture/region, however there are also many many differences in a person's environment (town, school, work, community) and family life that is certainly going to shape the person...maybe its just me for the social worker in me...but this is how I feel in my opinion.....

[mybackpages 0]

i'm convinced a lot of these men marry american women thinking they were okay with the cultural differences, thinking they could handle having a western wife. .. and once they get here and live here a while, they realize its not something they can do. the guilt factor could set it. the culture differences. i'm sure some come here with good intentions of it working out. just like i'm sure some of the women think they can handle an arab man and realize its not for them once they've been married. to each their own!

Right on target IMO. And it is not just MENA but anytime two people meet with very different cultures and knowing each other very little. Some couples get through the road bumps, many many others don't

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

The men make good male friends and fathers THAT IS IT!

you left out good for alimony too.

[lasso 0]

Please understand this post was meant in a way to understand thier culture it is different from ours.

Americans........marry because we love someone and can we spend the rest of our life with them

Arab middle east......have arranged marriage or marry thier cousin they know they are muslim and no they think the same way love will come later. They marry for children and someone to take care of them.

I did live in a very big city with educated people. All of you who are reading this and have spent time around the arab culture true or not true who takes care of the man?

I am not saying arab men are bad I am explaining a culture and please dont argue unless you lived there and no for a matter of fact yourself.

I was just trying to explain a culture that is it.

[SqdnGuns 21]

I feel your pain, But please don't waste a year like I did. This is my story,

I also was with a man from jordan I am muslim smart attractive funny. I loved him and thought he loved me. I waited for him for almost five years during that time I sent him money took care of his family when he came ect...

You name it I did it. I look Arab I speak Arabic and I cook Arabic I took on the role of being the perfect Arab wife.

I been around the culture my whole life trust me when I tell you this I did nothing wrong.

I went to see him every year his family loved me everyone treated me with respect and kindness inviting me for dinner going shopping with me ect...

We I thought where in love. He alwasy told me how much he loved me and I was his everything.

Behind my back last year I found out he got engaged to another women in his country!

When I first heard of it I thought the person telling me was jealouse of me because she is not happy wiht his brother so I thought our relationship made her jealouse.

When I comfronted him I was laughing and told him what she said.

And that is when I found out it was true! I could not beleive it! And even after I found out he said "I was his love blah blah blah"

I hung out even after that thinking maybe his family put presure on him ect...

Well he just had his wedding and I did nothing but feel misserable for almost a year thinking it was not true because he continued to lead me on making me think that he was not going to go through with it.

I am telling you those men from Jordan will lye cheat steal anything to come to the USA. And the sooner you realize it the faster you will be able to move on!

I have a hard head and I could not believe someone would use me like that. I also thought I am very attractive smart have a little money know the culture religion why would he not want me??????

But it is true they marry thier own kind no matter what and if they do stay with an american women it is because papers then the kids come and they are very loyal to thier children.

I was married before to a Palestinian that is how I know so much about the culture we had 3 children together whom I raised muslim and when I ended up divorced he was on a plane ASAP going back home to marry a women from over there.

Let me put you in the head of a middle eastern man

They are raised in an enviroment (remember I lived over seas for two years) watching the fatther go off to work all day long and left alone with the mother (Arab women have a hate for american women just like some black women do for white women because they feel like we take thier men) So the kids are at home being raised by women who dislike american women then they are raised seeing the mother never leave the home not even to shop. In thier country women do not leave the home unless she is older or escorted by a man. And most men do not want to escort their women out because they don't want to have a problem with other men.

The men are raised that women are below them and women are here to serve thier needs.

Now this will raise eyebrows but I am telling you this is a true statement (remember I am muslim) But the islam they practice in the middle east is to thier likeing.

They think of american women as slutty and they will date have fun with us but when it comes to staying married long term(unless you get knocked up when he is trying to get his papers) they want to marry thier own kind.

When they marry thier own kind they know the women will take care of them cook clean ect...and never complain.

They then have affairs because they look at the wife like the virgin marry who is the mother of thier kids so it is kind of hard for them to be sexually wild with the mother of thier kids.

If you look at the culture unless your blind you will see most Arab men secretly have affairs but will never leave thier wife.

Because they know 100% thier wife will never leave them it is thier culture and if she does her family will not accept it she will be an outcast.

The Arab women will cook clean take care of his mother bare his kids carry heavy thing and never complain!

She is bread like that. I know I live thier thier husband is thier life they are not a real women unless they are married.

And the women know if they do not do what they should he will take another wife.

They dont like american women because we dont listen.

If you want to go back to him start kissing his butt and he will take you back.

In the Holy Quran GOD promissing them virgins in heaven that is the ultimate heavan so what do you think then they want on earth???

Trust me when I tell you this I am telling you because I have a very very big heart and I hurt and had pain for almost a year living in a fantasy and it took me a real long time to get it in my head that this man used me.

The last words I had with him I was crying and told him I heard he was getting married this summer and he said yes his whole family was there for the party, laughing eating having a good time and then he said could he call me later?

I said no I want you to be happy good bye.

And that was that after five years of my life of doing nothing but giving and doing.

It made me sick to know that his family whom I did everything for and acted to me like I was so special behind my back was finding him a wife.

It made me sick to know that all his sisters and mother where dancing at his wedding and everyone laughing having a good time why I was hurt and crying.

This culture is monster have no feeling for man kind. I am not the only one that this has happen too. I just thought I was specail because I was muslim and I looked Arab but I am telling you the family will pretend to like you just to get what they can.

Thier whole purpose in life is to come to america! I lived in the middle east I was all over the middle east they are very very poor culture imagine you live in poverty where you are living 10 people in a house no one making decent money you will lye cheat steal to get what you want.

I beleive his plan was to marry her come here live with me and us work here make good money so he can support his family there.

I know a few Arab men(remember I been around the culture 20 years) that are married in thier country and living here in america with an american women that has no clue!

When the american women goes back home they send the wife to her mothers house!

The Arab women does not care because she is convinced her husband loves her and using the american girl.

Arab women are bread from little on to STAND BY YOUR MAN! They will never question him they are just happy to have someone take care of them.

I have arab friends now that are men and they tell me even though they are married when they go back home the mother is begging them to marry another one.

The women themself beleive they are not worthy they are convinced that they are nothing without the husband and they will do anything in thier power to keep him happy including letting him marry another women.

When I was over sea's my sister inlaw had 3 kids she went home one day and found a young girl in her home her husband married and told her to bad deal with it.

She left but ended up living in a very poor situation with her father and mother who where old so she ended up going back and accepting it.

When this happen all the women in the family where extra nice to thier husbands for fear it was going to happen to them.

PLEASE REMEMBER don't try to think like them they think different we marry for love they marry to reproduce!

Thier love thier life is not a women it is thier kids!

And they marry a women for her to bare kids and take and raise them to be good muslims.

If you go back to the middle east you will see the men have tons of male friends women are not thier friends we are just to bare kids.

They hang out all day with other males go home at night eat have another baby and then go back to work and to hang out with the guys.

Once a week they will stay home relax and family members will come to visit.

Think about it when ever you see an arab man here in this country he is with his friends and if he is with a women she is walking with the kids and he is rushing her through a shopping mall ect...

You will never seee them holding hands walking hugging. It is a rare thing and if you do you better beleive they are young or just got married.

I feel bad for you but I wrote all this in hopes that I help you because I was stupid and I really thought that he loved me.

I cannot beleive that another human being could use you but they can they are not like us american people have compasion for life.

God will protect you and will give justice you will be ok.

GOD BLESS YOU!

this was not intended to offend you I am trying to help I wish someone would have told me instead everyone did not want to hurt me so they kept telling me he loves me but is confused. In the end that only hurt more because I lost allot of good oppurtunities waiting for him.

GOD BLESS AND IF YOU NEED TO TALK SHOOT ME AN EMAIL

NOT A FLAME - It's no wonder why the middle east is the way that it is..........

tikbj - Good Luck and don't be hard on yourself.

[lasso 0]

above post yes funny you say that about the middle east because it is one of the few area's in the world the surpress women and if you look at how much turmoil and loss of goverment they have it will make you wonder?

Women are an important part of society that is what makes this country and the west so powerfull because they have impowered women.

In the USA (GOD BLESS AMERICA) A women can be a single mother and still succeed but if you lived in the middle east (this is toward the one post that says they are educated and I was living in a village) why then in the middle east if your a single mother you have to be taken care of by your family member or if you do want to remarry you leave your children with thier father because no other man will financially support those kids.

Also why in the middle east if your not a virgin you cannot marry unless you go have this oporation called "hymic restore" go ahead look it up on the internet you will be surprise how many sites there are that do this for middle eastern women because if it is found out she has had sex before marriege she will be killed or never marry.

I am not saying freedom is having sex but I am pointing this out to show all of you who are here reading this that the midde east is different then the USA.

And I am not saying it in a bad way.

We American's must remember we have a different culture and we should not inforce our views but at the same time we also must remember when marrying a Jordinian man your not marrying an american man that thinks the same way you do and was brought up the same way you where.

They are different read about the culture and if your willing to live like that then you will be married for along time but if you expect them to be like you and think like you they are not.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

just another fyi,

My jordan man was very americanized he smoke drank He was very open minded.

I thought he was open minded to be honest I could not even imagine him being arab he seemed very western but when it came to marriage he wanted an arab women.

by the way I dont drink or smoke but he did and tried to hide it from me when I found out I told him I still loved him and would not judge him.

He just never did it in front of me out of respect.

That goes to show you they want to act open minded but they want a good little arab girl.

i don't think smoking or drinking has anything to do with it. i would love to see statistics but i bet an upwards of 90% of MENA men smoke, and at least 50% or more drink!

wanting a "good arab girl" is one thing, acting like a "good arab boy" themselves is another. lol

i'm convinced a lot of these men marry american women thinking they were okay with the cultural differences, thinking they could handle having a western wife. .. and once they get here and live here a while, they realize its not something they can do. the guilt factor could set it. the culture differences. i'm sure some come here with good intentions of it working out. just like i'm sure some of the women think they can handle an arab man and realize its not for them once they've been married. to each their own!

i tend to think this is what happens more often than the idea of only getting the card. Big expectations from both, some can adjust some cant. Maybe some of these men now come here and are truly overwhelmed with this life so much so fast. If at home they were limited due to family, responsibilities, religion, money etc now they get here free, fun and games, partying lifestyles all new and it just pulls them in. Its not a MENA idea to get married and then find its not what you wanted, its a life thing, happens everyday to good people. Neither are to blame, its just happens. Im sure there are a fair share on the other hand that can be proven to only want the card but i think in a short time they will show their true colors and i believe they need to be sent back soon as possible and not allowed to return. But cant really just assume if a marriage fails it was all because of the card to begin with,(which is what everyone starts hollering) everyone maybe trying some just dont work

[AngelK96 0]

You name it I did it. I look Arab I speak Arabic and I cook Arabic I took on the role of being the perfect Arab wife.

I been around the culture my whole life trust me when I tell you this I did nothing wrong.

Must of been tiring trying to be something you weren't, and could never be. Too bad you just couldn't be yourself.

Angel

[ya falaha! 0]

Hey JP, glad to see you posting again.

I agree, what the OP is saying holds a lot of truths. It's hard to swallow but there is so much truth to it. Sure she's angry, wouldn't y'all be if that happened to you? I'm not Arab but I've lived within the culture for 13 yrs now. I've seen and heard of nearly everything she's addressed. My ex had the same mindset the OP mentioned...men are for companionship, women are for sex/cooking/cleaning/child rearing. My ex came from a very closed society but became "open minded" when he got to the US. He would go back and forth from being religious to non religious. In the end we divorced and he married someone from his country (something he should have done from the get go). We're both better off. Do you know what this man said to me when we got divorced? "I should have never had children with you, Americans can't be trusted." This is from a naturalized citizen who has lived in this country for 16 yrs. He still has the "Americans can't be trusted" mindset. Again, not saying all MENA men are like this, but so many are. So many can't adjust to being married to an American due to such cultural differences. I tried my best and put my all into his culture. I cooked his food, listened to his music, taught my children to be proud of their heritage (his heritage, not mine), followed his rules, learned his religion but it was never enough. I was still the American that couldn't be trusted.

I don't think the OP is out of line OR a troll for what they posted. You would have to be an Arab to know that most of what they posted is 100% true, its sad but true. I'm sorry if that is hurtful to some women here but her post helps just one person than she has done enough.

If you don't feel that its true, than good for you. But this does hold true for many. Many women have posted in VJ in another subforum about men that used them. It happens alot, however people always have that mentality that it will never and can't ever happen to them. The same holds true for many things in life.

The message she wrote, no matter how harsh it may seem hold a lot of truth.

[lasso 0]

Yes angel your right and thank god I now realize how really stupid it was of me to live most of my life trying to please a man.

Thank god I found myself. But allot of it comes from marrying the first one at the age of 16 he raised me he was 8 years older then me.

So I thought this life style was normal.

Anyway honestly I think there should be a law that if you become an american through another american and get your papers that you should then not be alloud to marry a women from your country and bring her here.

Really this goes for women and men if you obtain your paper through marriage and then become divorce you should not be able to bring another alien here.

I think we should all bad together on that one. That would stop allot of the divorces and hey if you want to have the freedom to marry a women from your country then go back to your country dont bring them over here.

Because I believe in the back of someones mind maybe they dont try as hard to make it work because they know that they an replace you and have the family ready to remarry you.

Funny thing I remember many years ago someone flat out throwing all this in my face and me being very upset and protective of the culture and now years later I realized it all to be true.

I guess you can say I am a hard headed girl takes me a few times to learn my lesson..

Good things about the culture is they work hard they love thier children and they are good providers and for the most part they dont drink or do drugs. I guess that is what attracted me to the culture in the first place.

My son is Arab he is 15 and he has lots of friends and all his little Arab friends seem to control thier mothers.

And these boys get away with murder and thier sisters are stuck in the house.

The fathers are at work all the time and the women are shopping.

HE HE

I was talking to my friend the other day about thier shopping and spending habbits he is from Palestine he said "they want to make sure thier husband dont have enough money to remarry" HE HE

So if I was married to one of them I guess instead of saving I would be spending!

HA HA

[Donna A 4]

your origional post brings back alot of memories of when my best friend was married to a lebonese. everything u have said she has told me over the years. she also included the stories where arab woman are demanding and if they ask their husbands for something they had better have it for her and how they dont treat american woman the same as they would an arab girl.

my husband's ex was very demanding and if she didnt do what he wanted she caused problems. she would call his family and hers and make up stories and all that.

anyway. im sorry u were used. it really is ashame.

my friend wasnt used since in fact he never did divorse her even way after the green card and citizenship. they were together over 20 years. it was her who could not live that live anymore. they didnt even live in the united states but in nigeria for most of the marriege. she did what u did...changed everything about herself...became muslim learned arabic and the cooking and everything. the last step to finalize her change was to get a lebonese passport but some how that fell thru. really she becames arab in all ways except that. finally she came to her sences and divorsed him and took the kids and moved back to the united states and started over.

yes he even took a second wife. she was nigerian but it was a secret wife. just between the two of them so they could have sex. my husband doesnt agree with the secret marriege thing but then again my husband is sunni and her ex was shite. maybe there is a difference in the ways but i dont know for sure.

she couldnt be more happier now.

[~Jackie~ 30]

*sigh* Last Sunday morning, we woke, had a nice breakfast, he cut the grass, I cleaned in the house. In the afternoon, we met Jess, her husband and Lexy at the mall, drank coffee and visited. Came home and a casual discussion escalated into the ending of our marriage. I didn't see it coming.

11pm ...do you know where your husband is? uh....no. But I'm gonna sit here on the couch til he comes home.

Jackie

[JJWashington 0]

I don't know you, but my prayers are with you

Yes angel your right and thank god I now realize how really stupid it was of me to live most of my life trying to please a man.

Thank god I found myself. But allot of it comes from marrying the first one at the age of 16 he raised me he was 8 years older then me.

So I thought this life style was normal.

Anyway honestly I think there should be a law that if you become an american through another american and get your papers that you should then not be alloud to marry a women from your country and bring her here.

Really this goes for women and men if you obtain your paper through marriage and then become divorce you should not be able to bring another alien here.

I think we should all bad together on that one. That would stop allot of the divorces and hey if you want to have the freedom to marry a women from your country then go back to your country dont bring them over here.

Because I believe in the back of someones mind maybe they dont try as hard to make it work because they know that they an replace you and have the family ready to remarry you.

Funny thing I remember many years ago someone flat out throwing all this in my face and me being very upset and protective of the culture and now years later I realized it all to be true.

I guess you can say I am a hard headed girl takes me a few times to learn my lesson..

Good things about the culture is they work hard they love thier children and they are good providers and for the most part they dont drink or do drugs. I guess that is what attracted me to the culture in the first place.

My son is Arab he is 15 and he has lots of friends and all his little Arab friends seem to control thier mothers.

And these boys get away with murder and thier sisters are stuck in the house.

The fathers are at work all the time and the women are shopping.

HE HE

I was talking to my friend the other day about thier shopping and spending habbits he is from Palestine he said "they want to make sure thier husband dont have enough money to remarry" HE HE

So if I was married to one of them I guess instead of saving I would be spending!

HA HA

My prayers are with you

[peezey 0]

i don't think smoking or drinking has anything to do with it. i would love to see statistics but i bet an upwards of 90% of MENA men smoke, and at least 50% or more drink!

"Dr. Chaouki, who took part in the World Health Organization in the negotiations that led to the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control which will enter into force on February 27, told MAP 34% of Moroccan men and 1% of Moroccan women aged over 20 are smokers."

[In Gods Hands 0]

'mybackpages' date='Jul 19 2007, 06:26 PM' post='1059460'---

And I just have to add...think about what these fears that what if my husband is using me for a green card can do to the marriage? You may never speak these words, but these ides can manifest itself in other ways without us being aware.

If a woman fears the green card issue without sound reason to have doubt, that creates a lack of trust and what can be more damaging to a relationship. Bi-national bi-cultural relatinships have alot of misunderstandings by default.

I believe there are always clues that a marriage may not work from the start and often we are blinded to whose because we are in the middle of it all- hard to see clearly or hard to see through the eyes of a third party. If there are signals, then don;t go forward. If there are no real signs, then this "fear of being used for a green card" is saying soemthing more about your own insecurities .

Couples have to work at marriage. My husbands likes to say without problems, you can have no life. But sometimes we have to work on our own baggage as much as we have to work at compromising and making the marriage work.

'tikbj' date='Jul 19 2007, 07:10 PM' post='1059572'---------

I WANT TO TELL YOU HOW YOU KNOW?

That little voice inside tells you something is not right????????????

Even though he always re assured me that he loved me that little voice kept telling me I was being used!

LISTEN TO THE LITTLE VOICE!

Think about the times when a man really loved you, did you ever doubt he loved you or was using you?

Only when he really was and when you found out you thought you should have listened?

I am telling you 100% if it walks like a duck it is a duck!

Interesting posts... as i read this.. a couple things (of the many) came to mind .. Anyone want to list some of the signs to be aware of.... I mean.. not everyone can hear that little voice clearly (No.. I can hear mine loud and clear.. then I test it.. just to be sure.. * I like what "my backpages" said re: fears/insecurities).

Also.. I wish we could get some input from some MENA men out there. Any MENA beneficiaries online??? I'm tempted to send this post (original starting post from "tikbj") to my husband. I'd like to hear what he had to say about it. I think she brought up many good points and truths that pertain to some. Many things that have concerned a few of us who are engaged/married to MENA men... Im sure we've all had a few run-ins, major discussions, concerns regarding the difference in culture..some stories we've read that blew our minds..etc.. I know for me..I really had to clarify my husbands view/personal belief re: interpretation of correcting the wife also being able to have more than one wife, and being able to say "I divorce you" (a few times) would really mean you're divorced. This was cleared up prior to our marriage..and also was added in our vows. (BTW.. his belief and views were the same as mine, but just for the record and covering my bases we added this) No extra wives..no abuse/hitting... no easy outs by simple repeated words. Anyway..this is getting lengthy... sorry..

Just a side note: I agree with another post- there are all kinds of people outside of USA that are getting into relationships with Americans for own selfish gain. Its not just men from foreign countries, but women too.

Edited July 20, 2007 by AhmadGwen4evr