Confused...

[dcl766 0]

i_751.pdfSo I am filling out the I-751 for Marina and it say to list all children in Part 5 but only if they are filing for removal of conditions with the parent according to the instructions.

In Carina's case she is not eligible to remove conditions until next year and will file separately.

So the question is do I list her as a child on the application?

These applications are so vague sometimes. I mean I know the instructions say to list her only if filing, but then on the actual application it says IN BIG LETTERS TO LIST ALL OF YOUR CHILDREN with no disclaimer about only if they are filing too.

Attached application is an older version but it says the same thing.

Thanks, Dave

[raymaga 25]

When I applied for my Removal of Conditions, I listed all my children (including my K-2 daughter who we will file her own Removal of Conditions for later this year) in Part 5. I even listed my other two children who did not immigrate to the U.S. and still live in Canada. I ticked that they do not live with me and ticked that my daughter does live with me and gave her A#.

[lucyrich 20]

It says to list ALL your children. That means ALL.

Read the instructions carefully. They say to be sure and include children even if they meet certain criteria. They do NOT say that those are the only children you should include. The instructions to not tell you to omit any children. The form says ALL children.

[dcl766 0]

Thanks for the feedback. I am just wondering how they determine if we are or are not applying for removal of conditions for these children that we have listed. I mean, I do not want them to think that we are trying to manipulate the system for an early removal of Carina's conditions.

"In Part 5 of this petition, please make sure to include any conditional resident children applying with you in order to have their conditional basis removed, or they may file separately. Please remember to provide their A-number."

Just seems like the application itself is clear (ALL CHILDREN) but the instructions themselves are more vague and lean towards listing children only whom you are including in your application to have their conditions removed as well.

Or am I still missing something in the instructions?

[Moldovandish 0]

Hey Dave! Just wanted to wish you good luck! Keep us posted on how the processing goes. We will be applying in a couple of months.

[Yodrak 7]

Dave,

No, that's not what it says. You need to read forms and their instructions carefully.

Yodrak

So I am filling out the I-751 for Marina and it say to list all children in Part 5 but only if they are filing for removal of conditions with the parent according to the instructions.

.....

Edited July 13, 2007 by Yodrak

[dcl766 0]

Dave,

No, that's not what it says. You need to read forms and their instructions carefully.

Yodrak

So I am filling out the I-751 for Marina and it say to list all children in Part 5 but only if they are filing for removal of conditions with the parent according to the instructions.

.....

Right, and isn't this what it says??:

"In Part 5 of this petition, please make sure to include any conditional resident children applying with you in order to have their conditional basis removed, or they may file separately. Please remember to provide their A-number."

[Yodrak 7]

Dave,

I don't see the words "only if", or an equivalent, in there anywhere. You made that part up yourself.

Yodrak

Dave,

No, that's not what it says. You need to read forms and their instructions carefully.

Yodrak

So I am filling out the I-751 for Marina and it say to list all children in Part 5 but only if they are filing for removal of conditions with the parent according to the instructions.

.....

Right, and isn't this what it says??:

"In Part 5 of this petition, please make sure to include any conditional resident children applying with you in order to have their conditional basis removed, or they may file separately. Please remember to provide their A-number."

Edited July 13, 2007 by Yodrak

[dcl766 0]

Dave,

I don't see the words "only if", or an equivalent, in there anywhere. You made that part up yourself.

Yodrak

Dave,

No, that's not what it says. You need to read forms and their instructions carefully.

Yodrak

So I am filling out the I-751 for Marina and it say to list all children in Part 5 but only if they are filing for removal of conditions with the parent according to the instructions.

.....

Right, and isn't this what it says??:

"In Part 5 of this petition, please make sure to include any conditional resident children applying with you in order to have their conditional basis removed, or they may file separately. Please remember to provide their A-number."

Agreed...but back to my original question. How do they determine if we are trying to manipulate the system? I will go ahead and list her but I will indicate her expiration date too so hopefully they will not think we are asking for her removal of conditions too. She is our only child so that makes listing her stand out even more.

They could make another box that says "check here if applying for removal under this application" and make things a whole lot easier.

Or they could have just approved her as a K-2 when her mother was approved and all of this would be a moot point. Damn name check BS strikes again.

Thanks, Dave

[luzviminda 0]

Ok, I just wanted to update this. I searched last night about how to answer Part 5 for my mom's I-751 and we had a disagreement about it.

So I called USCIS today.

The agent said that we only needed to list the children whose natural birth mother is my mom and exclude all other children, meaning none of my stepdad's children should be listed. When I asked him how to designate in the application that we will not be removing the conditions on MY GC (because it expires at a later date), he said that I should NOT be listed then.

This seems a bit doubtful to me despite the fact that he is a USCIS agent.

Any ideas?

[lucyrich 20]

I'd list ALL children and explain the situation in the cover letter.

If you omit a child in the list where it says to list "ALL" children, then that makes it look like you're trying to hide the existence of the child or something. The WORST thing to do is to give them a reason to think you're lying, witholding things, or hiding something. Make it clear what you're doing and why.

So, personally, I would say something like "Note for part 5: Mary's daughter, Jane, became a conditional permanent resident on mm/dd/yyyy. She is listed in part 5 because the heading for part says to list ALL children. However, I am not sure if is eligible to have her conditions removed at this time, because she has held conditional permanent resident status for such a short time".

By doing it this way, nobody can accuse you of trying to mislead, or of being unclear. You've drawn the situation to their attention, and presumeably, they'll follow their procedures and keep the daughter's conditional status as-is. I don't know the laws and procedures related to conditional status of children too well, but perhaps if their procedures allow it, the conditional status will be removed. (It seems logical that once a marriage has been judged to be bona fide for the purpose of the parent's conditions, the bona fide nature of the same marriage can't be in dispute regarding the child's conditions. But USCIS procedures aren't always logical, and I don't know how they handle this situation.)

[dcl766 0]

Ok, I just wanted to update this. I searched last night about how to answer Part 5 for my mom's I-751 and we had a disagreement about it.

So I called USCIS today.

The agent said that we only needed to list the children whose natural birth mother is my mom and exclude all other children, meaning none of my stepdad's children should be listed. When I asked him how to designate in the application that we will not be removing the conditions on MY GC (because it expires at a later date), he said that I should NOT be listed then.

This seems a bit doubtful to me despite the fact that he is a USCIS agent.

Any ideas?

I have no ideas but just wanted to thank you for calling USCIS about this. Once again this is another example of why they need to do a better job of adding a little detail to their petition applications so we are not left wondering what the heck we are supposed to enter as the response.

I mean, Yodrak is right that it says to enter ALL CHILDREN and that I made up the "only if" part, but at the same time you are getting conflicting information when you call the help line, and all of us are left to just hope that our response is ok.

In our case I put Carina's name, full address, that she lives with us, and when her GC expires so hopefully they will get the point that we are NOT including her in the petition. Our cover page and evidence also does not include anything about Carina.

We'll see.

Maybe they can use the money from the fee increases to create a clearer application?

[luzviminda 0]

Ok, I just wanted to update this. I searched last night about how to answer Part 5 for my mom's I-751 and we had a disagreement about it.

So I called USCIS today.

The agent said that we only needed to list the children whose natural birth mother is my mom and exclude all other children, meaning none of my stepdad's children should be listed. When I asked him how to designate in the application that we will not be removing the conditions on MY GC (because it expires at a later date), he said that I should NOT be listed then.

This seems a bit doubtful to me despite the fact that he is a USCIS agent.

Any ideas?

I have no ideas but just wanted to thank you for calling USCIS about this. Once again this is another example of why they need to do a better job of adding a little detail to their petition applications so we are not left wondering what the heck we are supposed to enter as the response.

I mean, Yodrak is right that it says to enter ALL CHILDREN and that I made up the "only if" part, but at the same time you are getting conflicting information when you call the help line, and all of us are left to just hope that our response is ok.

In our case I put Carina's name, full address, that she lives with us, and when her GC expires so hopefully they will get the point that we are NOT including her in the petition. Our cover page and evidence also does not include anything about Carina.

We'll see.

Maybe they can use the money from the fee increases to create a clearer application?

I've been helping my parents fix all the paperwork and we're hoping to have this sent out this weekend to beat the fee increase.

I just attached another sheet of paper listing ALL of the children including me but I put that I am a conditional PR with an expiration date in april. Hopefully this will work. I also put at the bottom of the sheet that I will be filing my I-751 at a later date.

dcl, I'm hoping they'll use some of the money for that. All this confusion is driving me nuts!

[aussie girl 1]

Ok, I just wanted to update this. I searched last night about how to answer Part 5 for my mom's I-751 and we had a disagreement about it.

So I called USCIS today.

The agent said that we only needed to list the children whose natural birth mother is my mom and exclude all other children, meaning none of my stepdad's children should be listed. When I asked him how to designate in the application that we will not be removing the conditions on MY GC (because it expires at a later date), he said that I should NOT be listed then.

This seems a bit doubtful to me despite the fact that he is a USCIS agent.

Any ideas?

I have no ideas but just wanted to thank you for calling USCIS about this. Once again this is another example of why they need to do a better job of adding a little detail to their petition applications so we are not left wondering what the heck we are supposed to enter as the response.

I mean, Yodrak is right that it says to enter ALL CHILDREN and that I made up the "only if" part, but at the same time you are getting conflicting information when you call the help line, and all of us are left to just hope that our response is ok.

In our case I put Carina's name, full address, that she lives with us, and when her GC expires so hopefully they will get the point that we are NOT including her in the petition. Our cover page and evidence also does not include anything about Carina.

We'll see.

Maybe they can use the money from the fee increases to create a clearer application?

I've been helping my parents fix all the paperwork and we're hoping to have this sent out this weekend to beat the fee increase.

I just attached another sheet of paper listing ALL of the children including me but I put that I am a conditional PR with an expiration date in april. Hopefully this will work. I also put at the bottom of the sheet that I will be filing my I-751 at a later date.

dcl, I'm hoping they'll use some of the money for that. All this confusion is driving me nuts!

Hi

fyi - We filed our Joint I-751 application last May 2. In the application I included my son who's conditional GC will expire 104 days after mine. I still included him in the application and we received the blue NOA letter 3 weeks after stating he should file separately because of 8CFR Sec 216.4 which states 'Child cannot be included in a joint petition filed by the parent and parent's petitioning spouse due to the child not having acquired conditional resident status concurrently with the parent. A child shall be deemed to have acquired conditional residence status concurrently with the parent if the child's residence was acquired on the same date or within 90 days thereafter of the parent. Each child who cannot be included in a joint petition filed by the parent's petitioning spouse due to the child's not having acquired conditional resident status concurrently with the parent, death of the parent, or other reasons may file a separate Petition to Remove the Conditions on Residence Form I-751 with the proper fee of $275.'

THe above were the exact words in the Blue colored Notice of Action, they also returned the biometrics check. It took 45 days before I got my NOA with the 1 year extention. On July 16, we sent and filed my son's I-751 with exactly the same copies of all the papers we sent earlier plus some updated bank accounts. The check for $275 was cashed in yesterday. And we are waiting for the NOA. We think it was great that we got the blue letter and my son used that copy of the Blue NOA as the evidence of why my son had to file separately. I can't believe it only took less than 10 business days for his check to be cleared in our bank.

Aussie Girl