I-134 question

[bruc 0]

If your home is paid for and worth several hundred thousand dollars...how would you use it for the AOS? any particular form needed for it?

You can list it on the I-134 in the section detailing your "assets." However, if you have a house worth several hundred thousand dollars (paid for) I would assume you wouldn't need to list assets as your income should be WAY WAY above the poverty level.

As for another form needed? How about a prenup?

Thanks for your reply slim, it was just a conversation some of us were having about showing support other than income.

None of us have any problems showing support with income, and we're all at the age where most of us own our homes now.

We live in a resort area where small homes cost several hundred thousand the bigger ones going for over a million.

It's just where we live and the price to pay for living here. Some have inherited their homes some have worked and paid for them.

None of us are doing prenups so maybe we need to discuss that also

It's never even crossed my weak mind.

I need to get my timelines posted.

I'll be flying back to Russia in October for a visit with my fiance, anyone know how the new terminal in Moscow is coming along?

bruc

[slim 1,514]

Does anyone know if the you have to have the Interview invitation letter??? She has to be in Moscow in 4 weeks so I don't think she is going to get another packet in mail. I'm sending her the forms. I requested Embassy to send another packet to her.

I believe they get some kind of "appointment slip" inside that packet. If she doesn't have this, she may not get entry to the embassy. Not to scare you, because if she's there on the right day, she'll be "on the list" and should have no problems.

None of us are doing prenups so maybe we need to discuss that also

It's never even crossed my weak mind.

It may not have crossed your weak mind, but I guarantee it's crossed hers! Marrying into a situation where there's the potential to sign the contract, say "I do" and regardless of outcome have several hundred thousand dollars isn't a bad deal for anyone. Well, anyone except you.

Everyone hopes you never "need" a prenup, but that's the whole purpose of having one. So you don't "need" it.

[bruc 0]

It may not have crossed your weak mind, but I guarantee it's crossed hers! Marrying into a situation where there's the potential to sign the contract, say "I do" and regardless of outcome have several hundred thousand dollars isn't a bad deal for anyone. Well, anyone except you.

Everyone hopes you never "need" a prenup, but that's the whole purpose of having one. So you don't "need" it.

That's a good thought concerning the prenup. It's really never crossed my mind because I stay so busy working and doing like most in here, wondering, waiting and trying to carry on a committed relationship 6000 miles apart. I will put more thought into a prenup and I'll pass it on to the ones of us that were kicked back discussing things.

I called a couple of my friends that are married to and have been married to Russian girls for over 5 years. I asked them if they did a prenup and both said no and they never thought about it at the time either. One said his brother was doing a prenup and his fiance had no problem with it.

Neither of them had never heard of VJ nor were they members of any of the forums.

They both seem to have excellent marriages with no problems but both made the comment that everyday is a new day in a marriage so who knows what the next day may bring. They both have kids with their wives so they're hung out to dry anyway if their marriages fail.

I will discuss it my fiance on my next trip over and wing it from there.

I wonder...how many in here have done or will do a prenup?

Thanks for your input slim...

bruc

[Turboguy 6]

We are doing a pre-nup. We both want it.

A pre-nup is not necessarly something designed to make sure if the marrige doesn't work you are protected and she gets the shaft. A prenup that gives her a plane ticket to Russia and the first months rent on an apartment is likely not going to stand up in court. Nor is one done under duress such as sign the prenup or we won't get married and I will pack you back home. She also needs to be fully aware of her options and she has to have her own lawyer. It really should be a lawyer fluent in Russian or second best a competent translater even if her Engish is not too bad.

In our case I have a business and both my kids work in the business. My biggest concern is protecting the business even though I have a lot of faith in my fiancee and her intentions. In her case she left a good job and will be leaving a nice life as well as her family and she feels safer knowing that if things don't work out that she will have enough reserves to get a start on her life or to get her life back together if she would choose to go back. My intention is to do one that protects my business while it is very fair to her.

Naturally if you are 24 years old and have no assets it is not an important thing. If you have a business or a fair amount of assets then it is a good idea. I know one guy who married a Ukrainian gal, stayed married for about a year and the divorce about ruined him financially. A lot of it was not that she got that much but the legal fees of the divorce probably totaled well over 50 grand including $ 10,000 arguing about who owned a $ 7.00 snow shovel.

[Satellite 1]

A general advice on pre-nups.

Get in contact with a lawyer from your jurisdiction. Each state has it's own policies and laws on how prenups should be done to be valid in your home state. Likewise, certain things placed in prenups are not necessarily enforced and a good lawyer will help you draw up one that is beneficial to you.

Likewise, in some situations a prenup might not be necessary depending again on your financial situation and your home state.

For example in California, a Community Property state, assets acquired prior to marriage, by devise, inheritance, will, or gift remain your separate property and cannot be equitably distributed as in common law states.

Because a prenup in the context of marrying a foreigner who really only has 90 days to decide whether to marry you in the first place, does not speak fluent English, and is most likely on their first trip to the US can be a great obstacle in making a conscionable and enforceable legal document in the eyes of a liberal court / judge.

Lastly, don't underestimate the advice your fiancee might receive from her friends and family about not signing any document resembling a prenup due to preconceived fear of being left destitute in the street or even placed into "slavery" due to common myths and stereotypes. For some the prenup might break the relationship regardless of how much explaining you do.

[slim 1,514]

Naturally if you are 24 years old and have no assets it is not an important thing.

It's also unnecessary if you were 27 and in debt at the time of your marriage. So, no. We didn't do one. What, was she going to take half my debt if we got (or get) divorced? No way.

In my case, it was unnecessary. In some of your cases, especially you guys that are a little older and have homes and/or businesses, it's amazing to me that you DON'T have a prenup. I know you love your fiancee, but how well do you really know her? How well can you really know anyone (especially a woman) before shacking up together and knowing she gets 50% (or more!) regardless of the outcome? I don't see how you could get married without one. Realistically, you've talked to this girl for a year or two, seen her a few times, whatever. But, you all know over 60% of all marriages end in divorce. Since that's reality, and another reality is she's going to get some, if not all, of your money (for nothing more than signing a paper) if/when you divorce, why would you even consider getting married without one.

And if you think you're more F'd when/if there are kids involved, think again. Kids can be included by number, sex, age, etc. There can also be a breakdown for length of marriage and her "acquisition" of a new sponsor. I.E. when she gets married again... you stop paying! You can also have mitigating factors involved such as infidelity, time away from home, etc. She cheats, she gets nothing. She flies back to Russia and stays for six months, she gets nothing. She shacks up with her boyfriend every weekend, she gets nothing. She stays with you two years and three months (as in, the day the green card arrives in the mail box).... she gets nothing. Etc. etc., etc......

Surprisingly enough, having a good prenup could actually save your marriage. It's a whole lot easier to "work it out" than to crunch the numbers and come up with "well, if I move in with my boyfriend right now, I only get $189/month from my husband. I think I'll go ahead and stay married for a few more years."

[Satellite 1]

she's going to get some, if not all, of your money (for nothing more than signing a paper) if/when you divorce, why would you even consider getting married without one.

Well it's more than that. The hot Russian lady, who can be 20 or 30 years younger than the old American guy had to sleep with him, live with him, wash and cook for him, etc... I think you get the picture. So, if she gets half in that kind of situation, she probably deserves it.

She cheats, she gets nothing. She flies back to Russia and stays for six months, she gets nothing. She shacks up with her boyfriend every weekend, she gets nothing. She stays with you two years and three months (as in, the day the green card arrives in the mail box).... she gets nothing. Etc. etc., etc......

Once again, don't forget that terms like how many times you will sleep with me or walk the dog will not be enforced and thus stricken from a prenup. And if that is what was violated, well you are just out of luck. And more importantly, if any terms in a prenup actually encourage divorce, that prenup will be void for a violation of public policy. For example, “upon divorce you get my house.” Guess what the bride did, she got a divorce in 60 days, hoping to cash in on the house. Court ruled the prenup was not enforceable.

[CityCat 0]

Well it's more than that. The hot Russian lady, who can be 20 or 30 years younger than the old American guy had to sleep with him, live with him, wash and cook for him, etc... I think you get the picture. So, if she gets half in that kind of situation, she probably deserves it.

Thank you! Nice to hear such things from a future lawyer!

[CityCat 0]

A general advice on pre-nups.

Get in contact with a lawyer from your jurisdiction. Each state has it's own policies and laws on how prenups should be done to be valid in your home state. Likewise, certain things placed in prenups are not necessarily enforced and a good lawyer will help you draw up one that is beneficial to you.

Likewise, in some situations a prenup might not be necessary depending again on your financial situation and your home state.

For example in California, a Community Property state, assets acquired prior to marriage, by devise, inheritance, will, or gift remain your separate property and cannot be equitably distributed as in common law states.

Because a prenup in the context of marrying a foreigner who really only has 90 days to decide whether to marry you in the first place, does not speak fluent English, and is most likely on their first trip to the US can be a great obstacle in making a conscionable and enforceable legal document in the eyes of a liberal court / judge.

Lastly, don't underestimate the advice your fiancee might receive from her friends and family about not signing any document resembling a prenup due to preconceived fear of being left destitute in the street or even placed into "slavery" due to common myths and stereotypes. For some the prenup might break the relationship regardless of how much explaining you do.

Sat, do you know anything about post-nap? I think I want one, I didn't look into it though. Is it worth it in your opinion?

[Turboguy 6]

A Post Nup is every bit as good as a pre-nup and some assets such as retirement funds can only be covered by a post nup rather than a pre nup or so I have heard. A post nup would also take the pressure arguement out of the equation (by that I would mean the spouse trying to claim she signed under duress with the threat of sign or I won't marry you and you have to go back.

[slim 1,514]

Well it's more than that. The hot Russian lady, who can be 20 or 30 years younger than the old American guy had to sleep with him, live with him, wash and cook for him, etc... I think you get the picture. So, if she gets half in that kind of situation, she probably deserves it.

Thank you! Nice to hear such things from a future lawyer!

Are you guys implying that a hot Russian lady that sleeps with, lives with, washes and cooks for an old American guy for a year or two should get paid, in some cases, $100,000 or more?

Come on, that's #######! Even the best prostitutes in Moscow only get $1000/hour.

Edited: OK. I just saw my flawed logic. A year or two @ even $100/hour for things like those above should get the lady a pretty handsome sum. Take into account the "Eww. Gross!" factor, and $100,000 seems like a pretty good deal. Either way though, no matter how you dress it up, a taxi cab is still a taxi cab, even if the meter is off.

Edited August 28, 2007 by slim

[Satellite 1]

Sat, do you know anything about post-nap? I think I want one, I didn't look into it though. Is it worth it in your opinion?

We haven't really discussed them much in our law school education. Most of the focus was on the prenup in both family law and community property.

The postnup is mentioned in a footnote as a possible avenue and not much more than that.

For prenup basics go to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenup

There isn't such a simple article for Postnuptial Agreements, but here are a few basics:

1. Because they are signed after marriage, and the couple is in a fiduciary relationship with each other, and any transactions between them are viewed with caution.

2. They are new to the law and how they are interpreted or enforced is not known and hard to predict.

3. Common sense would say prenups are better.

Okay found some basics:

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_jerse...tial_agreements

For practical reasons, Turboguy mentioned a few, and I want to add that if you don't have any agreement and one of you is offered a partnership agreement in a business, it can make your partners very uneasy knowing your spouse is a "silent" partner who will as have an interest in the partnership.

My overall opinion on them, they are better than nothing if you want minimize attorneys fees during divorce.

[Turboguy 6]

There is a very excellent book on the subject by the name of "Write your own Pre Nup" I would not suggest writing your own, nor does the author in reality but if you read it you will know more about Pre Nups and Post Nups than the lawyer who does write yours. The book is excellent. It is available on Amazon.

[Satellite 1]

if you read it you will know more about Pre Nups and Post Nups than the lawyer who does write yours.

Don't forget that if the attorney screws up, you have a cause of action for Malpractice, in which case his or her insurance carrier will pay you for what your ex spouse wronngfully got. Edited August 28, 2007 by Satellite

[CityCat 0]

Sat, do you know anything about post-nap? I think I want one, I didn't look into it though. Is it worth it in your opinion?

We haven't really discussed them much in our law school education. Most of the focus was on the prenup in both family law and community property.

The postnup is mentioned in a footnote as a possible avenue and not much more than that.

For prenup basics go to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenup

There isn't such a simple article for Postnuptial Agreements, but here are a few basics:

1. Because they are signed after marriage, and the couple is in a fiduciary relationship with each other, and any transactions between them are viewed with caution.

2. They are new to the law and how they are interpreted or enforced is not known and hard to predict.

3. Common sense would say prenups are better.

Okay found some basics:

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_jerse...tial_agreements

For practical reasons, Turboguy mentioned a few, and I want to add that if you don't have any agreement and one of you is offered a partnership agreement in a business, it can make your partners very uneasy knowing your spouse is a "silent" partner who will as have an interest in the partnership.

My overall opinion on them, they are better than nothing if you want minimize attorneys fees during divorce.

Amazing, Sat! Thank you so much! As usual you are the best!!!

It's not the point of the divorce in my situation, but we are already married so too little too late for a pre-nup. I just don't want to lose what already belongs to me and a part that's mine by law in case of emergency of some kind. I owe you one for the info...