Moving to Russia

[Satellite 1]

Here are the instructions if you are interested:

"A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,

2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and

3. sign an oath of renunciation

See the link below for more details.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

[apgk 0]

Here are the instructions if you are interested:

"A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,

2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and

3. sign an oath of renunciation

See the link below for more details.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

Well I actually meant to ask other way around.

Renouncing foreign citizenship after acquiring US citizenship. But I guess this would be

specific to the laws of the country of which the citizenship is getting renounced. Is there anything

in US laws to this effect?

[Satellite 1]

Well I actually meant to ask other way around.

Sure, not a problem. Pursuant to the instructions at the Russian Consulate in San Francisco the instructions are listed below with my short summary translation:

"ВЫХОД ИЗ ГРАЖДАНСТВА РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ

В соответствии с Федеральным законом «О гражданстве Российской Федерации», вступившим в силу 1 июля 2002 года, граждане Российской Федерации, проживающие на территории иностранного государства, могут оформить выход из гражданства Российской Федерации через дипломатическое представительство или консульское учреждение Российской Федерации. Для этого представляются следующие документы:

[According to the laws of Russia you can renounce your citizenship at consulates abroad if you meet the following requirements]

1. Заявление в двух экземплярах (бланк заявления можно получить в Генконсульстве). Заполнению в заявлении подлежат все графы. Заявление составляется на русском языке. Бланк заявления заполняется от руки или с использованием технических средств (пишущих машинок, компьютеров). При заполнении бланка заявления не допускается использование сокращений и аббревиатур, а также внесение исправлений. Ответы на содержащиеся в бланке заявления вопросы должны быть исчерпывающими. Текст заявления, выполненный от руки, должен быть разборчивым;

[statement written by you declaring your intent to renounce Russian citizenship].

2. Документ, удостоверяющий российское гражданство заявителя (действительный российский загранпаспорт);

[Proof of Russian citizenship, i.e. Russian passport]

3. Три фотографии паспортного размера (3х4 см);

[Three photographs].

4. Документ, дающий право на проживание в США (грин-карта, сертификат о натурализации, паспорт США и пр.), а также его копию и перевод на русский язык в печатном виде.

[Proof of ability to stay in the US, i.e. US green card or passport].

5. Документ о снятии с регистрационного учета по месту жительства в Российской Федерации (в случае отсутствия этих данных в паспорте заявителя);

[Document proving absence of registration in Russia].

6. Документ полномочного органа иностранного государства о наличии у заявителя иного гражданства или подтверждение возможности предоставления заявителю иного гражданства в случае его выхода из гражданства Российской Федерации;

[Proof of being affilaiated with another state (e.g. they don't want to leave you a stateless person].

7. Документ налогового органа Российской Федерации об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов.

Для получения вышеназванного документа физическим лицом, желающим выйти из гражданства Российской Федерации, в налоговый орган вместе с обращением представляются документы, подтверждающие последнее место жительства данного физического лица на территории Российской Федерации (РСФСР) по месту нахождения соответствующего налогового органа.

Такими документами могут являться паспорт или документ, его заменяющий; в случае изменения фамилии (имени, отчества) – документ, подтверждающий в соответствии с законодательством Российской Федерации изменение фамилии (имени, отчества).

Налоговые органы в десятидневный срок рассматривают представленные заявителем документы и принимают решение о выдаче справки. Справки выдаются на бланке налогового органа и содержат следующие обязательные реквизиты:

дата и номер справки,

фамилия, имя, отчество должностного лица и наименование налогового органа, выдавшего справку.

Справка об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов подписывается руководителем (его заместителем) налогового органа и заверяется гербовой печатью налогового органа.

При выявлении факта наличия задолженности по уплате налогов, либо непредставления заявителем документов, необходимых для выдачи справки об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов, налоговый орган письменно извещает заявителя о невозможности выдачи данной справки с указанием причины отказа.

Заявления граждан Российской Федерации, не имевших места жительства на территории Российской Федерации (РСФСР), с приложением соответствующих документов направляются в Управление международных налоговых отношений МНС России по адресу: 127381, Москва, ул. Неглинная, д. 23.

Справка об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов, выдаваемая Управлением международных налоговых отношений МНС России, подписывается уполномоченным должностным лицом МНС России и заверяется печатью Управления международных налоговых отношений МНС России;

[Document from Russia proving an absence of Russian tax debt, the rest of this concerns the process of how to obtain this document].

8. Оплата консульского сбора в сумме 550 долларов в форме «money order» (400 долларов - оформление выхода из российского гражданства, 150 долларов - выдача справки об отсутствии российского гражданства)

[Paying 550 dollars!]

9. При положительном решении вопроса о выходе заявителя из российского гражданства ему выдается справка о прекращении гражданства Российской Федерации. Заявитель также должен сдать в Генконсульство загранпаспорт гражданина Российской Федерации, внутренний паспорт гражданина Российской Федерации и вкладыш в свидетельство в свидетельство о рождении (при его наличии)..

Заявление подается заявителем лично. В случае, если заявитель не может лично подать заявление в связи с обстоятельствами, имеющими исключительный характер и подтвержденными документально, заявление и необходимые документы могут переданы для рассмотрения через другое лицо, либо направлены по почте. В этом случае подлинность подписи лица, подписавшего заявление, и соответствие копии документа, удостоверяющего личность, его подлиннику удостоверяются нотариальными записями с последующим проставлением на них Апостиля.

Все представляемые вместе с заявлением документы, выполненные не на русском языке, подлежат переводу на русский язык.

Заявление считается принятым к рассмотрению со дня подачи заявителем всех необходимых и надлежащим образом оформленных документов с личной подписью заявителя и датой.

Срок рассмотрения заявлений и принятие по ним решений осуществляется в срок до шести месяцев со дня подачи заявления и представления всех необходимых документов, оформленных надлежащим образом.

Выход из гражданства Российской Федерации не допускается, если гражданин Российской Федерации:

- имеет не выполненное перед Российской Федерацией обязательство, установленное федеральным законом;

- привлечен компетентными органами Российской Федерации в качестве обвиняемого по уголовному делу, либо в отношении него имеется вступивший в законную силу и подлежащий исполнению обвинительный приговор суда;

- не имеет иного гражданства и гарантий его приобретения.

[Concerns the statement one makes, time period, and how to make all of this official, also includes reasons why a request would be denied, e.g. criminal record, tax issues, and other such obligations owed].

http://www.consulrussia.org/citizen.htm#??...????????_???????

Is there anything in US laws to this effect?

US law is not really involved in this process unless you consider that some US documents are needed for renouncation to be accept by Russian officials.

I am not aware of our naturalizaiton oath to require renouncation of prior citizenships although the following language might lead one to conclude that it does:

"I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;"

For the rest of the oath see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_citiz...(United_States)

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/N-400.pdf

[slim 1,514]

So, if dual-citizenship is not possible, what rights would an AM have in Russia if living with his RW?

Say for instance, we were to move to Russia and buy a flat of our own, am I legally entitled to 50% of that flat, our car, our savings, etc., like she is here? Or, am I just like any other tourist/businessman? And what about my right to stay there?

[russ 1]

I can't imagine why you would want Russian citizenship. Business visa and work permit are fine for just about

anything you would want to do there.

So, if dual-citizenship is not possible, what rights would an AM have in Russia if living with his RW?

Say for instance, we were to move to Russia and buy a flat of our own, am I legally entitled to 50% of that flat, our car, our savings, etc., like she is here? Or, am I just like any other tourist/businessman? And what about my right to stay there?

[Nancy2015 2]

So, if dual-citizenship is not possible, what rights would an AM have in Russia if living with his RW?

Say for instance, we were to move to Russia and buy a flat of our own, am I legally entitled to 50% of that flat, our car, our savings, etc., like she is here? Or, am I just like any other tourist/businessman? And what about my right to stay there?

You can have Russian permanent residency - "Вид на жительÑтво". That'll give you lots of rights, I imagine. I researched the subject a couple years ago when we wanted to move there with hubster, but he changed his mind on that, so I stopped researching.

Edit: Your marriage will give you the right to 50% of the property, regardless of your citizenship status.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Jewel12

[billsafari 0]

I think if we decide to move to Russia I will go the temporary & permanant residence route. There is no way I would give up my U.S citizenship.

[slim 1,514]

Is the permanent residency similar to how the green card works here? Basically, how would I legally stay in Russia if I moved there with my wife? Would I enter on one of those "business" visas (multi-entry, one year, through a service or something) and then transition to permanent residence?

Anyone done it or know how to do it?

[CityCat 0]

Is the permanent residency similar to how the green card works here? Basically, how would I legally stay in Russia if I moved there with my wife? Would I enter on one of those "business" visas (multi-entry, one year, through a service or something) and then transition to permanent residence?

Anyone done it or know how to do it?

Why? Why on Earth would you want to?! Just give me one good reason why you would want to live in Russia? I love my country to death, I want my kids to see it, I want to be buried there but America is so much easier to live in!!!

Anyways, it does work like green card here, sort of. Basically what you do when you come there, you register first as a tourist or whatever visa you came with, then there is usually a list of papers you need to get permanent residence based on different reasons. Than you collect all necessary papers, stay in lines for at least a week (and I mean it, a week non-stop, people come every day at 4 am to keep their place in line, stay till closing and come again at 4 am next day not to lose a spot, usually takes about a week altogether and God forbid if you forgot some document, another week of lining then!) and they take all you have collected and tell you when to come to get the document itself. Another week of waiting in lines and ta-da! You have a residency!

[Nancy2015 2]

Is the permanent residency similar to how the green card works here? Basically, how would I legally stay in Russia if I moved there with my wife? Would I enter on one of those "business" visas (multi-entry, one year, through a service or something) and then transition to permanent residence?

Anyone done it or know how to do it?

Well, I have an idea, but I haven't done it. First you will get a temporary resident permit (on the basis of marriage). After one year with it you can apply for permanent residency. Permanent resident card is valid for 5 years and it's renewable. No conditions.

For a temporary resident permit all you need to do is be married to a Russian citizen. In this case, you won't be subject to immigration quotas. they will do a background check on you etc., and you will get it no problem as long as you're not a terrorist. I don't know what documents you need to provide with the application, but I'm sure all US documents will have to be translated and certified.

As far as I'm aware, you won't need a business visa, but I may just be full of it - I have no personal experience with it aside from researching this stuff for my hubby. There are lawyers who will do all the paperwork for you, but I don't know how much they can charge.

[Satellite 1]

In 2004 I asked about this option, at the time I thought this might be a "cheap" option to avoid spending $100 on an inflexible single entry 90 day visa. As it turns out, you do need to fill out a stack of documents. Run the gauntlet of medical tests (mental, drug, and general). And hardest of all get a police certificate from the US that is translated, appostiled, and certified. Only translation and copy of passport is sufficient. Get a bank account. You must enter on a private visa to start the process. Then they collect all the documents and 6 months later the "invitation" to get a temporary residence permit arrives at your local Russian address. Supposedly you are either supposed to return to Russia again on a private visa or take that thing to the consulate abroad and get your temporary permit. After that you are allowed to work and exit only after again seeing the "OVIR" or whatever they call it now and get an exit visa each time. Then after so many years you apply for the permanent permit. The exit procedure goes on until you acquire Russian citizenship.

The cost is actually less than $100 for all the documents / medical tests you need to do within Russia, but that police certificate will cost at least $100 if you count the appostile / translation / mobile notary / certification costs.

If you are seriously considering this option have a local ask about all the requirements prior to you departing the US for Russia. Once in Russia it is pretty difficult to get a personal document from the US,

Edited July 18, 2007 by Satellite

[russ 1]

Honestly, the only way any of us would ever consider any of this is in connection with an expat job. Almost a necessity, since that means making 10 times as much as you ever would in Russia. On top of that, your employer will handle all of this for you.

Look at what US expats are doing in Russia, and start planning a career change.

If you are seriously considering this option have a local ask about all the requirements prior to you departing the US for Russia. Once in Russia it is pretty difficult to get a personal document from the US,

[slim 1,514]

Honestly, the only way any of us would ever consider any of this is in connection with an expat job. Almost a necessity, since that means making 10 times as much as you ever would in Russia. On top of that, your employer will handle all of this for you.

Look at what US expats are doing in Russia, and start planning a career change.

If you are seriously considering this option have a local ask about all the requirements prior to you departing the US for Russia. Once in Russia it is pretty difficult to get a personal document from the US,

Really, I have no desire to be in a big expat job. (It would be nice, but not necessary. Owning "Slim's Pizza" would be cool too, but also not necessary.) I wish to live the simple life, work at the local shop or at the docks or something like that, kick my feet up at night and drink a nice cold beer with my wife. That's it. If that's in a small village near the coast or a big skyscraper in Moscow, doesn't really matter to me.

Sounds like it's a real PITA to get PR status. However, I would assume that like all other things in Russia, there's someone I could pay a "fee" to that would gladly take care of all the papers for me. I really don't feel like standing in line for a week!

[Satellite 1]

I wish to live the simple life, work at the local shop or at the docks or something like that, kick my feet up at night and drink a nice cold beer with my wife.

Slim are you ready to take this job for $200-$400 a month working 12 hour days and getting paid only after you beg the boss for two months?

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

Slim would do anything to get that beer at the end of the day.

Actually my wife and I spoke often if her K1 didnt get approved what we would do. I realized on the two trips I took to Irkutsk that there are no Mexican restaurants anywhere, no Taco Bell, nothin. I would open a restaurant and make tacos, burritos, enchiladas, sopas, all kinds of tasty things and the people would think what is this wonderful food, it has flavor and something they call spices. A strange man runs the place, he makes mexican food but he is american and of Polish decent. It doesnt make sense but it good. And if the restaurant didnt work out I would at least have mexican food to eat myself.

And slim if the dock job didnt work out you could come work for me, my waitresses are going to wear cute little uniforms.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Thomas-n-Elena