LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[Jenn! 918]

We didn't have any of the red flags listed above, but our red flags were a difference in education and also that I sent him money. We were both living and working in Europe, and he went back to Morocco when I came back to the U.S. so we could do the petition. I guess he could have worked during the waiting period so as to reduce any suspicion by the consulate, but we just hoped that things would go quickly and that it would be better for him to spend the time with his family (he hadn't seen them in over 6 years!). Turns out it wasn't brought up at all at the interview - his being unemployed or my sending him money. And we were really lucky to have a speedy process so that he was in Morocco for less than six months.

Must be nice not to work and get money sent to you. A vacation that last for months.

Nice try, but I think we're trying to keep this discussion civil.

[MHandMB 0]

I didn't have any of the reg flags mentioned. He's a few years older than me, neither one of us had been married before, we met in person and had a 5 year relationship and lived in the same city for 1 of those years. The only thing I can think of that might have caused a raised eyebrow is that I didn't visit Algeria prior to our marriage. Oh, and I'm Christian, and he's Muslim, so I thought that maybe that could be considered a "red flag."

I wasn't taking any chances when preparing our application, and I prepared for any questions that the CO might have re: the validity of our relationship. I included a letter detailing our relationship, with a list of the people who had seen us together. I also encluded a TON of photos throughout our 5 years together. The receipt for my engagement ring, print outs of e-mails, phone calls, etc. I also included an affidavit from my mother, who was there the day he proposed, and who knew him very well at that point. We had sent each other lots of postcards and letters over the years, so I sent all of those to him for the interview, as well as a scrapbook I had made him. I sent photos of us with all of my family members and friends who had met him over the years. Amed brought all of this with him to the interview.

In the end, it didn't really matter, as the CO only looked at a couple of photos and didn't ask any questions. I know we got really lucky, but I like to think that our application was very thorough. I can't imagine what some of you are going through, or have gone through, just to get your SO here. I'm glad that the CO's address red flags, as it does help to lessen visa fraud, but I wish they would all do it in such a way as to let the petitioners respond appropriately, instead of just automatically sending the petitions back to the U.S. You can't help who you fall in love with, red flags or no red flags, so those people who do have issues should at least get the chance to address them before their petition is flat-out denied.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

Yes keep this on the straight, as far as discussions, this is probably the best way for anyone to learn as by example and good to know the true life experiences.

[phila 0]

I am definitely concerned about flags 3 and then 1. Omer's English is so/so, and my Turkish, despite weekly lessons, is definitely not 'conversational'. We met on a sailing trip in Turkey (he was the sailor) and fell head over heels. Fortunately, his brother in law (the captain) spoke English well enough to translate. When the week was over, we went on vacation for a few days together, and the dictionary was our best friend.

His English since then has improved incredibly. We have spoken every night on the phone since August, and when I visited for two weeks in December, we hardly ever used the dictionary.

I know some people will say- how do you communicate? Charades? How do you know each other deeply?

Well we have a mutual friend who translates our 'deeper' emails daily. (Over 300 e-mails thus far)

I love him so completely and he me. I am just worried about the interview, and this perceived 'red flag'.

I am spending ten weeks this summer in Turkey, but I think our interview will be the first week I arrive (rather than the last, when we both have the opportunity to improve our language skills).

Any suggestions?

[ya falaha! 0]

My husband had to quit his job a few months ago because of this process. His job is 9 hrs away from home so we figured that would be too hard for him to keep in case of run arounds (which we got). I've never sent him money, he's never asked. He doesn't ask if I have enough money to get by so why should I worry about him getting by? Maybe that sounds selfish but that's how I feel. He's a grown man who is very capable. If he can't find a job closer to home that's not my problem. He does find the occasional odd job here and there. It's not much but at least it's enough for cigarettes or whatever. It's not my responsibility to support a grown, healthy, capable man.

[peezey 0]

But when the man does not have a job, and makes NO attempt to even look for one (ie: he is online all the day) then I feel it is major red flag. I understand the ecomonically hardships of various countries, but come on --> even a shitty little job selling tea or ice creme on the corner can make you little money (and more importantly make you humble and show you are TRYING) I think a good man with serious intentions would be out there trying his best to put a little something away for the next time he sees you or to buy that fon card to call you or for when you both are together. Amount of money he makes really is not the issue...it is that fact he is trying.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about this, really. Maybe it just didn't really apply to our situation since we were already living together and had mixed finances well before his time in Morocco. I didn't see the need for him to be selling ice cream on the corner when it was not that big of a deal just to send a bit of money. I can't imagine him making me do something like that just to prove a point about work ethic.

It makes me kind of sad to think of a man who is planning his future life in America with a woman who perhaps is not all that strapped for cash selling tea on the corner. Is it just me, or does it seem a little sad? I have a hard time seeing how the need for him to get a job, any job, is much more than gender roles at work.

I suppose one must just make the distinction between someone who is temporarily unemployed and one who makes a living off of mooching....

I don't see why this is sad at all. I know of no guy that has come here and immediately gotten a wonderful job. My husband has 3 degrees from American universities and delivered pizza and worked a couple nights in a hotels for a couple months during the interview (for a new job after grad school) process. Is that sad? He certainly could have sat at home, we didn't need the money, but he wasn't about to do that. He wanted money for movies, and gas for his car, and car insurance, and I could have paid for it all, but that wasn't something he was willing to accept.

I don't think any work is sad, and frankly the thought offends me and probably many here with husbands who don't have jobs they necessarily would want to have forever.

It has nothing to do with gender roles or even work ethic necessarily, it has to do with contributing. If he doesn't need to contribute to the relationship while he's waiting on a visa, then why not contribute to his mother, sisiter, nieces, nephews? Why not save his money to contribute to immigration fees when he gets here? Contribute to buying his own computer when he gets here?

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

Edited April 3, 2007 by peezey

[*JG* 2]

I thought I'd bring the issue over here so as to separate it from the language thread, which was related to a specific issue. So, as Chiquita posted there, Ellis sees the red flags as:

1. A very brief courtship followed by a plunge into matrimony;

2. A marriage ceremony arranged only a short time after petitioner arrives in the beneficiary’s country and they meet for the first time;

3. No common language;

4. Petitioner resides with family members of the beneficiary in the US;

5. Petitioner is employed by or has a business relationship with a relative of beneficiary;

6. Petitioner submits phone records that show he uses a residential phone number that is listed in the name of another person.

7. US divorce followed very quickly by an engagement to foreign beneficiary is often a red flag for consular officers.

8. There is little or no documentary evidence of the relationship prior to the actual engagement.

9. Long gaps of time between the petitioner & beneficiary being together in person.

10. Failure to disclose previous marriages;

11. Failure to disclose previous petitions filed on behalf of other beneficiaries.

Do you have any of these red flags?

If you've already been past the interview stage, did you have any of these? Were they addressed at the interview? How did you prepare yourselves to address them? What advice would you give to others with the same red flags preparing for their interviews?

ETA: I don't think this list is comprehensive for some of the MENA consulates. What would you add?

#1....Our dating period was very short after a VERY LONG friendship. Our engagement was fairly long before we married.

#2.....We were married exactly 2 weeks after he got here. However, we had met before that, of course.

#7.....After going through an extremely long seperation period (years), I was not officially divorced until after I already engaged to Jomo. We filed a month and 1/2 later.

I wouldn't call them red flags. No one brought anything up at his Embassy interview. We never had an AOS interview.

[mybackpages 0]

I am definitely concerned about flags 3 and then 1. Omer's English is so/so, and my Turkish, despite weekly lessons, is definitely not 'conversational'. We met on a sailing trip in Turkey (he was the sailor) and fell head over heels. Fortunately, his brother in law (the captain) spoke English well enough to translate. When the week was over, we went on vacation for a few days together, and the dictionary was our best friend.

His English since then has improved incredibly. We have spoken every night on the phone since August, and when I visited for two weeks in December, we hardly ever used the dictionary.

I know some people will say- how do you communicate? Charades? How do you know each other deeply?

Well we have a mutual friend who translates our 'deeper' emails daily. (Over 300 e-mails thus far)

I love him so completely and he me. I am just worried about the interview, and this perceived 'red flag'.

I am spending ten weeks this summer in Turkey, but I think our interview will be the first week I arrive (rather than the last, when we both have the opportunity to improve our language skills).

Any suggestions?

Christine, The language barrier is not going to get you denied, but it could raise suspicion in the minds of the consulate. It's really a hit and miss eperience. Some Cos are harder to please than others. I have no experience with the Consulate in Turkey so its hard to say anything definitive. since you know going in the language could be an issue, your best best is to prepare for the interview knowing this might be raised as an issue and showing strong evidence of commuication in other areas as well as strong evidence of a legitimate relationship. I think you can off set a red flag with other strengths. It's the totality of the picture that they will hopefully take into consideration rather than focusing on one problem. BUT the burden is on you to provide this up front.

since Turkey has a packet 3 that is sent in before the interview, is there any thing you can send in within the guidelines of packet 3 materials that will help? I know when you go in for the interview you bring the photos, evidence of comunication etc. I would nto send it in with packet three, btu I was thinking more along the lines of documentation that supports any of the required info in packet 3.

Also can you attend the interview? I think in Turkey you might have the option.

Play up the strengths- meeting in person, continuous contact, 2 additonal trips before the interview. chose your evidence carefully to support all the information that the CO already has- for example how you met etc. Omer does not need to use English for the interview. Knowing English is not a requirement for the visa. Drill with him the tpes of questions that may be asked and how to best respond. Even if you are there with him for the interview, the consulate will likely want him to respond to these things.

[Jenn! 918]

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

I did not mean to offend with the "sad" comment. I think you misunderstood my point, or maybe not, I don't know. Believe me, my husband has not worked glamorous jobs since being here, so I'm not talking about that. And I don't think a woman is "sad" for allowing her husband to work even if she makes more than enough money, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I think it would be sad if the woman was *demanding* that he work at a low-paying job simply because she was afraid of the impression it might give to others if he were not working.

It's one thing for a man to want to work a not-so-glamorous job because he wants to contribute and that's what's available at the time. That is certainly admirable and should be applauded. IMO, it's quite another thing for a woman to demand that her out-of-work husband get a job doing just *anything*, even if the income is not needed, just because she will feel or she's afraid that people will think he's using her for her money. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

[mybackpages 0]

#2.....We were married exactly 2 weeks after he got here. However, we had met before that, of course.

Marrying quickly after the arrival on a K-1 visa will not be an issue AT ALL for the AOS interview. Marrying quickly is only a red flag for those who meet and marry quickly and then proceed for a spousal visa. (or it can be i should say)

[*JG* 2]

I would personally have the age, divorce and i have only made one trip there.

None of which i can change now what??

How big is the age gap?

Divorce is not an issue.

And, one trip.....to me that is a bit of a red flag. However, they only "require" that you have met once within the last 2 years. Anyone have any trouble with this one?

[*JG* 2]

Wow, mabruk all for keeping this real and informative. I think we get into trouble when we start applying these *general* principles to specific people.

Umm, I think our red flag was education difference, plus my husband was only marginally employed at the time of the interview. Neither of these things were mentioned. We had a million photos, letters, etc, but the CO was most interested in the photos. He only looked at a few of them and then approved us. I think this goes to show that they make up their minds *before* the interview (sadly).

I hope this thread helps some people to realistically look at their "red flags" and to address them.

Sharon

My husband's CO looked almost entirely at the pictures too.....Andre went in there with 3 full scrapbooks full of our escapades plus copies of monthly plane tickets. After a while, the guy was like, OK, I've seen enough.

[Henia 11]

But when the man does not have a job, and makes NO attempt to even look for one (ie: he is online all the day) then I feel it is major red flag. I understand the ecomonically hardships of various countries, but come on --> even a shitty little job selling tea or ice creme on the corner can make you little money (and more importantly make you humble and show you are TRYING) I think a good man with serious intentions would be out there trying his best to put a little something away for the next time he sees you or to buy that fon card to call you or for when you both are together. Amount of money he makes really is not the issue...it is that fact he is trying.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about this, really. Maybe it just didn't really apply to our situation since we were already living together and had mixed finances well before his time in Morocco. I didn't see the need for him to be selling ice cream on the corner when it was not that big of a deal just to send a bit of money. I can't imagine him making me do something like that just to prove a point about work ethic.

It makes me kind of sad to think of a man who is planning his future life in America with a woman who perhaps is not all that strapped for cash selling tea on the corner. Is it just me, or does it seem a little sad? I have a hard time seeing how the need for him to get a job, any job, is much more than gender roles at work.

I suppose one must just make the distinction between someone who is temporarily unemployed and one who makes a living off of mooching....

Yes, there is BIG difference btwn temp not having a job and mooching. The amount of money man makes or has really not the point. It is his EFFORT.

If you were already living together, mixed finances that is one thing. But for women who has not lived with her SO to send him an allowance...I think it abit much. Islamically speaking the man takes care of the women, not vice versa. And personally *I* must men from MENA have this deeply set in their hearts. It is an ego thing.

ANd I donnot find it sad if my husband was out selling ice cream or whatever. ANd I was in the US working too.. earning little bit more then him. Actually... my husband does work and always has... and I have too! I have child to support. If my husband did not earn enough money, then sure after I was deeply settled in our relationship I would see nothing wrong with sending money. But in my case I knew my husband 4yrs but never lived with him until Sept. Other then the normale gift I am not giving up anything.

[mybackpages 0]

Everyone makes their choices about how to go through the waiting time for a visa, but to say someone is sad (and a woman is sad for "allowing" her husband to work this sad job) who makes an effort to contribute to his relationship or family is mindblowing to me. The truth is, most Moroccans have humble jobs. Most foreigners that come here get humble jobs, at least to start. Nothing sad about that. If it were, that means no guy should get a humble job here if his wife makes more money.

I did not mean to offend with the "sad" comment. I think you misunderstood my point, or maybe not, I don't know. Believe me, my husband has not worked glamorous jobs since being here, so I'm not talking about that. And I don't think a woman is "sad" for allowing her husband to work even if she makes more than enough money, that wasn't what I was trying to say at all. I think it would be sad if the woman was *demanding* that he work at a low-paying job simply because she was afraid of the impression it might give to others if he were not working.

It's one thing for a man to want to work a not-so-glamorous job because he wants to contribute and that's what's available at the time. That is certainly admirable and should be applauded. IMO, it's quite another thing for a woman to demand that her out-of-work husband get a job doing just *anything*, even if the income is not needed, just because she will feel or she's afraid that people will think he's using her for her money. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Marriage should be about how the husband and wife best help each other. How they go about this- whether or not the husband works or what kind of job he works etc- should be a decision based on what both bring to the table and how each agree is the best to proceed for the both of them. When one demands something of their spouse it seems to me that the couple may not be on the same page with one another. Could be a receipe for disaster.

[doodlebug 3]

Don't shoot me but I think this should go in a general area in VJ since more often than not that diffuses any fights that come up AND because it really applies to visa applicants all over the world.

That being said, I totally feel the same way, Jen. I feel kind of guilty living the life of luxury while he is busting his butt to make next to nothing, now that we're married. Before we were married it wasn't really a thought in my head but the thought of my husband living like that when I'm here getting facials, going to movies, going to Disney, etc. It just seems waaay off balance to me. If I were a guy I wouldn't think twice about sending money to him to even out the score as much as one can while their other half lives in a third world country, but for some reason because I'm a woman I feel strange about it. Obviously when he's here I'll be supporting him until he gets his work authority thingie and even after that for a couple of years I know I'll certainly be making more than him, so why just because he's living apart from me should I not help him out? (I don't know the answer to that question btw)