LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR RED FLAGS

[limah 1]

I know I have read on here to practice for the interview. And we have pracitced, but I finally quit because he started sounding like he has just memorized fact after fact and was able to just spit it out at a moments notice. Had I been the one interviewing him, I would have to wonder. So in addition, if there is too much "practicing" their answers seem to just be regurgated.

IMHO the best 'practice' is to know one another very well. this cannot be faked. if one doesnt the other well enough to answer the simplest questions then the CO will likely consider the relationship fake. the only practice for this is to know each other.

chi

I dont remember having to "practice" anything with Abdel. Maybe its different for everybody. Because we are a married couple that really loves each other, he knows about my family, where I work, my parents, my mothers passing away, why my father didnt come to Morocco for the wedding, things of that nature. This isnt where the problem came for us. At least I dont think. But how can I be 100% sure?

Again, had I known what I know now, I would have simply sent in more "eye candy" with the initial application. Since they have it to look at weeks b4 the actual interview.

Limah

[Ta Ta 1]

Sarah your insensitivty here really speaks volumes. So you had a smooth time sailing through it all...well that is great and good for you...but to suggest someone has issues because of the denial ??? All she is doing is trying to help people so why discredit her like that ?

Sometimes I think you may be overcompensating with your posts from a deep sense of insecurity in your own life, frequently pointing fingers.

Tell me you would not be angry if this happened to you ? Easy to say as you are

snuggled up to your SO. You have not experienced the hell of denial so why even

saying something like that ?

For those whose petitions have been returned I hope they find help and comfort here and not accusations. I am sure all their red flags if any have been thought through.

[mybackpages 0]

Sarah your insensitivty here really speaks volumes. So you had a smooth time sailing through it all...well that is great and good for you...but to suggest someone has issues because of the denial ??? All she is doing is trying to help people so why discredit her like that ?

Sometimes I think you may be overcompensating with your posts from a deep sense of insecurity in your own life, frequently pointing fingers.

Tell me you would not be angry if this happened to you ? Easy to say as you are

snuggled up to your SO. You have not experienced the hell of denial so why even

saying something like that ?

For those whose petitions have been returned I hope they find help and comfort here and not accusations. I am sure all their red flags if any have been thought through.

Omoba,

I know from you posts here on VJ that you are a good person with a kind and loving heart. But I have to say to you, that Sarah is a deeply sensitive person. She is only asking some hard questions for people who will go through this process and need to understand the facts and come to VJ looking for answers. This dicussion is about more than one or 2 couples. It's about all of us and all the couple who will come here and read these forums in the future.

And unfortunately sometimes a couple doesn't think through red flags because they can't see beyond what they believe they see.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Sarah your insensitivty here really speaks volumes. So you had a smooth time sailing through it all...well that is great and good for you...but to suggest someone has issues because of the denial ??? All she is doing is trying to help people so why discredit her like that ?

Sometimes I think you may be overcompensating with your posts from a deep sense of insecurity in your own life, frequently pointing fingers.

Tell me you would not be angry if this happened to you ? Easy to say as you are

snuggled up to your SO. You have not experienced the hell of denial so why even

saying something like that ?

For those whose petitions have been returned I hope they find help and comfort here and not accusations. I am sure all their red flags if any have been thought through.

oh you know me so well!!!

Clearly I don't know what it feels like to be denied. That's not my point. I am trying to find out why people think that red flags and bad interviews can't constitute a denial.

I am not discrediting anyone here at all. I happen to have a difference of opinion about denials and I have the right to share it whethere you like it or not.

Since you know me, which insecurities am I trying to overcompensate for again? I didn't realize that you knew me so well!

I might not personally know what a denial feels like but I see it on here all the time. I wish everyone luck in their process. I think sometimes people just need to face the facts instead of pointing their fingers elsewhere.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Sarah your insensitivty here really speaks volumes. So you had a smooth time sailing through it all...well that is great and good for you...but to suggest someone has issues because of the denial ??? All she is doing is trying to help people so why discredit her like that ?

Sometimes I think you may be overcompensating with your posts from a deep sense of insecurity in your own life, frequently pointing fingers.

Tell me you would not be angry if this happened to you ? Easy to say as you are

snuggled up to your SO. You have not experienced the hell of denial so why even

saying something like that ?

For those whose petitions have been returned I hope they find help and comfort here and not accusations. I am sure all their red flags if any have been thought through.

Omoba,

I know from you posts here on VJ that you are a good person with a kind and loving heart. But I have to say to you, that Sarah is a deeply sensitive person. She is only asking some hard questions for people who will go through this process and need to understand the facts and come to VJ looking for answers. This dicussion is about more than one or 2 couples. It's about all of us and all the couple who will come here and read these forums in the future.

And unfortunately sometimes a couple doesn't think through red flags because they can't see beyond what they believe they see.

Thanks MBP. I'm glad that you understand where I am coming from and what I am trying to figure out. I really appreciate it!

[Jenn! 918]

Sarah your insensitivty here really speaks volumes. So you had a smooth time sailing through it all...well that is great and good for you...but to suggest someone has issues because of the denial ??? All she is doing is trying to help people so why discredit her like that ?

Sometimes I think you may be overcompensating with your posts from a deep sense of insecurity in your own life, frequently pointing fingers.

Tell me you would not be angry if this happened to you ? Easy to say as you are

snuggled up to your SO. You have not experienced the hell of denial so why even

saying something like that ?

For those whose petitions have been returned I hope they find help and comfort here and not accusations. I am sure all their red flags if any have been thought through.

Forget for a minute that Sarah had a successful petition through Morocco and pretend that she is a CO at the Casablanca consulate. Would you still feel that her comments were coming from a deep sense of insecurity?

I think it is immensely useful to get a perspective other than just the sympathetic one. Sure, the sympathetic and validating posts are great and helpful and comforting. But I think it's ultimately more useful to have insight into how a CO is viewing your case. I mean, that is the perspective that ultimately matters and that will determine your fate.

While I can't speak for Sarah, I can surmise that she sure as hell would be angry if this happened to her. Everyone feels that their relationship is valid and is stunned when a CO doesn't agree. Sarah's point is that no amount of evidence is going to overcome certain circumstances that flag fraud for a CO. That may be distasteful, especially to those who are suffering through it, but that's how it is.

We can all holler all we want about how unfair Casa is. But that's really beside the point. I don't have an easy solution, but I don't think you can say that it's not helpful to get a realistic picture of what's going on.

[Ta Ta 1]

This is a topic about red flags. Chi has been of great help to address the denial issue.

I am certain that Chi has insight into her red flags if there were any by now.

I still think that it was insensitive to make it personal about her 'issues'.

I did not see where it was a generalization, I took it as it was directed

personally at Chi.

I agree that everyone has to consider their own red flags and be fair

in assessing their own issues.

I was out of line by saying Sarah has her own insecurities. Indeed I don't know you

Sarah. My apologies. It just seemed to me you are quick to point out an assumption of fraud from

your other posts, especially the one with the 'SO's friends all have American woman'

and now you pointed to Chi to look at her own issues.

It just didn't fit in my opinion and seemed rather abrasive.

I agree to disagree. Peace

[Nasturtium 500]

IMHO the best 'practice' is to know one another very well. this cannot be faked. if one doesnt the other well enough to answer the simplest questions then the CO will likely consider the relationship fake. the only practice for this is to know each other.

chi

The problem we have is that they ask a lot of common cultural questions (as well as living together experience questions), and I am not a common cultural American. the last time I ever went to the movies was to see "The Life Aquatic." That was like 2 years ago! I don't have cable or watch TV. i collect epiphytic cacti and orchids. Do they ask people what their SO's favorite species of orchid is? Or what their present garden design is? Do they like Xeriscaping or tropicals? Do they collect dishware and tea towels? What is their favorite aspect in bioarchaeology or can your SO tell the difference between bone and wood in an excavation without sticking the fragments in their mouth?

So unfortunately, things like "what kinds of movies does she like" doesn't really work with us. I can tell you all about the above for my husband. I can say he likes pillow fights and dreams about re-stuccoing a wall and perhaps adding large gravel/sand to the mix and experimenting with hay. he can tell the difference between bone and wood and his favorite subject is cribra orbitalia and porotic hyperostosis in the Late byzantine and Early Roman periods. He likes Star academy and the news for whatever ungodly reasons.

He knows I like Green phals and orange cattleya alliance orchids. We both know I can make a faster dandelion garland than he can, but he is a better olive-picker than me. None of these things are in the general questions about people, except under something like "tell me about your wife." So as far as the basics... yes he knows my favorite colors, but my food preferences? they don't have artichokes there very often, and never in his village, so he would have never known it if I didn't flat out say. Everyone is just different So some of us have to spell out these things, especially if it's something not encountered together (my favorite foods) or something that may actually come out of living together- -when we haven't done that beyond the what, 13? 14? weeks I've been there... and traveling is different than living. I hate laundry there but love it here.

If he was asked, based on his experience, he would probably have the wrong answer! he doesn't know that I like Method laundry detergent from Target mmmm! He doesn't know about that detergent, our kinds of washers, or Target! So some of us have certain handicaps in general questioning to brush up on before an interview. And I am not one to consider his knowledge of my products and such to be binding as far as knowing me. He knows exactly what pisses me off or what makes me happy.. he can predict exactly what I will like to eat THERE based on his experiences with my tastes.. or what I love to do. He knows what I find cute in dishes or jewelry or clothing... so he does know me He knowns me inside and out. He just may not know exactly what I would choose in a store here

[JElsafty 0]

Hello. I don't post here much, but i still enjoy reading thru the threads. I know how upsetting it is when a petition is sent back for add'l evidence, stays in name checks forever and what not. There is a gal here that no longer is active, but we still talk often and she wanted me to relay this to everyone. Her fiance was from Kuwait and they met while she was stationed there 4 years ago. Early 2005 they started their K-1 process. Like others, it was taking forever to get an interview. Once the interview was granted everything seemed to be going as expected with AR and such and then when she emailed the embassy she was told she needed to show proof of their chat logs which she did. A few weeks letter after sending another email, she received a letter saying that her fiance was very active in talking to many women online and suspected her case as fraud. When confronting her fiance about this he of course denied everything saying that his friends were doing this to him. So she made up another ID and started investigating herself. Sure enough he began chatting with her too professing his love to her! Now she is so very thankful the CO did their work and kept her from entering a bad marriage. As much as it angers us all when a case takes forever, there are really some circumstances that it does help.

[chiquita 0]

I am trying to find out why people think that red flags and bad interviews can't constitute a denial.

cuz it just doesnt. did you not read the definition of red flag? it doesnt mean a visa denial. as to the bad interview, my husband had noproblem with it. it seems the CO did. is this what you meant by bad interview?

I am not discrediting anyone here at all. I happen to have a difference of opinion about denials and I have the right to share it whethere you like it or not.

i was not aware it was even about opinions. we all have those. i speak from experience and from facts.

I might not personally know what a denial feels like but I see it on here all the time.

i am so glad you mentioned that. it is a good subject to discuss since it happens more than we really know.

I think sometimes people just need to face the facts instead of pointing their fingers elsewhere.

i think the finger was aimed at me. then i guess i aimed my finger at the CO who denied us a visa and lied about it. then i was able to prove to USCIS all of these facts and they agreed with me as did the new CO who did our second interview.

chi

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Great idea Jenn!

another 'red flag' is a big age difference, especially where the woman is a lot older.

many also suggest that that 'looks' are important. (sad i know)

lack of a job/education

so in theory, an older average overweight Christian woman sending money to a handsome unemployed young muscle Muslim man would be considered a few big red flags.

is that justified??? i dont think so. but it is the truth so please dont be offended. this is just the way it is.

what amazes me is that women seem to be the ones suffering from much of this where you see 50 year old men getting visas approved for 20 year olds. Yet how many men get put through the ringer like these women do

[sarah and hicham 3]

Great idea Jenn!

another 'red flag' is a big age difference, especially where the woman is a lot older.

many also suggest that that 'looks' are important. (sad i know)

lack of a job/education

so in theory, an older average overweight Christian woman sending money to a handsome unemployed young muscle Muslim man would be considered a few big red flags.

is that justified??? i dont think so. but it is the truth so please dont be offended. this is just the way it is.

what amazes me is that women seem to be the ones suffering from much of this where you see 50 year old men getting visas approved for 20 year olds. Yet how many men get put through the ringer like these women do

I assume that you're talking more along the lines of Asian countries in which case you really can't compare MENA with their Consulates. It seems to be a different ballgame over there. MENA is more older women who are divorced (and who might have kids) with much younger men.

[Caladan 19]

If their wives are from high-fraud countries, they do. The age gap isn't a flag, but other factors can be (like what district their fiancé is from, &c.) It's just that the Moroccan profile of someone trying to use a USC to get into the U.S. often involves a large age gap.

Zoloft Needed, it sounds like your friend, as unfortunate as her story was, ended up very lucky.

[LASPENCE 0]

I think before I wrote down 3/4 red flags for me.. but i think it is just 3.

the First being that we did get married relatively soon after we first started talking.. My husband knew about me Months before I knew about him.. My friend thinks she is SUCH the match maker So he(and his family) already felt like he "knew" me before we even started talking.. (pictures and everything!!!) The both of us being 30's.. and knowing we still had a long road ahead of us(visa, inshallah).. And wanted to Keep things as Halal as possible.. We deceided to get married.

the Second being that we got married 3 days after I was there.. but Alhamdulillah.. I was sick of always being chaperoned.. We always had a third person there.. even when we were IM'ing/ webcaming.. my H is modern BUT very religious. It wasnt until our wedding nite that we were ever alone..

the Third being Long gaps of time from when we see each other.. Given that I have alot of responsibilities here.. Family, Work, bills... etc It is expensive coughing up the dough (even more from his end - due to the economy in Egypt) Getting the time off from my Job... well.. I'm sure everyone here knows the drill..

so thats about it...

In the end.. i still stick to that I married Him for him... not for what the embassy finds desirable.. AND if push comes to Shove.. and the Embassy denies us.. I would move over there. Him coming here would make things easier for ME for now.. But Just being with him is the most important thing

congrad on your visa, your first 2 red flag you though you might have did the co question your husband reguarding your short time knowing of each other and the fast marraige if so what were your reply im in the same situation just waitting thank you

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I don't remember how I found this but it needs a bump.

The only red flag I feel we have would be #9.

I think since this topic was formed that the consulates office may have added another red flag which can be found on their site.

Many marriages between Egyptians and Americans are successful. However, the Embassy warns against marriage fraud on the part of the American or the Egyptian. Entering into a marriage contract for the principal purpose of facilitating immigration to the United States for an alien is against U.S. law and can result in serious penalties, including fines and imprisonment for the American citizen and the Egyptian. At the same time, it is not uncommon for Egyptians to enter into marriages with Americans solely for immigration purposes. Relationships developed via correspondence, particularly those begun on the Internet, are particularly susceptible to manipulation. The US government urges Americans who meet Egyptians on the Internet or while touring the country, to take the time necessary to get to know them before considering marriage. Unfortunately, the Embassy sees many cases of abuse against American spouses and often the marriages end in divorce when the Egyptian acquires a green card or citizenship in the U.S. These cases invariably occur when the relationship is based mostly on Internet communication and very little face-to-face interaction.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1108.html

I also read this in another post. This does kinda go along with the #9 I guess...hmmmm...