I am pissed off!^&*@%

[sophyie 0]

You won't win everyone over. Some people are very happy with the paradigms they have and won't change them to suit anyone. But over time, others will find their eyes opened to WHY you love your man. Its hard to be thick skinned but hold onto what you KNOW and leave others to their opinions.

Maybe this is cynical of me, but personally I don't think I would bother to give others the benefit of time to open their eyes if they made it clear in the beginning that they did not trust my choice. I think I would cut them out. Of course, this could just be a whole lot of talk on my part, since fortunately I did not have to deal with negativity about my relationship.

Don't you think it might very often be plain fear of the "unknown"?

Different culture, different language- never met before... plus- their loved one (daughter, sister, cousin...) will marry or is already married to someone they don't know anything about!

I think a lot of people are simply afraid of what they don't know and instead of being curious, they oppose it.

I'd hope that given time that would change in most of the cases...

[ya falaha! 0]

I agree, Jen. I don't plan on arranging a meeting between Moh and my parents when he's here (isa). If our paths cross, fine, if not, great. They closed the buddy buddy door long ago.

You won't win everyone over. Some people are very happy with the paradigms they have and won't change them to suit anyone. But over time, others will find their eyes opened to WHY you love your man. Its hard to be thick skinned but hold onto what you KNOW and leave others to their opinions.

Maybe this is cynical of me, but personally I don't think I would bother to give others the benefit of time to open their eyes if they made it clear in the beginning that they did not trust my choice. I think I would cut them out. Of course, this could just be a whole lot of talk on my part, since fortunately I did not have to deal with negativity about my relationship.

[doodlebug 3]

I agree, Jen. I don't plan on arranging a meeting between Moh and my parents when he's here (isa). If our paths cross, fine, if not, great. They closed the buddy buddy door long ago.

My sister is going to host a party for us when he gets here, insha Allah, and while she will invite them, I won't sweat it if they don't come.

[Henia 11]

I certainaly would be telling this to my friend...what if they were in your shoes, would they feel the same?

~Kiyah~

I agree with Rahma as well.

I asked this person, the same thing, her reply was: I would not marry someone I had to seperated with. It defeats the purpose of marriage. This just made me more PO, but it's ok. As Doodle says we have to look at the source. Many people are judgmental cos they want to take the attention off of them and/or to force on others their opinions.

My husband wants to meet my family, actually visit them soon (finances allowing) I am all for visiting my country and town, but not too happy about visiting my family. I love them and all, but I know their form of radical thinking... I donnot like it!

[Henia 11]

I certainaly would be telling this to my friend...what if they were in your shoes, would they feel the same?

~Kiyah~

I agree with Rahma as well.

I asked this person, the same thing, her reply was: I would not marry someone I had to seperated with. It defeats the purpose of marriage. This just made me more PO, but it's ok. As Doodle says we have to look at the source. Many people are judgmental cos they want to take the attention off of them and/or to force on others their opinions.

My husband wants to meet my family, actually visit them soon (finances allowing) I am all for visiting my country and town, but not too happy about visiting my family. I love them and all, but I know their form of radical thinking... I donnot like it!

OOOPS sorry double post.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Henia

[melly 0]

When my fiance went to talk with a trusted friend/dr. at the masjid he likes to go to, and explain our situation, the man mentioned the hadith about not being seperated for more than 4 months. he said why not wait til we could be together to get married, and just be engaged while we were waiting.

neither of us feel that waiting is the right option, but i don't know enough about the hadith or why it might be okay to go against it.

I would hope Allah would understand and accept our reasons for doing things.

Remember Henia that your friend might be able to tell you about a hadith, but she does not know what Allah will think about your situation and it's none of her business to tell you that you are wrong and judge you.

[Nasturtium 500]

OK, so I think that there is also an issue of what constitutes seperation.

Are you really seperated when you still write letters, email, chat, speak on the phone, etc?? Physically, yes. But this is not the same as abandonment. I think that's an important issue. I had heard that the 4 month thing was also voluntary-- like if you agree to a seperation, and you have an end, then tehre is nothing wrong with this.

OK my biggest pet peeve????? "Have you seen that film "Not without my Daughter?" he is going to kidnap your children!!!!"

ARRGGGHHH! If one more person teels me to watch that film and then divorce my husband..

[Henia 11]

When my fiance went to talk with a trusted friend/dr. at the masjid he likes to go to, and explain our situation, the man mentioned the hadith about not being seperated for more than 4 months. he said why not wait til we could be together to get married, and just be engaged while we were waiting.

neither of us feel that waiting is the right option, but i don't know enough about the hadith or why it might be okay to go against it.

I would hope Allah would understand and accept our reasons for doing things.

Remember Henia that your friend might be able to tell you about a hadith, but she does not know what Allah will think about your situation and it's none of her business to tell you that you are wrong and judge you.

You are so right Melly I feel much better now!

[Henia 11]

OK, so I think that there is also an issue of what constitutes seperation.

Are you really seperated when you still write letters, email, chat, speak on the phone, etc?? Physically, yes. But this is not the same as abandonment. I think that's an important issue. I had heard that the 4 month thing was also voluntary-- like if you agree to a seperation, and you have an end, then tehre is nothing wrong with this.

OK my biggest pet peeve????? "Have you seen that film "Not without my Daughter?" he is going to kidnap your children!!!!"

ARRGGGHHH! If one more person teels me to watch that film and then divorce my husband..

Ye tell me about it. My mum actually send me the DVD. I saw this film when it came out, and even then I knew it was child custody/martial issue film....had really nothing to do with ME/NA people. Yes, this does happen, but rarely. And this problem is not exclusive to ME/NA!

Edited February 5, 2007 by Henia

[doodlebug 3]

OK, so I think that there is also an issue of what constitutes seperation.

Are you really seperated when you still write letters, email, chat, speak on the phone, etc?? Physically, yes. But this is not the same as abandonment. I think that's an important issue. I had heard that the 4 month thing was also voluntary-- like if you agree to a seperation, and you have an end, then tehre is nothing wrong with this.

OK my biggest pet peeve????? "Have you seen that film "Not without my Daughter?" he is going to kidnap your children!!!!"

ARRGGGHHH! If one more person teels me to watch that film and then divorce my husband..

everyone thought it best for me to know about that movie too...like duh...i watch lifetime too ya know!!!

And then on 9/11 when they had all the specials about it I got about three calls from various individuals wondering how I can take "their side".

[Henia 11]

OK, so I think that there is also an issue of what constitutes seperation.

Are you really seperated when you still write letters, email, chat, speak on the phone, etc?? Physically, yes. But this is not the same as abandonment. I think that's an important issue. I had heard that the 4 month thing was also voluntary-- like if you agree to a seperation, and you have an end, then tehre is nothing wrong with this.

OK my biggest pet peeve????? "Have you seen that film "Not without my Daughter?" he is going to kidnap your children!!!!"

ARRGGGHHH! If one more person teels me to watch that film and then divorce my husband..

everyone thought it best for me to know about that movie too...like duh...i watch lifetime too ya know!!!

And then on 9/11 when they had all the specials about it I got about three calls from various individuals wondering how I can take "their side".

AT my (old) place of employment, when the airplane hit I was just coming to work and my co-workers asked me 'why my people did this?' huh?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

My input was requested in this thread by the OP, so I will respond. Insha'allah, I will not be mocked in the future for giving it.

Bismillah. All knowledge is from Allah.

First, Henia, it is good that you ask. One's relationship with God and one's in faith Him is only strengthened by the accumulation of knowledge. In my efort to help you, let me supply the divine directive from the Quran, as that was not done by the person who sent to you only ahadith.

al-Baqarah 2:223-227:

Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how you will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear God, and know that you are to meet Him in the Hereafter, and give these good tidings to those who believe. And make not God's name an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for God is One Who hears and knows all things. God will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing. For those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting for four months is ordained; if then they return, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. But if their intention is firm for divorce, God hears and knows all things.

In the past, before Islam was introduced on the Arabian penninsula, husbands sometimes cruelly practiced a custom where they remained married to a woman, but pronounced her to be as a sister or a mother to him, and would no longer lay with her, nor could she divorce from him. Islam forbid such a practice, and put contraints on the length of time a husband could keep his wife in limbo.

This passage in al-Baqarah refers to an oath, the "ila", that a husband may take to abstain from sexual intercourse with his wife, a trail separation, so to speak. The directive limits the time that an ila can remain in force, thus granting an "automatic divorce" at the end of four months, if it is not rescinded and normal relations resumed. In limiting the time, it allows the woman freedom to remarry to someone else.

If their intention is for divorce, this is the procedure under taken. That is not the case in your marriage. You separation is not willful, your situation is mutual, the love in your hearts for each other and desire for each other has not died. When you can be reunited, you will do so joyfully.

You do not meet the requirements set forth by God to be automatically divorced, therefore, your friend is incorrect when she tells you this, and you may quote my advisement to you as part of your response to her.

On the subject matter of Muslims judging other Muslims, Allah in fact, directs us to do so, in that He says for us to enjoin the good and reject the evil, and we are to provide guidance where needed. However, it is important to be able to provide sufficient dalil to support your claims of authority, and in sending you ahadith out of context, and there MUST be context, she did you no favor. It is not sufficient to provide a positive or negative opinion about a matter in Islam without dalil; it is not correct to condemn without it, nor to provide relief without it. It is ALWAYS best to determine the proper practice objectively, and not merely to suit our desires.

I hope that the dalil I have provided is sufficient to provide comfort to you regarding this issue. May Allah guide us all.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[babybunny 2]

I have heard it all too Doodle:

How much money is he giving me to bring him here?

Did he beat me?

Will he work?

How many wives does he have?

etc etc...

Most times does not bother me, but sometimes I am like #######

I heard the same stuff. until people saw the time we were apart. then my friends started to realize my loyalty to my man. but, rember when we left to marry we heard just as harsh words.

this is what I will tell you.. dont listion to other people. like my mom said - I will say it 1001 times more.

ONLY YOU can sing your own song!!!

[Henia 11]

My input was requested in this thread by the OP, so I will respond. Insha'allah, I will not be mocked in the future for giving it.

Bismillah. All knowledge is from Allah.

First, Henia, it is good that you ask. One's relationship with God and one's in faith Him is only strengthened by the accumulation of knowledge. In my efort to help you, let me supply the divine directive from the Quran, as that was not done by the person who sent to you only ahadith.

al-Baqarah 2:223-227:

Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how you will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear God, and know that you are to meet Him in the Hereafter, and give these good tidings to those who believe. And make not God's name an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for God is One Who hears and knows all things. God will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing. For those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting for four months is ordained; if then they return, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. But if their intention is firm for divorce, God hears and knows all things.

In the past, before Islam was introduced on the Arabian penninsula, husbands sometimes cruelly practiced a custom where they remained married to a woman, but pronounced her to be as a sister or a mother to him, and would no longer lay with her, nor could she divorce from him. Islam forbid such a practice, and put contraints on the length of time a husband could keep his wife in limbo.

This passage in al-Baqarah refers to an oath, the "ila", that a husband may take to abstain from sexual intercourse with his wife, a trail separation, so to speak. The directive limits the time that an ila can remain in force, thus granting an "automatic divorce" at the end of four months, if it is not rescinded and normal relations resumed. In limiting the time, it allows the woman freedom to remarry to someone else.

If their intention is for divorce, this is the procedure under taken. That is not the case in your marriage. You separation is not willful, your situation is mutual, the love in your hearts for each other and desire for each other has not died. When you can be reunited, you will do so joyfully.

You do not meet the requirements set forth by God to be automatically divorced, therefore, your friend is incorrect when she tells you this, and you may quote my advisement to you as part of your response to her.

On the subject matter of Muslims judging other Muslims, Allah in fact, directs us to do so, in that He says for us to enjoin the good and reject the evil, and we are to provide guidance where needed. However, it is important to be able to provide sufficient dalil to support your claims of authority, and in sending you ahadith out of context, and there MUST be context, she did you no favor. It is not sufficient to provide a positive or negative opinion about a matter in Islam without dalil; it is not correct to condemn without it, nor to provide relief without it. It is ALWAYS best to determine the proper practice objectively, and not merely to suit our desires.

I hope that the dalil I have provided is sufficient to provide comfort to you regarding this issue. May Allah guide us all.

Lei chilmik ...thanks for posting It is as I thought it was, but now got the proof.And yes, finally may God help us all.

babybuuny: you are right too... we can only sing our own tune.

[Ban Hammer 13,283]

Esalaam Hello and Salut

So, I am sitting here reading email after email from a friend in Europe, who is giving me Hadith after Hadith about being seperated from my husband. We all know this one; not to be seperated from our husband more then 4months, lest the eyes may wonder and after a 4month seperation there is a divorce by default. #######... come ladies give me some support on this. This is just BS. I donnot appreciate my so-called-friends advice, esp since I did not ask for it. I know we *should* not be seperated from our spouses, but come on it is not like we want to be. And since it was discussed before hand, this does not apply. Anyone have any supporting information here or just want rant and rage with me?

This is a serious thread, not a joke, so I would appreciate no sarcastic comments, comments aimed to hurt or point fingers.... just cold hard evidence/information and some support. We are all in the same nasty boat. We all need support.

PS: Also rude comments from family and friends regarding the seperation and/or marrying a ME/NA person can be posted here.

henia, i believe there is a major difference between voluntary separation versus involuntary separation. i believe your "friend" has forgotten to factor this in.

also might not be a bad idea to find new friends. friends should be supportive, not destructive.

Edited February 6, 2007 by charlesandnessa