RFE- Proof of intent to marry (long post, sorry)

[team_gn 1]

Hi VJ Friends,

I received our RFE in the mail today for proof of intent to marry. I've typed out the relevant text below:

PROOF OF INTENT TO MARRY (NEW I-129F FILING INSTRUCTIONS)

You must submit evidence that you and the beneficiary intend to marry within 90 days of the beneficiary's entry to the United States as a K-1. Evidence may include, but is not limited to, copies of correspondence between you and the beneficiary discussing wedding plans, evidence of wedding plans such as announcements, plans made to reserve a venue for the wedding, or any other evidence of your intent to marry one another, including, for example, an original statement from the beneficiary establishing his or her intent to marry you within 90 days of his or her admission to the United States.

Note: Please explain the nature of your relationship and how and when did it start?

Also, submit evidence of engagement photographs.

A little background.

I met my fiance at work. I work for a major financial institution, and he was part of the team in India that supports our processes. We only spoke a little at work via IM, mostly on work matters, at first. But, eventually we decided to get to know each other outside of work. We became Facebook friends, and quickly found ourselves talking away the entire weekend. And the relationship progressed from there. This started last spring/summer, 2013.

He's 30 years old, I'm 35 years old. He's Indian, I'm African-American. Given the fact that we were working together at the time we got engaged, and the fact that we are both friends with a lot of the people that we worked with, and the fact that marriage in India is such a loaded, tricky subject, we didn't broadcast our relationship. My family and a few friends know, and he told his parents and his sister that we plan to marry, but that's it. No engagement party (he doesn't even like most of his relatives). I don't have a ring, and don't want one. No engagement photos, no booking wedding venues (we're going to marry at the courthouse). Most of our communication is verbal via Skype or phone calls.

In the original K1 package I submitted signed statements with original signature from each of us stating that we intend to marry each other within 90 of his arrival in the US on K-1. One from him, one from me. I also submitted a lot of evidence of our relationship, such as Facebook conversations, prints from Skype that show the duration of our conversations (but not the content), notes that we had written to each other, and photographs of us together when I went to visit him last year.

I would really appreciate any input on how best to respond to this RFE. I have asked a few family and friends if they could please write letters on our behalf stating what they know about our relationship. But the remainder of the evidence just doesn't exist.

Thank you very much for your help.

[Marco&Bettina 502]

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This is strange. It sounds like you did everything you were supposed to. Maybe someone who's encountered the same issue can say what they did.

[xxryu139xx 2]

i proposed first before sending in our K1 application. only evidence i sent were photos of the ring on her hand, photos of us and with her family and mine within the last 2 years dated and stating where, receipt of the engagement ring, plane tickets, and letters of intent to marry.

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

Strange because proof of intent to marry is not a new filing instruction.

From page 5 of the instructions >

b. Submit evidence that you and your fiancé(e) intend to marry within 90 days of your fiancé(e)'s entry as a K-1.
Evidence of your intention to marry may include a statement of intent to marry.

For most people, the statements of intent are enough. For some reason they are wanting extra evidence from you. Affidavits from the family that know about your engagement could go along with new statements of intent to marry and a relationship outline/timeline that shows the entire progression of your relationship. If you have any written correspondence at all where you speak about your engagement or plans to marry, then of course add those in too. I suppose you can also try and explain that you did not have an engagement party and plan to marry at the courthouse once in the US.

[CowBoE 429]

That's really too bad.

I think because the way our society is...

my speculation is that you are being unfairly scrutinized because

1. you are older by 5 years (which is really not much in reality)

2. you are African-American and he's Indian (which couples you don't see often)

3. they could suspect that he might be interested in GC more than marriage

please don't get offend it...I'm just trying to put my shoes in their head

and just thinking out loud what they could be suspecting...

As for us...

We didn't have engagement party

We didn't have engagement rings

We didn't have wedding venue details

We submitted about 50 pages of Skype chat, emails, and phone call history for I-129F petition

and prepared about 100 pages for the interview. But they didn't ask or looked at

any relationship evidence during the interview. And we got approved.

But when I visited her, I did have a dinner with her family at a restaurant,

and a separate dinner with her friends, and we took pictures there

for our evidence to show that our marriage is publicized to her families

and friends.

Also, in our (written) conversation, we talked a lot about our future marriage life...

we often planned and discussed things like...where and when to sign up her for

English classes, learning to drive, what type of work/business I can help her do,

what type of food we could cook together, what things we can do together,

where we would want to go on vacation, what I liked in life, what she liked in life...

basically...they could clearly see that we were already planning and

building our future marriage life as we were going through the petition.

I think its totally unfair to you but since we are at their mercy and they are just doing their job...

it may help to starting building some evidence of your conversation in writing.

We knew this ahead of time, so though we mostly talked on video, we continued to email

and Skype chat-ed to build written evidence.

Getting notarized affidavit from both sides of friends and families acknowledging your marriage

should definitely also help. You can even draft up some tentative wedding and honeymoon plan

(which can change later).

By the way, it wasn't clear...

Are you currently in US, and he's in India?

Have you met him in person within last 2 years?

If possible, another physical meeting between two of you,

and with families and friends should help also.

Gosh...you don't need this pressure on top of what will be a long wait.

Hope all goes well..

[team_gn 1]

Hi,

Thanks for the support. This is certainly extra stress that we don't need.

To answer a few questions- Yes, my fiance is still in India, and I'm in the U.S. We met for the first time last November, 2013. I traveled to India. As soon as I returned home we applied for a visitor visa for him so that he could come see my side of the world and meet my family before we made any specific marriage plans(we were already engaged at that point, but hadn't set a date for marriage or filing for a fiance visa). Of course, it was denied. So we went ahead and filed for the K-1. I am going to visit him again in India in about 4 weeks.

I'm taking everyone's suggestion to ask friends and family for letters of support. It will be a little one-sided (to my side) because my fiance and I are both friends with a lot of the same people whom we both worked with, both in India and in the U.S., and with whom we were working together when we met. He's moved on to a new company, but I still work in the old company in the same group. We all know how office gossip works, and there will be plenty of talk anyway when we actually get married and he moves here. We can ask his parents and his sister for letters of support, but we haven't told anyone else over there about our relationship. Marriage in India is a very touchy subject, and anything outside of the norm has to be handled very delicately.

[CowBoE 429]

Hi,

Thanks for the support. This is certainly extra stress that we don't need.

To answer a few questions- Yes, my fiance is still in India, and I'm in the U.S. We met for the first time last November, 2013. I traveled to India. As soon as I returned home we applied for a visitor visa for him so that he could come see my side of the world and meet my family before we made any specific marriage plans(we were already engaged at that point, but hadn't set a date for marriage or filing for a fiance visa). Of course, it was denied. So we went ahead and filed for the K-1. I am going to visit him again in India in about 4 weeks.

I'm taking everyone's suggestion to ask friends and family for letters of support. It will be a little one-sided (to my side) because my fiance and I are both friends with a lot of the same people whom we both worked with, both in India and in the U.S., and with whom we were working together when we met. He's moved on to a new company, but I still work in the old company in the same group. We all know how office gossip works, and there will be plenty of talk anyway when we actually get married and he moves here. We can ask his parents and his sister for letters of support, but we haven't told anyone else over there about our relationship. Marriage in India is a very touchy subject, and anything outside of the norm has to be handled very delicately.

I don't know how much time they gave you for RFE response, but certainly another meeting will be a big booster.

Try to get pictures with him but also with his immediate families at least while you are there. Save all your airline tickets, hotel receipts, etc. for evidence.

Because so many are trying all sorts of fraudulent ways to sneak into US that most of the scrutiny is

usually on the foreign fiance(e) side. You should also include a letter that clearly explains how you two

worked in the same company and how you became close. This is such a natural way for people to meet.

[nadeshiko 0]

We received an RFE last June 2014: Proof of Intent to Marry. We already submitted the Letter of Intent to Marry when my fiance (petitioner) submitted the I-129F packet. But for the RFE reply, we both sent again a Letter of Intent to Marry (w/ original signature) and a Letter from the Priest who will initiate our Church Wedding. We received the NOA2 after a few weeks

Try to read also the RFE Masterlist in this forum.

[kehills 217]

When you do submit your RFE, you may want to include information about or actual had discussions on religion, handling religious differences (either between yourselves or you/him and your/his family), etc.

I doubt age is a factor here, but it sounds like they might have concerns around culture/religion.

In your petition, did you both include a summary of how you met and how you moved from colleagues to friends to relationship?

[BobH 17]

I guess my answer to " evidence of wedding plans such as announcements, plans made to reserve a venue for the wedding, or any other evidence of your intent to marry" would be, "When you guarantee a date she will have a visa I will reserve a venue.

Personally I have no "plans", we intend to get married at the court house and go out to dinner with the "wedding party", my kids.

[dbuizert 14]

If this would happen to us we would be screwed. We primairily use voice (skype). So I attached skype call times as proof. Days going 24+ hours.

Best of luck adding things people stated here that could help. I think more proof such as religous aspects could help a lot.

[team_gn 1]

I did not include a timeline of the relationship in my initial I-129F filing, because it is not required. I actually submitted more evidence than was required per the instructions. Also, I did not address any religious or cultural questions in this initial package, because it doesn't appear to be required at this point. I expected these types of issues to be raised at the consular level, and was preparing to address them at that time. From my reading in the forums I basically got that only a handful of things are required for a I-129F petition to be approved at the USCIS level and sent on to the consulate in the beneficiary's country for a final decision. We both have to be free to marry, we have to state that we intend to do so within 90 days of my fiance's arrival in the U.S. on K-1, we have to have physically met each other within the past 2 years, and we have to show proof that we have a relationship. And maybe a handful of other things. I interpret this to mean that, at this point, no one is looking for a life story, just the basics. I added the extra stuff for the benefit of the consulate in New Delhi, not USCIS. And this seemed a pretty standard and safe route to go. It is just more than a little frustrating and irritating that they are asking for items not requested in the instructions. Had they asked, we would have supplied them. Now I'm just complaining. I'm finished now, thanks for listening.

If this would happen to us we would be screwed. We primairily use voice (skype). So I attached skype call times as proof. Days going 24+ hours.

Best of luck adding things people stated here that could help. I think more proof such as religous aspects could help a lot.

Yeah, that's our problem too. We talk, we don't type. I did the same as you, attaching Skype logs showing the call times and days.

[Ed and Gina 45]

How long did USCIS give you for a response? Make sure that your visit to your intended is well within the time frame. Although, while a 2nd visit should re-enforce your claim of a bonafide relationship...it might look suspicious, too! Just sayin'! In the meantime, you might try sending more detailed info...explain that you're going to get married by a Justice of the Peace/at a courthouse...and, be honest...if your intended doesn't get along all that well with his relatives...it is what it is. As others have said, USCIS is looking at the potential for a fraudulent relationship for purposes of obtaining a Green Card. And, resubmit letters of intent to marry with original signatures. As for announcing plans to wed...have a wedding announcement made...or, make it yourself!!!

It does sound like they're scrutinizing your fiance's intentions. Somehow...whichever family members he does like...the two of you might want to have dinner/lunch or something with them while you're visiting. Perhaps letters from them congratulating your intended and you might be helpful.

Good luck!!

[ricnally 258]

It could simply be that they lost the letters you sent. We received an RFE for something that we had definitely sent. We sent the exact same thing again and it was fine.

[caiti92 23]

I'm hoping that they have lost your letters or something along those lines. Or else, it's pretty obvious you guys are being discriminated against for not being a more "traditional" couple. My fiance is 5 years older than me as well and we had zero concrete wedding plans made when we submitted the petition. First of all, I am an incredibly poor college student and secondly, he was here working on a J-1 making barely above minimum wage at the time. As such, we simply can't afford to have our "proper" wedding when he first arrives again and our plans are to marry in the court house initially and then a have ceremony next summer. We had no engagement party and have sent out no invitations or anything along those lines.

When we submitted our petition, we included:

- 2 intent to marry within in 90 day letters signed and dated from either of us (copied from VJ).

- a supplemental letter attached to the petition explaining more in depth our relationship history (as suggested by VJ)

- itineraries and old plane/train tickets as well as passport scans of the pages that were stamped by customs in either country to support relationship history

- his temporary license for the state of GA

- a couple cards from different occasions in our relationship

- 7 pictures with date, location and significance on the back (my engagement ring is visible in one photo, but it's not obviously noticeable)

We submitted no chat histories or screen shots, largely for the same reasons you have listed. When we have been apart, we have always video chatted with very minimal typing or texting. Additionally, he'd been living with me for the larger part of the year. I suppose that is the only key difference in our situations, but I can't understand how any of that addresses intent to marry within 90 days any better than yours. The letters from both of you should have sufficed, which is what makes me think they must have lost them. I mean, it even lists the letters as sufficient evidence in the text of the RFE.

Maybe try calling the USCIS helpline to address these concerns and inquire as to whether or not your original letters of intent were received/lost? If I were you, I would do as ricnally did and just resend the original letters ASAP.

Edited August 17, 2014 by caiti92