Should we get an attorney?

[Namaenai 3]

My husband filed our petition in august 2013. We received 2 RFEs since...still waiting for USCIS to receive the reply to second one. My husband is really bad with filing documents and absolutely hates paperwork...he was honest about that from the start.

From what I've read here we still have a very long road ahead and whats hard is still to come.

Would it be wise AND faster to just hire someone to take care of the paperwork PROPERLY? Someone who actually knows what they are doing?

Or is it just a waste of money?

I know a lot of people here have done things themselves, but I thought I'd add my perspective. I am an attorney (not immigration). Based on my own experience in other areas of law, I felt it was in my best interest to hire an attorney for our applications. We do have a few quirks that could create wrinkles for us (my spouse was adopted as an infant), but I wanted to turn things over to someone who knew the ins and outs of dealing with USCIS and the NVC. I have 3 other attorney friends who have gone through the process in recent years - 2 handled it themselves and the other used the same attorney as me.

We are still only about halfway through the process (just got our NOA2 yesterday), but I don't regret the decision to hire our attorney. Although I have been frustrated with her at times (and her fees were about 25% higher than some of the other attorneys I spoke to), she has been a good resource for explaining the process, etc. and for making sure we have all the documents we need and that they are the right documents. Yes, there is a lot of good information here, but I have also seen wrong information here or stuff that is just based on speculation, so you need to be sure you are comfortable enough wading through what is good advice and what is not. At times, I have been frustrated having an attorney, but that is the control freak in me and just the nature of the process.

Another option to consider is a non-attorney immigration adviser (those are very common here in LA). I think they operate in a grey area of the law, but they are cheaper than an attorney and the good ones seem to know the ins and outs of the law very well. (My friend's mother does that and some of her guidance was actually a little better than I got from my attorney, at least just from the "don't worry, here is how it will play out" perspective.)

If you have already gotten 2 RFEs (particularly for forgetting to include relevant documents), I would say find a reputable attorney or adviser to help you through it (but get referrals - there are a lot of scammers out there). In my own line of practice, I have seen many people have more frustration than they need because they thought they could handle things on their own without really understanding what they are getting themselves into. Immigration is certainly an area where you can do it on your own if you can wrap your head around the process, but sometimes it is worth the extra expense of using someone who is an expert

[NikLR 13,227]

There are many people on this site that should be doing this with an attorney, either because they don't understand the forms well enough, or don't have the time to devote to it. Choosing your attorney or visa service is not an easy thing to do. I agree that referrals are a must.

[POA 178]

Lol! My Husband hates paperworks too so I was the one who researched and filled out some and just had him print and signed it, I also asked him to double check and read me the documents he was sending and to which address. Sometimes I annoyed him but he was ok and said after this, I will be the one to take care of the following papers. He was referring to the ROC. lol. Probably run another check before he put everything in the envelope.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I know a lot of people here have done things themselves, but I thought I'd add my perspective. I am an attorney (not immigration). Based on my own experience in other areas of law, I felt it was in my best interest to hire an attorney for our applications. We do have a few quirks that could create wrinkles for us (my spouse was adopted as an infant), but I wanted to turn things over to someone who knew the ins and outs of dealing with USCIS and the NVC. I have 3 other attorney friends who have gone through the process in recent years - 2 handled it themselves and the other used the same attorney as me.

We are still only about halfway through the process (just got our NOA2 yesterday), but I don't regret the decision to hire our attorney. Although I have been frustrated with her at times (and her fees were about 25% higher than some of the other attorneys I spoke to), she has been a good resource for explaining the process, etc. and for making sure we have all the documents we need and that they are the right documents. Yes, there is a lot of good information here, but I have also seen wrong information here or stuff that is just based on speculation, so you need to be sure you are comfortable enough wading through what is good advice and what is not. At times, I have been frustrated having an attorney, but that is the control freak in me and just the nature of the process.

Another option to consider is a non-attorney immigration adviser (those are very common here in LA). I think they operate in a grey area of the law, but they are cheaper than an attorney and the good ones seem to know the ins and outs of the law very well. (My friend's mother does that and some of her guidance was actually a little better than I got from my attorney, at least just from the "don't worry, here is how it will play out" perspective.)

If you have already gotten 2 RFEs (particularly for forgetting to include relevant documents), I would say find a reputable attorney or adviser to help you through it (but get referrals - there are a lot of scammers out there). In my own line of practice, I have seen many people have more frustration than they need because they thought they could handle things on their own without really understanding what they are getting themselves into. Immigration is certainly an area where you can do it on your own if you can wrap your head around the process, but sometimes it is worth the extra expense of using someone who is an expert

Please clarify where there is wrong information in the VJ Guides and what is speculation. Of course some people give the wrong advice

but for the most part several experienced long term members will correct those posters and one must always check the guides for the

basic information. There are check lists that in my opinion are much more detailed than the average attorney check list.

I picked a lawyer out of a 42 recommended ones. I emailed them and got a feel for what they knew on the phone and hung up on several

that were clueless when I asked them some basic questions I already had answers to. They didn't even pass first base.

I then hired a lawyer who came recommended and fired him because he screwed up.

I am doing a much better job myself now the second time around with the VJ community and guides and special threads full of correct

detailed information. Collective experience is so valuable, especially when embassy specific where so many lawyers are just lost.

I do think that a good referred attorney is needed for legal issues and lots of red flags the couple may have. For the basic petition I just read

way too many posts about incompetent lawyers who delay petitions with silly things and don't stay in contact enough and the petitioners

end up here totally lost asking questions and are amazed at how their lawyer messed them up.

Proceed with caution if you think you must have a lawyer and don't take the first one even if his web site is full of impressive content is my advice. Ask some questions you already know the answers to and watch them squirm.

[Namaenai 3]

Please clarify where there is wrong information in the VJ Guides and what is speculation. Of course some people give the wrong advice

but for the most part several experienced long term members will correct those posters and one must always check the guides for the

basic information. There are check lists that in my opinion are much more detailed than the average attorney check list.

I picked a lawyer out of a 42 recommended ones. I emailed them and got a feel for what they knew on the phone and hung up on several

that were clueless when I asked them some basic questions I already had answers to. They didn't even pass first base.

I then hired a lawyer who came recommended and fired him because he screwed up.

I am doing a much better job myself now the second time around with the VJ community and guides and special threads full of correct

detailed information. Collective experience is so valuable, especially when embassy specific where so many lawyers are just lost.

I do think that a good referred attorney is needed for legal issues and lots of red flags the couple may have. For the basic petition I just read

way too many posts about incompetent lawyers who delay petitions with silly things and don't stay in contact enough and the petitioners

end up here totally lost asking questions and are amazed at how their lawyer messed them up.

Proceed with caution if you think you must have a lawyer and don't take the first one even if his web site is full of impressive content is my advice. Ask some questions you already know the answers to and watch them squirm.

I'm not referring to the guides. But I have seen several examples in the forums that have made me cringe and think "I hope someone doesn't really follow that advice." (I've also seen some very sarcastic posts that could easily be misinterpreted as being advice.) Sometimes things in any area of law, particularly when dealing with a government agency, can be particularly fact specific.

Your experience is exactly why I think people need to be careful about which lawyer they hire if they use one. I interviewed several attorneys before using one that a friend had good results with. As a lawyer myself, I also think clients sometimes have unreasonable expectations of how much contact their lawyer should have. For example, we went 6 months between our NOA1 and NOA2 and there wasn't really much for my lawyer to say in that time period. When I had questions about stuff, she answered them. Collective knowledge is great, but a good immigration lawyer (particularly an AILA member) has access to far more collective knowledge than is on this board - they have message boards and listservs where the discussions are with other immigration attorneys who deal with just about every type of issue.

As I said, not everyone needs a lawyer. As a lawyer myself, I felt it was most expedient to spend the money and have an experienced lawyer handle our petition because there were a couple of things that I was uncertain about (and I wasn't comfortable relying on non-expert guidance). Plus, I know my own limitations and schedule and didn't want to have delays if, for example, I was too busy at work to deal with my own paperwork. My point was that if someone is already having issues or is not very organized about pulling together or remembering to send stuff, then a good lawyer is going to help them past that stuff. It is not just about the knowledge but about having someone to manage the process on your behalf.

I'll give an example - one part of my job is working with trademarks. Anyone can file a trademark application without a lawyer. But there is certain terminology that could cause hang-ups and delays, someone may not know how broadly they can describe the items/services on which the mark will be used, etc. Recently, when I filed a new trademark in exactly the same category as one I had previously filed, I ran into several months of delays going back and forth over a description I used - a description that previously had been accepted on another mark. An individual could certainly file alone, but would they know how to deal with those situations? Stuff like that is why attorneys are helpful, even if they are not necessary.

[Jawaree 717]

As the OPs said, I don't think you need a lawyer. What you could do is go over the documents together via Skype or Yahoo video chat. If you don't have eady acces to that, schedule a time to do so. Have a copy of the checklist in front of you and read them off, while he on the other side is putting them in the envelope. My husband is very meticulous with paper work, but I we prepared our package together via video chat, where I used my checklist to help him put the documents together and I watched him like sn hawk, then ticked.

My stomach would go into knots if we were to get RFEs, so I can imagine how you feel. Bringing in a lawyer at this time would be adding more hoops for you to jump through, while you still have to pay him. Watching my husband via video helped me to see what he was doing. Maybe it will help you too.

As the OPs said, I don't think you need a lawyer. What you could do is go over the documents together via Skype or Yahoo video chat. If you don't have eady acces to that, schedule a time to do so. Have a copy of the checklist in front of you and read them off, while he on the other side is putting them in the envelope. My husband is very meticulous with paper work, but I we prepared our package together via video chat, where I used my checklist to help him put the documents together and I watched him like sn hawk, then ticked.

My stomach would go into knots if we were to get RFEs, so I can imagine how you feel. Bringing in a lawyer at this time would be adding more hoops for you to jump through, while you still have to pay him. Watching my husband via video helped me to see what he was doing. Maybe it will help you too.

As the OPs said, I don't think you need a lawyer. What you could do is go over the documents together via Skype or Yahoo video chat. If you don't have eady acces to that, schedule a time to do so. Have a copy of the checklist in front of you and read them off, while he on the other side is putting them in the envelope. My husband is very meticulous with paper work, but I we prepared our package together via video chat, where I used my checklist to help him put the documents together and I watched him like sn hawk, then ticked.

My stomach would go into knots if we were to get RFEs, so I can imagine how you feel. Bringing in a lawyer at this time would be adding more hoops for you to jump through, while you still have to pay him. Watching my husband via video helped me to see what he was doing. Maybe it will help you too.

DITTO!

Set aside a day when you will both be relaxed and ready to do the above !

paper-work will be required from you to the atty. if its non complicated & one reads & understand, well its ok

Notarios you should never try to use they have messed up a lot of easy cases causing any probs.

The attys (SOME) gets the money and many of their clients ends up with RFEs & slow communications

Its up to an individual to go pro se IF they can handle ir

The forum is for testimonies of experiences, ideas and sharing some knowledge, VJers are not attys, so

ppl should do free consults and research themselves to be sure B4 sending any papers in to USCIS. This

forum answers question at times however nothing posted is legal gospel

[Cristina375 7]

With RFE's already on going, I would think getting a lwyer at this point is not worth it. All they would do is review what was sent. The good news is that so far, all the RFEs are about are missing docs, which do lengthen the process but provided documentaion is available, the process would continue.

What I'd suggest is go over the VJ "cover letter" sample in the IR1CR1 guides and use that as a check list of what was sent. At the very least you will find if something else was missing. You guys do have a duplicate of the package sent, don't you? To run the check list I mean.

Worst case scenario would be a rejected application, but presumably for lack of some document. A new filing would correct that, yet at several months delay..

No, we don't have a duplicate so there is really no way to tell what was sent or not...i did see that my husband still has the copy of my birth certificate...so I'm guessing that will be the next RFE

I have the cover letter he sent, which i wrote...after one I've seen here and its basically the money order, I130, copy of unexpired us passport (my husband), g-325 A, passport style photo (my husband) g-325 A (me) passport style photo ( me) and evidence of bonafide marriage.

Seems that it was actually MY miss, instead of my husbands...

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I'm not referring to the guides. But I have seen several examples in the forums that have made me cringe and think "I hope someone doesn't really follow that advice." (I've also seen some very sarcastic posts that could easily be misinterpreted as being advice.) Sometimes things in any area of law, particularly when dealing with a government agency, can be particularly fact specific.

Your experience is exactly why I think people need to be careful about which lawyer they hire if they use one. I interviewed several attorneys before using one that a friend had good results with. As a lawyer myself, I also think clients sometimes have unreasonable expectations of how much contact their lawyer should have. For example, we went 6 months between our NOA1 and NOA2 and there wasn't really much for my lawyer to say in that time period. When I had questions about stuff, she answered them. Collective knowledge is great, but a good immigration lawyer (particularly an AILA member) has access to far more collective knowledge than is on this board - they have message boards and listservs where the discussions are with other immigration attorneys who deal with just about every type of issue.

As I said, not everyone needs a lawyer. As a lawyer myself, I felt it was most expedient to spend the money and have an experienced lawyer handle our petition because there were a couple of things that I was uncertain about (and I wasn't comfortable relying on non-expert guidance). Plus, I know my own limitations and schedule and didn't want to have delays if, for example, I was too busy at work to deal with my own paperwork. My point was that if someone is already having issues or is not very organized about pulling together or remembering to send stuff, then a good lawyer is going to help them past that stuff. It is not just about the knowledge but about having someone to manage the process on your behalf.

I'll give an example - one part of my job is working with trademarks. Anyone can file a trademark application without a lawyer. But there is certain terminology that could cause hang-ups and delays, someone may not know how broadly they can describe the items/services on which the mark will be used, etc. Recently, when I filed a new trademark in exactly the same category as one I had previously filed, I ran into several months of delays going back and forth over a description I used - a description that previously had been accepted on another mark. An individual could certainly file alone, but would they know how to deal with those situations? Stuff like that is why attorneys are helpful, even if they are not necessary.

Thanks for clarifying.

I agree that lingo is important to even be taken serious in a rebuttal for example.

I read some internal memos and field manual to speak on their terms and used their lingo as well.

So yes I agree with the trademark comparison and the lingo being important, especially for serious hiccups.

By communication frequency I was was referring to lawyers who don't inform their clients about RFE's and NOA2's forever and a day

and who go on vacation at crucial times without any notice or competent office staff to complete a dead line for something of vital

importance, not understanding frontloading at high risk embassies etc....as well as big egos who refuse to discuss the process

more than once and who poo poo your concerns about something.

In a nutshell I advise people to really take time to research any lawyer, there are some excellent ones out there if you

can find them.

Well said and I understand where you are coming from.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

OP, here is a check list in case you have not seen it yet

http://www.visajourney.com/content/i130guide1

Here is a monthly thread for NVC and a good place to hang out in, loaded with links and advice to follow.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/488577-nvc-filers-april-2014/

Just find the new monthly thread from whatever month your case will be at NVC.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

No, we don't have a duplicate so there is really no way to tell what was sent or not...i did see that my husband still has the copy of my birth certificate...so I'm guessing that will be the next RFE

I have the cover letter he sent, which i wrote...after one I've seen here and its basically the money order, I130, copy of unexpired us passport (my husband), g-325 A, passport style photo (my husband) g-325 A (me) passport style photo ( me) and evidence of bonafide marriage.

Seems that it was actually MY miss, instead of my husbands...

Sorry to hear that.

All you can do is just wait for RFEs if any other is coming. Eventually, your petition will be completed and approved. In the menatime, look at it as additional time you both have to prepare for your move and arrival. Perhpas best is to put together a list of the things to do so nothing is missed, we did: the list was 3 pages long but it cover preparation for both of us prior to the move, to the first 3 months after arrival.

[pushbrk 12,824]

The list of reasons people hire professionals is longer than my arm. The one major reasons that is most often over-looked in these discussions is that many people simply either have other time priorities than to do the necessary study to learn how to do it themselves though they would be fully capable of doing so.

I have a great vehicle I want to keep and use long term. I'll be taking it in tomorrow to have the transmission rebuilt by a professional transmission shop I was referred to by my regular mechanic. I'm perfectly capable of doing the work myself but since I've never done it before and have a busy life doing things that for my own reasons are more important to me, I choose not to bother to devote my time to learning how and then doing it myself.

The second big mistake many members make in these discussions is to presume that because a person was able to use the internet to find visajourney.com and ask a question, they are both capable and dedicated enough to do this themselves. Many making that mistake, don't even really know yet whether THEY are capable of completing the process without their own mistakes causing delays or worse, because THEY don't even have their own petitions approved yet, much less their loved one in the USA with them.

Now, if anybody has a sure fire method of repelling copperheads from the yard, so my dog doesn't get bitten again, I'm into doing that myself.

[Boggy1974 124]

The list of reasons people hire professionals is longer than my arm. The one major reasons that is most often over-looked in these discussions is that many people simply either have other time priorities than to do the necessary study to learn how to do it themselves though they would be fully capable of doing so.

I have a great vehicle I want to keep and use long term. I'll be taking it in tomorrow to have the transmission rebuilt by a professional transmission shop I was referred to by my regular mechanic. I'm perfectly capable of doing the work myself but since I've never done it before and have a busy life doing things that for my own reasons are more important to me, I choose not to bother to devote my time to learning how and then doing it myself.

The second big mistake many members make in these discussions is to presume that because a person was able to use the internet to find visajourney.com and ask a question, they are both capable and dedicated enough to do this themselves. Many making that mistake, don't even really know yet whether THEY are capable of completing the process without their own mistakes causing delays or worse, because THEY don't even have their own petitions approved yet, much less their loved one in the USA with them.

Now, if anybody has a sure fire method of repelling copperheads from the yard, so my dog doesn't get bitten again, I'm into doing that myself.

Great response! And very philosophical take on the OP's question.

Now, with the copperheads, I would rather get a professional exterminator because of my phobia of snakes. Hope op consider the *snakes* in this process.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Boggy1974

[NikLR 13,227]

No, we don't have a duplicate so there is really no way to tell what was sent or not...i did see that my husband still has the copy of my birth certificate...so I'm guessing that will be the next RFE

I have the cover letter he sent, which i wrote...after one I've seen here and its basically the money order, I130, copy of unexpired us passport (my husband), g-325 A, passport style photo (my husband) g-325 A (me) passport style photo ( me) and evidence of bonafide marriage.

Seems that it was actually MY miss, instead of my husbands...

Your birth certificate isn't required at the USCIS, only evidence of the USC being a USC.

[Cristina375 7]

Thank you all for the advice! My husband feels that getting an attorney at this stage would be kind of pointless...he did talk to one on the phone just to humour me but i guess we won't be taking that path...