Divorce question

[Caryh 5,206]

Article 26 requires that the divorce should be obtained abroad by the foreign spouse, not by the Filipino spouse. Some might say that this is unfair, but bear in mind that this is a great improvement from the law prior to Article 26 which did not recognize all divorces. That resulted to a lot of injustices to Filipinos because while their foreign spouses who divorced them could remarry, the Filipino spouses remained imprisoned to their defunct marriage. It was double jeopardy, in a way, because they had been abandoned yet remained imprisoned. So, paragraph 2 of Article 26 was added to the Family Code as an “equalizer”, so that these Filipino spouses can have the same freedom as their foreign ex-spouses.

If you are a Philippine national any divorce you file for in another country would not be given recognition by the Philippines. However, if the non citizen, in this case your American husband filed, then it would be recognized as valid in the Philippines.

At least one of you would have to meet your state's residency requirement in order to file.

So,Hank... (Yes the Philippine citizen can petition divorce in the USA doesn't need to be a green card holder or U.S. citizen BUT! the divorce in the USA will only be recognized in the Philippines if petitioned by the FOREIGNER.......

Caryh,...i have a doubt on this paragraph of yours...correct me if I'am wrong...:USA requires its residents to keep track of if they're married and to dissolve the marriage before getting married again.I have known lots of US citizen married in the Philippines but ending up getting married again in the US without doing what you call a US track there resident thingy if there married and to dissolved it before getting married again issue.

I may have not explain it in a right way of English or may have been wrong in some parts but i guess i have some point.

This statement you made is exactly correct "USA requires its residents to keep track of if they're married and to dissolve the marriage before getting married again."

Yes in the USA, people are expected to keep track of (remember) they're married, and dissolve their marriage before they can marry again. Marriage is controlled by states in the USA, not the central government. So there is no place to look up if someone is married in the USA, you'd have to check with every county in the country. which is equal to checking with every barangay in your country. Essentially an impossible task. If someone fails to get divorced before remarrying, they can be charged with bigamy. But there is no central location to look up if someone was married or divorced. We need to keep our own records of that information.

Each state (equal to a province or region) has its own laws controlling marriage and divorce. So the rules to marry or divorce are different all over the country, although they are somewhat similar because of customs.

Residency is where you make your home. Generally you have to live somewhere for a certain period before you're considered to have gained residency. Most states require you've been a resident for a certain time period, typically 6 months to a year, before you can file for divorce in that state.

If someone were to marry in the Philippines, then come to the USA and marry someone else, they have broken the bigamy law. They can be charged and imprisoned for doing so. But someone would need to find and show proof they're married twice without divorcing before that person would have charges brought against them. The person who usually brings this up is when the two spouses find out they're both married to the same person.

The USA recognises all marriages that are performed in other countries, and divorces or annulments. An exception to this is some states, do not recognise gay marriage or polygamous marriages (where such things are legal). All someone needs is their marriage certificate or divorce decree to prove that status.

[Speech33 0]

I have fully understand what you say,Caryh...we have the same situation with Mike's gf .My former husband is a US citizen from Cali.We get married at Phil and went along for a little while.He went back to Cali and after some period of time I cannot contact him anymore nor know his whereabouts.I went to an attorney for such matter and told me if i undergo a annulment it will cause me a fortune with all those publications and some other things they have to send in Cali where I know he last reside,with those bunch of blah blah..Lucky for me Facebook is on the go then,i happened to see him on facebook page ,he is already married again .Well,a poor Filipina like me could never really stand a chance of a fair fight,i have no mobility/money to start up any process that could at least give me justice.I end up living married without a husband for 3 years until a chance of hope/luck came.I finally did the annulment.Costly but that is the only way out.

See the issue is when i happen to know that my former husband in the US is married again,how can i complain,i cannot even afford a lawyer nor can't even can afford an airline ticket.I live way far from the capital of the Phil. which is Manila.

That is why I'am asking Mike the one who post his problem,how can he be so sure that the husband of his gf would waste so much time and also money just to divorce her in US?Is she sure she is still living in Florida?Do they still talk to each other?Did she has any contacts with him?

He might be married again now,that she just don't know.

It would be so good to be true if her current husband will help her and exert so much effort to divorce her up.

That is why I'am telling Mike that do the annulment,I also comment on his past post about that his gf undergo Presumptive of death route on his other post,I told Mike some things to do with that court order his gf has on hand.

Forgive me if i might say things that could hurt someone.

[Caryh 5,206]

Your former husband may have gotten a divorce in the USA without you even being aware of it. There are ways of getting divorced in the USA when you don't know where your spouse is. If you knew the county he got divorced in, you could have gotten a copy of the divorce decree and took the easier method. If he never bothered to terminate his marriage, you could get him into big trouble in the USA by bringing the marriage certificate he had signed there, which shows he married without divorcing.

Many states in the USA have an easy way to divorce when both parties are in agreement. They file together, one acting as the plaintiff and the other as the defendant, but both sign the divorce agreement. If there are no minor children, these divorces can be given out in less than 30 days without ever going into a court. I've known people who have filed this way and been rather surprised to get a divorce decree in the mail in less than a week. If they can get a divorce this way and then get it recognised in the Philippines, it will be much simpler, faster and cheaper than attempting an annulment there. They would be foolish not to try this easier way. It may even be found they're already divorced, and she just needs a copy of the papers.

I have fully understand what you say,Caryh...we have the same situation with Mike's gf .My former husband is a US citizen from Cali.We get married at Phil and went along for a little while.He went back to Cali and after some period of time I cannot contact him anymore nor know his whereabouts.I went to an attorney for such matter and told me if i undergo a annulment it will cause me a fortune with all those publications and some other things they have to send in Cali where I know he last reside,with those bunch of blah blah..Lucky for me Facebook is on the go then,i happened to see him on facebook page ,he is already married again .Well,a poor Filipina like me could never really stand a chance of a fair fight,i have no mobility/money to start up any process that could at least give me justice.I end up living married without a husband for 3 years until a chance of hope/luck came.I finally did the annulment.Costly but that is the only way out.

See the issue is when i happen to know that my former husband in the US is married again,how can i complain,i cannot even afford a lawyer nor can't even can afford an airline ticket.I live way far from the capital of the Phil. which is Manila.

That is why I'am asking Mike the one who post his problem,how can he be so sure that the husband of his gf would waste so much time and also money just to divorce her in US?Is she sure she is still living in Florida?Do they still talk to each other?Did she has any contacts with him?

He might be married again now,that she just don't know.

It would be so good to be true if her current husband will help her and exert so much effort to divorce her up.

That is why I'am telling Mike that do the annulment,I also comment on his past post about that his gf undergo Presumptive of death route on his other post,I told Mike some things to do with that court order his gf has on hand.

Forgive me if i might say things that could hurt someone.

[Skeeter 1]

Your former husband may have gotten a divorce in the USA without you even being aware of it. There are ways of getting divorced in the USA when you don't know where your spouse is. If you knew the county he got divorced in, you could have gotten a copy of the divorce decree and took the easier method. If he never bothered to terminate his marriage, you could get him into big trouble in the USA by bringing the marriage certificate he had signed there, which shows he married without divorcing.

Many states in the USA have an easy way to divorce when both parties are in agreement. They file together, one acting as the plaintiff and the other as the defendant, but both sign the divorce agreement. If there are no minor children, these divorces can be given out in less than 30 days without ever going into a court. I've known people who have filed this way and been rather surprised to get a divorce decree in the mail in less than a week. If they can get a divorce this way and then get it recognised in the Philippines, it will be much simpler, faster and cheaper than attempting an annulment there. They would be foolish not to try this easier way. It may even be found they're already divorced, and she just needs a copy of the papers.

Wow, you guys have put so much time and effort into my problem I can't begin to thank you enough and you've fed me a lot of good information.

So, to answer a couple of things that "speech" wondered about: In the last couple of days I have been attempting a search on this man. I think I have located his whereabouts in Tampa or that area. In fact I'm fairly positive. My fiance says that if I can locate him in one way or another, either email, facebook or phone number, that she will attempt to make contact with him and basically plead to him for the divorce in Florida. If he agrees then problem solved. If he doesn't then we are back in the small boat ini the middle of the ocean with no sight of land anywhere. So, for the moment I have two phone numbers for her to try.

Oh, further, NO, they have had NO contact over the years. There's been no contact for at least 4 years. So, we will see now what happens with her attempted contact to him. Because the two of you have been so diligent in helping me with your information, no matter good or bad, I will keep you up to date with the occurrances or lack of them as they happen.

Maybe to stir our pot just a little more, but not sure it matters at this point, is the fact that she has filed and been granted a "presumptive death". And we/she has the paperwork necessary which states that she can remarry legally. The bad news is that the consulate at the visa interview wants a death certificate. They are no longer accepting "presumptive death" in order to obtain a visa. So, you surely can't present a death certificate on someone who isn't dead and this is why we are attempting the route of contacting him and see if he has an ounce of decency to do the right thing. I've already spent so much money by now just to get us to this point, I would even be willing to repay him for his effort in obtaining this divorce. I.E., I would pay him back so that he doesn't even incur a loss. So, there ya have it in a rather large nutshell. This is why, in the beginning of my initial post, I didn't put the story in there because I'm sure I would have made the waters very muddy before anyone could get a good handle on what the problem actually was.

Anyway, the very, very latest update here is that I have tracked this person's name to a page on mylife.com. I was able to download this pic and will show it to her tonight to see if it is him or not. This site charges for membership in order to find out any details about anyone else who is a member so before I join it to get this info I want to check with her to be sure if it's him or not.

Mike

[Skeeter 1]

Your former husband may have gotten a divorce in the USA without you even being aware of it. There are ways of getting divorced in the USA when you don't know where your spouse is. If you knew the county he got divorced in, you could have gotten a copy of the divorce decree and took the easier method. If he never bothered to terminate his marriage, you could get him into big trouble in the USA by bringing the marriage certificate he had signed there, which shows he married without divorcing.

Many states in the USA have an easy way to divorce when both parties are in agreement. They file together, one acting as the plaintiff and the other as the defendant, but both sign the divorce agreement. If there are no minor children, these divorces can be given out in less than 30 days without ever going into a court. I've known people who have filed this way and been rather surprised to get a divorce decree in the mail in less than a week. If they can get a divorce this way and then get it recognised in the Philippines, it will be much simpler, faster and cheaper than attempting an annulment there. They would be foolish not to try this easier way. It may even be found they're already divorced, and she just needs a copy of the papers.

Speech33, would you mind telling me, in your particular case, how much time it took for you to obtain your annullment there in the PI and how much did it cost you?

I also kind of wonder if it might be able to go faster than the usual based on the fact that presumptive death was already declared and filed at the NSO. But first we will try the contact route and see how that goes.

Mike

[Speech33 0]

It cost my husband now 120,000pesos all in all...Actually the lawyer is a brother of his family friend here in the US...The lawyer that he hire do all the job for me.They even do the submission of the Final Court order to the local Registrar's office on my hometown where the my marriage took place and the local Registrar's office in my hometown submit that to NSO Manila for my Certificate of Marriage annotation.Normal process for that annotation would take months because they have to check it first if its really true.By the way the final court order for annulment is not yet the last stage Mike,you must really make it sure to make her CEMAR annotated,because consul do not accept Final Court order documents really,trust me with this.

They just call me up then that they have the my CEMAR with annotation.And i really get my own a NSO a copy of my CEMAR with annotation for the sake of just curiosity if its really the same with what i receive with my attorney,and it is ...

On your case it would be more faster,since you already have the papers of that Presumptive of death,just for additional info,find an attorney that specialized really about annulment/Family Code.

I guess if Iam not mistaken you are given one year by the consul to provide evidence about the termination of his prior marriage right?Read the 221g letter she has been given.I know she is given one year.

Your presumptive of death may stand a chance Mike...did you read my other post on your other post what to do with it?Have you tried the route i told you?

Hope it helps...

[Caryh 5,206]

You may be missing a path here Skeeter. The embassy does not even accept the marriage certificates in the Philippines as ultimate proof a couple is married. They require the CEMAR from the NSO to prove a couple is married. Even with an annulment, the court decree does no good, until its been authenticated and the CEMAR annotated to show the marriage was terminated. It may be the decree of assumptive death just needs forwarding to the NSO, where it can be authenticated and the CEMAR annotated to show the marriage is now terminated. It is my understanding, the courts do not do this, its up to the recipient of the court decree to get it through the process at the NSO. No one can prove they are single or married in the Philippines, without either a CENOMAR or CEMAR from the NSO. I'm just wondering if you're making the same assumption of the Philippines system working the same as the USA system, when they are very different in this regard. You may have heard, they will not accept the court decree, and failed to ask the question, what about the annotated CEMAR from the NSO, simply because you didn't know there was such a thing.

Wow, you guys have put so much time and effort into my problem I can't begin to thank you enough and you've fed me a lot of good information.

So, to answer a couple of things that "speech" wondered about: In the last couple of days I have been attempting a search on this man. I think I have located his whereabouts in Tampa or that area. In fact I'm fairly positive. My fiance says that if I can locate him in one way or another, either email, facebook or phone number, that she will attempt to make contact with him and basically plead to him for the divorce in Florida. If he agrees then problem solved. If he doesn't then we are back in the small boat ini the middle of the ocean with no sight of land anywhere. So, for the moment I have two phone numbers for her to try.

Oh, further, NO, they have had NO contact over the years. There's been no contact for at least 4 years. So, we will see now what happens with her attempted contact to him. Because the two of you have been so diligent in helping me with your information, no matter good or bad, I will keep you up to date with the occurrances or lack of them as they happen.

Maybe to stir our pot just a little more, but not sure it matters at this point, is the fact that she has filed and been granted a "presumptive death". And we/she has the paperwork necessary which states that she can remarry legally. The bad news is that the consulate at the visa interview wants a death certificate. They are no longer accepting "presumptive death" in order to obtain a visa. So, you surely can't present a death certificate on someone who isn't dead and this is why we are attempting the route of contacting him and see if he has an ounce of decency to do the right thing. I've already spent so much money by now just to get us to this point, I would even be willing to repay him for his effort in obtaining this divorce. I.E., I would pay him back so that he doesn't even incur a loss. So, there ya have it in a rather large nutshell. This is why, in the beginning of my initial post, I didn't put the story in there because I'm sure I would have made the waters very muddy before anyone could get a good handle on what the problem actually was.

Anyway, the very, very latest update here is that I have tracked this person's name to a page on mylife.com. I was able to download this pic and will show it to her tonight to see if it is him or not. This site charges for membership in order to find out any details about anyone else who is a member so before I join it to get this info I want to check with her to be sure if it's him or not.

Mike

[Caryh 5,206]

LOL funny you're telling him pretty much what I was telling him. Only I'm thinking that final step of getting the assumptive death decree has never gone to the NSO to generate the annotated CEMAR.

It cost my husband now 120,000pesos all in all...Actually the lawyer is a brother of his family friend here in the US...The lawyer that he hire do all the job for me.They even do the submission of the Final Court order to the local Registrar's office on my hometown where the my marriage took place and the local Registrar's office in my hometown submit that to NSO Manila for my Certificate of Marriage annotation.Normal process for that annotation would take months because they have to check it first if its really true.By the way the final court order for annulment is not yet the last stage Mike,you must really make it sure to make her CEMAR annotated,because consul do not accept Final Court order documents really,trust me with this.

They just call me up then that they have the my CEMAR with annotation.And i really get my own a NSO a copy of my CEMAR with annotation for the sake of just curiosity if its really the same with what i receive with my attorney,and it is ...

On your case it would be more faster,since you already have the papers of that Presumptive of death,just for additional info,find an attorney that specialized really about annulment/Family Code.

I guess if Iam not mistaken you are given one year by the consul to provide evidence about the termination of his prior marriage right?Read the 221g letter she has been given.I know she is given one year.

Your presumptive of death may stand a chance Mike...did you read my other post on your other post what to do with it?Have you tried the route i told you?

Hope it helps...

[Skeeter 1]

You may be missing a path here Skeeter. The embassy does not even accept the marriage certificates in the Philippines as ultimate proof a couple is married. They require the CEMAR from the NSO to prove a couple is married. Even with an annulment, the court decree does no good, until its been authenticated and the CEMAR annotated to show the marriage was terminated. It may be the decree of assumptive death just needs forwarding to the NSO, where it can be authenticated and the CEMAR annotated to show the marriage is now terminated. It is my understanding, the courts do not do this, its up to the recipient of the court decree to get it through the process at the NSO. No one can prove they are single or married in the Philippines, without either a CENOMAR or CEMAR from the NSO. I'm just wondering if you're making the same assumption of the Philippines system working the same as the USA system, when they are very different in this regard. You may have heard, they will not accept the court decree, and failed to ask the question, what about the annotated CEMAR from the NSO, simply because you didn't know there was such a thing.

Thanks Caryh. Yes, we do have the document from the NSO. It is an actual copy of the marriage certificate between the two of them and running up and down the right side of that document and makes the long statement about it being deemed by the judge and the date and the filing and this and that. If you know the form then you know what I mean about that. But yes, it didn't seem to matter to them about that paper either.

[Skeeter 1]

It cost my husband now 120,000pesos all in all...Actually the lawyer is a brother of his family friend here in the US...The lawyer that he hire do all the job for me.They even do the submission of the Final Court order to the local Registrar's office on my hometown where the my marriage took place and the local Registrar's office in my hometown submit that to NSO Manila for my Certificate of Marriage annotation.Normal process for that annotation would take months because they have to check it first if its really true.By the way the final court order for annulment is not yet the last stage Mike,you must really make it sure to make her CEMAR annotated,because consul do not accept Final Court order documents really,trust me with this.

They just call me up then that they have the my CEMAR with annotation.And i really get my own a NSO a copy of my CEMAR with annotation for the sake of just curiosity if its really the same with what i receive with my attorney,and it is ...

On your case it would be more faster,since you already have the papers of that Presumptive of death,just for additional info,find an attorney that specialized really about annulment/Family Code.

I guess if Iam not mistaken you are given one year by the consul to provide evidence about the termination of his prior marriage right?Read the 221g letter she has been given.I know she is given one year.

Your presumptive of death may stand a chance Mike...did you read my other post on your other post what to do with it?Have you tried the route i told you?

Hope it helps...

Yes Speech33. I did read all the posts so far. Here is exactly what it says on the right side of the copy of the marriage certificate that went through the NSO: "Pursuant to the decision dated July 15,2013 rendered by Judge Maximo A. Perez of the regional trial court, 7th judicial region, branch 26, Argao, Cebu, under SP. Proc. NO. A-1180, The absentee, Scott (last name) is hereby declared presumptively dead." and signed by the chief of document management division.

[icebryker 21]

Long read but informative. I hope you get it all sorted out Skeeter (your username reminds me of Falling Skies - the skitters). All the things we do for love! Hang in there, I hope you find Scott. If you are lucky, he might say he already divorced your fiance (his ex-wife). If he hasn't divorced her yet, and he is married, then he can be charged of bigamy. If he hasn't divorced her and he is not married, then your fiance should talk to him about the divorce and add in what you said about you paying the expenses. I imagine this situation of yours is an added stress to the already stressful process of getting the K1 visa. Good luck. (I'll follow this post)

[Skeeter 1]

Long read but informative. I hope you get it all sorted out Skeeter (your username reminds me of Falling Skies - the skitters). All the things we do for love! Hang in there, I hope you find Scott. If you are lucky, he might say he already divorced your fiance (his ex-wife). If he hasn't divorced her yet, and he is married, then he can be charged of bigamy. If he hasn't divorced her and he is not married, then your fiance should talk to him about the divorce and add in what you said about you paying the expenses. I imagine this situation of yours is an added stress to the already stressful process of getting the K1 visa. Good luck. (I'll follow this post)

icebryker, you're sure right about the added stress part. Stomache stays in knots, ya know? I'm glad you've taken an interest in my dilemma and hopefully some others might learn something from it as well.

The latest I have at the moment is that I spoke with my fiance tonight and gave her two phone numbers that I tracked down that are/or were his. Verizon verifies at this moment that they are both working numbers but of course they won't hand out anything else about it. But that much was ok. I actually did find this guy. I tracked him down on a mylife.com page. It has a picture of him on the opening page but to go further would take at least a 3 month subscription. Anyway, I was lucky enough that the page allowed me to right click and "save as". Then tonight, I showed her the picture and the response was, OMG, that's him. Well, ok then. A little closer now. She's going to wait until tomorrow to try the contact because they're busy today burying grandma. Well, poor grandma, made it to 86. But she's gonna try the phone numbers tomorrow and if he'll talk to her then she's gonna try the woe is me routine and let's do the right thing and yada yada and we'll see how that goes. If he doesn't agree to divorce then I told her to ask him if he would then sign annullment papers and we can take the longer route there but at least in the right direction. I'll keep posting here if anyone wants to continue reading. This may turn into a good novella.

I appreciate all the concern from everyone here. I really do. At least that much feels good.

Mike

[Caryh 5,206]

icebryker, you're sure right about the added stress part. Stomache stays in knots, ya know? I'm glad you've taken an interest in my dilemma and hopefully some others might learn something from it as well.

The latest I have at the moment is that I spoke with my fiance tonight and gave her two phone numbers that I tracked down that are/or were his. Verizon verifies at this moment that they are both working numbers but of course they won't hand out anything else about it. But that much was ok. I actually did find this guy. I tracked him down on a mylife.com page. It has a picture of him on the opening page but to go further would take at least a 3 month subscription. Anyway, I was lucky enough that the page allowed me to right click and "save as". Then tonight, I showed her the picture and the response was, OMG, that's him. Well, ok then. A little closer now. She's going to wait until tomorrow to try the contact because they're busy today burying grandma. Well, poor grandma, made it to 86. But she's gonna try the phone numbers tomorrow and if he'll talk to her then she's gonna try the woe is me routine and let's do the right thing and yada yada and we'll see how that goes. If he doesn't agree to divorce then I told her to ask him if he would then sign annullment papers and we can take the longer route there but at least in the right direction. I'll keep posting here if anyone wants to continue reading. This may turn into a good novella.

I appreciate all the concern from everyone here. I really do. At least that much feels good.

Mike

Where did you run into the annotated CEMAR not being acceptably to the embassy now information? I know this used to work just fine, even knew some people who got K-1's with that document. And yes, it certainly sounds like you have the correct document, and by the laws of the Philippines, she is free to marry. Technically that should meet the standards required by the embassy, as even in the USA presumptive death decree frees someone to marry also. To speed things up, you could marry her there and go the CR-1 route to. Then the CEMAR would show her married to you.

[Speech33 0]

Looks like you have the right document Mike...Before lots of K1 used that route to,to free from their previous marriage.Caryh is right ,if you cannot made it to K1 then get married to Phil and go the route of CR-1.

Philippines is known with fraud and anomalies.Sad to say that your wife is telling the truth and CO is putting her to a magnifying glass now.

Your wife is just a victim while others who used that route conveniently exit/pass and was able to go to US....

[Caryh 5,206]

Mike, I just wanted to ask, have you gotten a 221G for proof she's not married? Where are you in the process?

The Annotated CEMAR clearly shows she is legally able to marry in the Philippines. I've done a bit of searching, and can find no references saying the Embassy no longer accepts that as proof. The NSO is the highest legal authority in the Philippines on if someone is able to get married. I'm seriously wondering if you've got some bad information somewhere, and you're chasing after something that is not needed. There are tons of people that give advice on immigration that do not know what they're talking about, yet speak their opinion as if its fact.