Should we file a class action lawsuit like Kaplan vs. Chertoff?

[dwheels76 5,468]

There are a lot of ways the system can be improved.

First and foremost, having your petition disappear behind an opaque wall and being told "Don't call us; we'll call you" is not the American way. That is the North Korean way. The American way is to have the entire process be as transparent as glass to the petitioner. People don't mind waiting if they can see the goal posts.

I so agree that this process all the way to POE and beyond needs to be totally transparent because it would surly flush out more fake relationships (both sides) fraudsters and the like.

There is too much "The CO denied me because I am cute (remember that thread"). And you know that is totally bull.

If the petitioner could get the 411 on what was asked what was answered it would be nice. Like "when did you last sleep with you ex" beneficiary: "Last night" DENIED.

But they come back and say we were denied for not having evidence of a Bonafide relationship. Like get out of here.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Completely bananas. First of all, the plaintiffs in Kaplan were non-USCs who were already in the US, awaiting adjudication of their I-485 or their naturalisation. The OP's premise that a Kaplan-style class action would be applicable for the adjudication of I-130s/I-129Fs/pushing documents through the NVC/getting an interview date is inherently flawed. The Kaplan plaintiffs already had legal presence in the US; the putative plaintiffs in the OP's case do not.

Second, as (nearly) everyone has mentioned, having one's non-USC spouse join you in the US is a privilege, not a right. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's fair, or that this process is too long. It is what it is, and the bulk of VJ people who have "graduated" so to speak will tell you that the months (and years) of sadness they spent waiting to be reunited have faded in the face of the reality of being together. I've been on here for almost seven years and believe me, things are MUCH quicker than they used to be. Does it suck? Sure! But believe it or not things have improved and are improving. There have been weird periods of time when things accelerated, and when things slowed down beyond the norm. But it has improved.

Why? They increased the filing fees. More fees, more adjudicators. Here's a proposition -- how about everyone paying more money in increased fees so everyone can speed up? This isn't a taxpayer-funded enterprise. It is funded by the fees of those seeking visas and status. You get what you pay for.

[arnav 10]

Nice debate.

"NO ONE ABOVE THE LAW" . Read all 100 question again.

[EzyEby 5]

Considering the emotional torture USCIS is making us go through, I am in support of whatever needs to be done to get there attention.

[2018JourneyDone 77]

Completely bananas. First of all, the plaintiffs in Kaplan were non-USCs who were already in the US, awaiting adjudication of their I-485 or their naturalisation. The OP's premise that a Kaplan-style class action would be applicable for the adjudication of I-130s/I-129Fs/pushing documents through the NVC/getting an interview date is inherently flawed. The Kaplan plaintiffs already had legal presence in the US; the putative plaintiffs in the OP's case do not.

Second, as (nearly) everyone has mentioned, having one's non-USC spouse join you in the US is a privilege, not a right. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's fair, or that this process is too long. It is what it is, and the bulk of VJ people who have "graduated" so to speak will tell you that the months (and years) of sadness they spent waiting to be reunited have faded in the face of the reality of being together. I've been on here for almost seven years and believe me, things are MUCH quicker than they used to be. Does it suck? Sure! But believe it or not things have improved and are improving. There have been weird periods of time when things accelerated, and when things slowed down beyond the norm. But it has improved.

Why? They increased the filing fees. More fees, more adjudicators. Here's a proposition -- how about everyone paying more money in increased fees so everyone can speed up? This isn't a taxpayer-funded enterprise. It is funded by the fees of those seeking visas and status. You get what you pay for.

Great to know! Thanks for further explaining what the OP was referring to regarding the cases. And excellent point about the filing fees (how could I possibly forget THOSE!?!) Not taxpayer funded, but yes, funded by the fees. DUH!! A point I completely flubbed in my earlier reply ... ever learning ;-)

[Kaylara 814]

I think those of us who have been waiting for (not me) at least 8 months deserve better then federal lying and whitewashing. His sentiment comes from seeing the endless wait the american citizens are having to go through while illegals, who, in any other country would never see a chance at gaining passports get priority processing.

Nice to see everybody complain about the one person trying to fix the problem.

I guess you guys believe the bullcrap about May 2014 showing a 5 month processing time as well.

He's not the one person trying to fix the problem. Plenty of us have been working on it. But that doesn't mean that we're going to join him if it doesn't seem to make sense to us.

[aditya3245 113]

Plenty of us have been working on it. But that doesn't mean that we're going to join him if it doesn't seem to make sense to us.

And so.. dont then.

What is up with the constant telling-off of others trying to think outside the box ?

Edited December 14, 2013 by aditya3245

[Cathi 5,744]

Your response is full of patronizing comments that stem from the having some sort of unquestionable wisdom about the system and the process that others don't. You're not an attorney - please don't tell me how much you've paid in taxes.

I wasn't comparing the taxes I paid to yours - I was comparing my law abiding conduct to that of someone who jumped a fence or got on a boat - broke the law, probably faked documents and passports - and wants to devalue american citizenship with the support of far-leftist politicians.

The only difference between a LPR and a USC, that is relevant to this discussion - is none.

As a matter of fact, the ineptitude of this administration is to the point that LPRs can get their cases through faster - as of today.

You tell me how that happened without institutional faults and inept bureaucrats and a chief executive who thinks he can grant benefits by fiat. The profund absurdity of it all should be obvious. I should know, I am from India - we have to deal with this 24/7 where we are born. Endemic corruption and seemless red tape.

I lived in america since I was 16.

A grand total of 13 continuous years until recently ever since I became a freethinking adult.

Please do not go about chastizing those whom you know nothing of.

Dude you need to chill. you are the one who was all over aaron, you are the one who decided to go on the attack. You deserved the response you got

[Ryan H 3,812]

***Bickering posts between members end here; any additional post disregarding this one will result in a thread ban.***

**One post violating the TOS has been removed.**

Edited December 14, 2013 by Ryan H

[Cathi 5,744]

Founding fathers of this country ?

Boston tea party ?

No Taxation without representation ?

Guam, DC, Puerto Rico ?

Really ?

I am not making political statements and I don't think anybody's political affiliation matters - but if you didn't pay taxes here, you made money from the US and utilized the infrastructure - maybe I don't belong at the back of the line, while you are getting work permits.

Again, by "you", i don't mean YOU.

I am an immigrant, you are not mate

at one point every single person in this country had ancestors who were immigrants, and our significant others ARE immigrants. Your point just doesn't make any sense. We all feel for people who have waited months BEYOND the projected processing times, but as aaron said, nothing in immigration is a guarantee. No one ever said that anyone was ever going to get through X amount of months, USCIS can only project based on the amount of cases being processed. The OP also started another thread saying that it is the governments fault that he cannot consummate his marriage as much as he would like, that's just grasping at straws. No one in the government EVER told him that he can't travel to see his wife to spend as much time with her as he wants.

The so called "illegals" who people on this site accuse of being given priority over everyone else are children who were brought here illegally by their parents when they were under the age of 18 , children who didn't have a choice in the matter. The Dream Act is giving these children the opportunity to become legal in a country that for many of them, is the only country they have ever known. It isn't like they are being handed a green card and being sent on their way. They still have a process to go through, and it isn't an easy for them either. They are people with hopes and aspirations and feelings like you and I, they are no less important than us, in my opinion.

We all understood when marrying someone from another country that the process of bringing them here was going to take time. Some have had to wait longer than others, it is what it is. My husband is from a so called "T" country and was given AP after his interview. This is something we both knew was a possibility, it meant an extra 10 weeks of waiting for us. We were lucky it was only 10 weeks, there are many more who have waited much longer. Never for one moment did I ever think of coming here and complaining about the black hole of AP, we understood it was part of the process, a matter of national security, and what right would I have to complain after seeing the years people from Pakistan are having to wait. Given the state of terrorism in the world who am I to complain about the government wanting to protect it's citizens?

[aditya3245 113]

I think most of your argument has holes in it.

No disrespect ma'am.

CIS is a government agency. Visas are not birthrights. I get it.

We are not discussing efficiency. This is an argument over caseloads.

Everything that the service centers (which are the processing nodes of CIS) work on -- is distributed into "product lines"

As of the last 10 months, the "Family Product Line" has DACA processing prioritized - and this has directly disaffected citizen spouses who are the other customers in that line.

It is to the point where i-130 for IR1/CR1s have been thrown back WORSE than any other category being processed by the agency.

That is the problem.

They could have delayed LPR processing, special immigrants, TPS admits and everybody else - but they actually slowed down SPOUSES OF US CITIZENS.

HOW IS THAT ?

WHY IS THAT ?

AND WHAT FOR ?

Why should the OP have to spend a large amount of money going back and forth ? How do you know that it is not ridiculously expensive for that individual to do so ?

How do you know that he or she works three jobs and is supporting that other person abroad ?

How is it that this system does not allow for K-3 visas anymore (which were created for this very sort of situation right ? )

In no other country on earth, does someone who came here willingly or unwillingly (AND ILLEGALLY) get to claim that their "hopes and ambitions" take priorities over others. If you can cite me ONE COUNTRY, ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD - where this sort of behavior is rewarded, Id bet my month's wages over it.

The question of where they stand in line does not occur.

There should be no line for them period.

There should be no process for them PERIOD.

If you do not have a parent or a grandparent, an employer or a spouse petitioning for you - you have no business being in america.

Do you know how I know that - because there a vast majority of outsiders called non-immigrants who come to this country on THAT VERY PRINCIPLE.

Students and temporary workers from China, Korea, India and the phillipines - they wait 13 years because they have skills and something to add to the economy and the country. These people wait in line for 13 years - to get a green card. Why should somebody else get a work permit in 1 year ????

Thank god for John Boehner and thank god for the Republicans - that they have resolutely stood in the way of this tyrant of a president.

And FYI.. Jordan is not a "T" country. I just spent 8 weeks training there with an investment bank.

King Abdullah is an honest, able ruler - in my opinion, not just the best in the Arab world, but across the board.

He is a HUGE friend of America.

All of Jordan, including its currency, is strongly supported by the endeavors of several US Administrations.

The delay though has nothing to do with Jordan, or with Terrorism or with corruption.

The delay comes from a politics of minority-appeasement and vote bank.

Oh and the so called DREAM act will never pass - not even with Hillary.

Edited December 14, 2013 by aditya3245

[AMT7565 5]

Agree with the OP.

There is too much beauracratic waste and inefficiency with the processing. Both USCIS and State Dept are running with outdate policies, often overzealous actions and in the end, cause great harm to its people.

Class Action Law Suits are not necessarily for after-the-fact incidents, but for remedying potentailly hurtful actions as well; they can be a precedent setter!

Nobody- like some insenstive posters here- have a right to question a citizen's intention to remedy a broken system through legal means.

[thedude6752000 360]

at one point every single person in this country had ancestors who were immigrants, and our significant others ARE immigrants. Your point just doesn't make any sense. We all feel for people who have waited months BEYOND the projected processing times, but as aaron said, nothing in immigration is a guarantee. No one ever said that anyone was ever going to get through X amount of months, USCIS can only project based on the amount of cases being processed. The OP also started another thread saying that it is the governments fault that he cannot consummate his marriage as much as he would like, that's just grasping at straws. No one in the government EVER told him that he can't travel to see his wife to spend as much time with her as he wants.

The so called "illegals" who people on this site accuse of being given priority over everyone else are children who were brought here illegally by their parents when they were under the age of 18 , children who didn't have a choice in the matter. The Dream Act is giving these children the opportunity to become legal in a country that for many of them, is the only country they have ever known. It isn't like they are being handed a green card and being sent on their way. They still have a process to go through, and it isn't an easy for them either. They are people with hopes and aspirations and feelings like you and I, they are no less important than us, in my opinion.

We all understood when marrying someone from another country that the process of bringing them here was going to take time. Some have had to wait longer than others, it is what it is. My husband is from a so called "T" country and was given AP after his interview. This is something we both knew was a possibility, it meant an extra 10 weeks of waiting for us. We were lucky it was only 10 weeks, there are many more who have waited much longer. Never for one moment did I ever think of coming here and complaining about the black hole of AP, we understood it was part of the process, a matter of national security, and what right would I have to complain after seeing the years people from Pakistan are having to wait. Given the state of terrorism in the world who am I to complain about the government wanting to protect it's citizens?

What you say about illegals is not true. I live with a formerly undocumented immigrant from El Salvador, she came here in her 20's by just walking over the border from Mexico (which she also went to illegally) and now she complains all the time about "dee ###### immigracion" even though now she is being allowed to stay here with her family members and has a work permit--while my wife, who has never broken any immigration laws, is not allowed to even visit me for one week. I, too, have sympathy with the so-called "dreamers", but not with their parents who are law breakers and need to be deported ASAP. If you tell people here not to complain about the process, then how on earth can you listen to the complaints of these law breakers? It makes no sense.

And by the way, look up the "Kids' Act" that the Republicans in Congress are trying to pass. It grants status to dreamers but NOT to their parents or any other illegals, and is thus being opposed by the Democrats for purely political reasons. If they really cared about the "dreamers" they would pass the Kids' Act and then worry about the rest later. But they don't, they just want to use the "dreamers" to get amnesty passed, since out of the whole lot of criminals the "dreamers" are the only people with an even half-way respectable position for asking for legal status. If it were about the "dreamers" I would be fine with amnesty, but it's not, it's also about their 10 million adult relatives who flagrantly broke this country's laws and want to be allowed to stay here because if they left they would have to wait a while to come back. If this process is so just, then why are they afraid to leave and come back through it as spouses and parents applying for CR-1's?

If immigration is a "privilege" and not a right a right as you seem so found of telling people around here, then there's no other conclusion to come to besides that illegals, who were never granted this "privilege", need to be deported and right away, or else life needs to be made so difficult for them here that they leave on their own, if the above is not financially a feasible.

Edited December 14, 2013 by thedude6752000

[I & B 273]

Completely bananas. First of all, the plaintiffs in Kaplan were non-USCs who were already in the US, awaiting adjudication of their I-485 or their naturalisation. The OP's premise that a Kaplan-style class action would be applicable for the adjudication of I-130s/I-129Fs/pushing documents through the NVC/getting an interview date is inherently flawed. The Kaplan plaintiffs already had legal presence in the US; the putative plaintiffs in the OP's case do not.

Second, as (nearly) everyone has mentioned, having one's non-USC spouse join you in the US is a privilege, not a right. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's fair, or that this process is too long. It is what it is, and the bulk of VJ people who have "graduated" so to speak will tell you that the months (and years) of sadness they spent waiting to be reunited have faded in the face of the reality of being together. I've been on here for almost seven years and believe me, things are MUCH quicker than they used to be. Does it suck? Sure! But believe it or not things have improved and are improving. There have been weird periods of time when things accelerated, and when things slowed down beyond the norm. But it has improved.

Why? They increased the filing fees. More fees, more adjudicators. Here's a proposition -- how about everyone paying more money in increased fees so everyone can speed up? This isn't a taxpayer-funded enterprise. It is funded by the fees of those seeking visas and status. You get what you pay for.

Spot on.

The most efficient and effective way to improve the speed and accountability of the USCIS would be for them to up the fees. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for, and, in the big picture, those filing with the USCIS are not paying terribly much. Given that the long separations cost people many multiples of the filing fee amount--in both emotional and economic terms--this makes little sense.

Of course, we wouldn't want to turn the USCIS into a service that only the well off can make use of. I think the best system, then, would be one of allowing people to pay in tiers for various levels of expedited service. While many would balk at the idea that such a system could disproportionately help those with means, if the price structure was set up correctly, it could make the poorer filers better off as well.

For example:

Three tiers of filers:

I. Baseline, $1000 fee (100% of which goes to administration of own case)

II. Expedited (2x processing speed target), $2500 fee (80% of which goes to administration of own case, 20% of which is used to subsidize the administration of baseline cases)

III. Extra Expedited (4x processing speed target), $6000 fee (75% of which goes to administration of own case, 25% of which is used to subsidize the administration of baseline cases)

In this type of system, everyone would be better off. Those who value and can afford expedited processing times can receive them, and, at the same time, the baseline petitioner would get a boost too. In economic terms, it is sure to reduce deadweight loss. It frankly baffles me that this type of pricing structure isn't more widely used by government services. Then again, outside of those in the Antitrust division of the DOJ, I would venture few in government have spent much time considering the implications of Ramsey pricing.

[Kaylara 814]

Nobody- like some insenstive posters here- have a right to question a citizen's intention to remedy a broken system through legal means.

You're wrong, you know. We all have the right to question anything we want.