Older American woman Younger Algerian man

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I just want to mention just in case people may benefit from this is that to me, the worst possible scenario isn't really breaking up-- but rather breaking up and then having to deal with the I864 if the other person turned out to be a giant tool. So for those who haven't really read or understood the I-864, maybe take the time to do so now. Divorce does not negate it. It does not "time out." The beneficiary either works enough qualified quarters (minimum of 10 years iirc) or becomes a USC. Lots of discussion about heartbreak and such, but not a lot of discussion about how when you're in the midst of this, it could also turn out to be a financial disaster that affects you and your family's life for a long, long time.

I have never met a woman affected by an I 864. I have met women much like myself who have faced losing houses. I actually know someone who put their spouse on her house to increase the likelihood of approval by immigration.. He left her and she STILL cannot get him off her house. I also know women who have lost their lifes savings including myself trying to bring someone over here and when they got here, were just a trainwreck since the luggage belt. I still have not met anyone that has used the I864 and gotten the wife into trouble. This can happen ALOT with women becase they have kids and then apply for welfare, cash assistance and government aid. Most of these men once they are out of the house of the enabling wife, and YES I SAID ENABLING, do HAVE to get jobs and usually do not get any kind of financial aid. They cannot get student loans and default on them because they are not US CITIZENS..Although personally, I think if my ex could have, he would have and I know he would not have paid the bill. He was sued by a credit card company after we split up because he did not pay that bill and I am sure if he could have figured out a way to run away from that, he would have.

When I divorced my spouse.. and I said I DIVORCED HIM, he did not file and leave me, he was at that point TRYING TO COME BACK AGAIN. The only reason I looked like a good option is BECAUSE I WAS KIND TO HIM. I cannot come on here and tell you I was ballsy and I told him this and that because I will be honest. He was a jackass and I kept putting up with it more and more and more and more. He left I let him back , again and again and again and again. In fact the real reason I went all the way through with a divorce was because I finally had a real heart to heart with an attorney who broke it down for me. Six years of marriage and you have a house. Let me explain to you honey just how much he is ENTITLED to. And He was. Because I had equity. He was LEGALLY MARRIED TO ME and he would technically be displaced even though he was in and out in and out but LEGALLY he had his address still with me.

Now whos fault was that? MIne. I married him and I think I got so carried away with the visa being approved and the child we had and then lost, I didnt seem to care that every single red flag was all over the place.

Am I going to stay with this guy I am dating? I have dated two times since I got divorced. One time was about 5 months after the last time I had sex with my husband and about a month after we officially got divorced. It was a guy who had kids with a moroccan woman and he was used for a greencard by his moroccan wife who was haraga or ILLEGAL here and she was much younger than him and like 19 and he was 35 and as soon as she got her permanent greencard, she took off on him. He was a HOT MESS from that. I dated him for about a month and we ate out alot and hung out but he was a LUNATIC from being used and still really is. We were never serious. We just talked alot and drank coffee and were more friends than anything. But it gave me alot of perspective of the fact that this nonsense can happen to them too. The guy I am dating I met in the spring at a HOME DEPOT.. not a dating site or anything LOL and he truly has been more of a FRIEND than a boyfriend as well. Sure we care about each other. Am I in the same kind of dumb founded blinding love I was with my ex? Not really. And to tell you the truth about him, I think his american ex dumped him. He has ALOT of weird quirky stuff about him, stuff I understand having been friends with alot of north africans but she was a high school drop out and and not very educated and did not speak other languages and I think she probably got fed up with things...You never know the true story but unlike me, she was not in a stable place and moved from trailer park to trailer park dragging him along with her. Hes a very simple country person and I can imagine the shock of coming all the way over here and moving into a jerry springer situation and truthfully, truth be told, its not always paradise for the petitioned person.

I honestly do not know if I will EVER get married again. My father passed away in July and I am dealing with a massive inheritance coming down the pike and my mom is not really comfortable with me being married , period. I do not blame her because if I would STILL be married to the jack ### I was married to and I had money on the way, he would be trying to get his hands on it. I cannot afford to put my family money in jeapordy and frankly, I do not think Ill get married again or at least until my mom passes away. She was so traumatised by the loss of my child and by the behavior or both my husband and his family,she would not accept me getting married without an iron clad pre nup and I cannot see the benefit of getting married anymore anyway. Unless the man had more assets than my mom and than I will eventually, what would be the point? I can still have kids but do I want to have anymore? After that trainwreck and not being able to get out? I am NOT thinking about marrying ANYONE.

And Zoletta, trust me. It sounds like its so easy to let go after you bring them here. The age difference, 20 years DOES matter and its usually going to be TOO GREAT to overcome. If you can emotionally survive being sexually in love with someone and they ditch you to be with either someone from their country or someone a lot younger, how will you deal with it? I didnt have as big as a gap ( 12 years) and I was emotionally LEVELLED when both my spouse pulled his bs and frankly HIS FAMILY was manuevering to get benefit from me. The more I paid attention , the more I knew that the whole FAMILY was in on it and several family members had done the marrying for papers thing INCLDUING HIS OWN FATHER in europe in the 1970s. This whole pollyanna view of other cultures will hurt you later Zoletta. And talking to people on sites? No one is going to really get down and dirty with you and tell you the real deal with alot of these marriages.. There is a word in Algerian called SHEKAMA. Ask your boyfriend what that is. Its a person who helps someone from another culture defend themselves against their spouse. Anytime any algerian tried to help me, they were a shekama. There are some algerians who will NOT defend a foreign spouse out of loyalty to their own people. You are NOT going to hear most of the hardest things from them. You will however hear it from the American spouses out of trainwreck relationships. I think the fact I am dating someone from there AFTER WHAT HAPPENED speaks VOLUMES about my respect for them. But even he himself points out his friends who have done this stuff. Is it fair? No. Does it happen? Yes. Does that mean it will happen to you? Dont know. But do not minimalise things because its very real. If you do not have financial assets and its only your heart that is at risk. is your heart worth that little to you Zoletta? Are you worth that little to yourself to minimalise the risk of losing whats left of your health over losing someone. If so , you are more woman than me. It devastated me. I STILL have nightmares about him mixed with a sympathy and pain and anger and a whole soup of stuff. He actually tried to come back in MARCH telling me OH RABBAK I really always loved you. Ill take you back to the masjid and marry you bla bla bla. . This is after YEARS of sadisitic nonsense. I had just started dating this guy who like I told you most likely will NEVER be my husband and even with knowing someone else, I was STILL vulnerable and very in love with my husband. This is a game some of us do not play well and I certainly didnt. To this day,, I STILL HURT over what he did to me. I loved him. I invested time into getting him here. I spent all my savings paying for tickets and phone calls and trips back in forth to end up with NOTHING. These relatioships are NOT a game and do have real life lasting consequences.

I have one critical difference between me and some of the other FAILED marriages I have seen. I did NOT stop being friends with people from that culture and adjoining cultures. I am still DATING someone from there and most likely will continue because I am compatible and speak the language.

Would I marry someone from over there and go through years of immigration.? No. I cannot personally handle another case, another heartbreak . I could not physically go through even 20 percent of what my ex put me through and what I had to go here to get him here. I think part of me will always love and miss him no matter what he did. Not every day was bad. Not every memory was bad. But Zoletta please do not MINIMISE the long lasting affects that some of these relationships have on the petitioners. Like the girl said before, You can be left with the financial impact of these relationships long after the actual break up.. Maybe not from the I 864 but from the actual process and such.

[Nasturtium 500]

I totally agree with you. Who knows who or where we will be in 20 years. So I understand why it's not that important for you to talk about it. However, if things work out on your visit, the two of you will eventually have an interview to prepare for. They might ask him a question like that. You have a few "red flags", and while it seems you're doing an excellent job of preparing yourself, you've got to try to see things from the CO's point of view. They have been known to ask about future plans, and have even asked very bluntly "Why do you want to marry a woman so old?", or "why don't you want to marry a younger/more beautiful/Algerian woman?" Your man should be ready to answer questions about your future together as a couple.

Again, you're doing what you can to protect and prepare yourself, but remember, the CO doesn't have years to get to know him. They won't ask him hundreds of questions at the interview. If a VJ member, or a friend points out something to you that is unusual, or culturally incongruent, chances are that the CO will notice it too. They may ask him about it. You won't be there. They won't ask you. While your explanations on VJ are reasonable, and informed, and you seem very intelligent, the CO won't know this. They don't care if you're prepared to be wrong about him.

You're taking your time, proceding with caution, and attempting build a strong relationship. Don't forget you will need to build a strong case. Many people "front-load" their petitions with extra photos, chat logs, etc. One suggestion, is to include some of these "deeper" conversations with your petition. Talk about the things you don't necessarily want to talk about. If they actually read the logs, then at least they'll have a chance to get to know a little bit about who you are as a person and as a couple.

You posted in an older thread that you are an atheist. At that time, I just assumed your man was not Muslim, or perhaps not practicing...whatever. Now that you've said he is, I'm having a "things that make you go hmmm???" moment. It seems very strange to me that he doesn't have a problem with your beliefs or lack thereof. I'm no expert, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a Muslim could/would not marry an atheist. Even if he is ok with it, I have to wonder how his family feels about it. While the two of you may be ok with it, you can be sure that it's another red flag that will make the CO do a doubletake. He should be prepared to answer questions regarding that as well.

There have been several long-time members in the forum who are atheists married to Muslims (practicing or not). It may not be *technically* allowed, but it may work fine for that couple. It's like the having kids thing. Not every couple wants kids, and not every couple is going to follow the rules lol. It goes back to the quirks versus culturally acceptable thing. There's some individual variation as to what people are comfortable with.

I think though that you're advice is spot on. Consulate officers do ask about that kind of stuff and although I get that people don't know how exactly they will be, the obsessive planner in me can't help but have a certain amount of lose planning for even 20 years down the road. It's like saving for retirement. You really do one thing-- accumulate money. You may not know exactly where every dollar will go, but you know you'll need it so you do it.

[Nasturtium 500]

I have never met a woman affected by an I 864. I have met women much like myself who have faced losing houses. I actually know someone who put their spouse on her house to increase the likelihood of approval by immigration.. He left her and she STILL cannot get him off her house. I also know women who have lost their lifes savings including myself trying to bring someone over here and when they got here, were just a trainwreck since the luggage belt. I still have not met anyone that has used the I864 and gotten the wife into trouble. This can happen ALOT with women becase they have kids and then apply for welfare, cash assistance and government aid. Most of these men once they are out of the house of the enabling wife, and YES I SAID ENABLING, do HAVE to get jobs and usually do not get any kind of financial aid. They cannot get student loans and default on them because they are not US CITIZENS..Although personally, I think if my ex could have, he would have and I know he would not have paid the bill. He was sued by a credit card company after we split up because he did not pay that bill and I am sure if he could have figured out a way to run away from that, he would have.

When I divorced my spouse.. and I said I DIVORCED HIM, he did not file and leave me, he was at that point TRYING TO COME BACK AGAIN. The only reason I looked like a good option is BECAUSE I WAS KIND TO HIM. I cannot come on here and tell you I was ballsy and I told him this and that because I will be honest. He was a jackass and I kept putting up with it more and more and more and more. He left I let him back , again and again and again and again. In fact the real reason I went all the way through with a divorce was because I finally had a real heart to heart with an attorney who broke it down for me. Six years of marriage and you have a house. Let me explain to you honey just how much he is ENTITLED to. And He was. Because I had equity. He was LEGALLY MARRIED TO ME and he would technically be displaced even though he was in and out in and out but LEGALLY he had his address still with me.

Now whos fault was that? MIne. I married him and I think I got so carried away with the visa being approved and the child we had and then lost, I didnt seem to care that every single red flag was all over the place.

Am I going to stay with this guy I am dating? I have dated two times since I got divorced. One time was about 5 months after the last time I had sex with my husband and about a month after we officially got divorced. It was a guy who had kids with a moroccan woman and he was used for a greencard by his moroccan wife who was haraga or ILLEGAL here and she was much younger than him and like 19 and he was 35 and as soon as she got her permanent greencard, she took off on him. He was a HOT MESS from that. I dated him for about a month and we ate out alot and hung out but he was a LUNATIC from being used and still really is. We were never serious. We just talked alot and drank coffee and were more friends than anything. But it gave me alot of perspective of the fact that this nonsense can happen to them too. The guy I am dating I met in the spring at a HOME DEPOT.. not a dating site or anything LOL and he truly has been more of a FRIEND than a boyfriend as well. Sure we care about each other. Am I in the same kind of dumb founded blinding love I was with my ex? Not really. And to tell you the truth about him, I think his american ex dumped him. He has ALOT of weird quirky stuff about him, stuff I understand having been friends with alot of north africans but she was a high school drop out and and not very educated and did not speak other languages and I think she probably got fed up with things...You never know the true story but unlike me, she was not in a stable place and moved from trailer park to trailer park dragging him along with her. Hes a very simple country person and I can imagine the shock of coming all the way over here and moving into a jerry springer situation and truthfully, truth be told, its not always paradise for the petitioned person.

I honestly do not know if I will EVER get married again. My father passed away in July and I am dealing with a massive inheritance coming down the pike and my mom is not really comfortable with me being married , period. I do not blame her because if I would STILL be married to the jack #### I was married to and I had money on the way, he would be trying to get his hands on it. I cannot afford to put my family money in jeapordy and frankly, I do not think Ill get married again or at least until my mom passes away. She was so traumatised by the loss of my child and by the behavior or both my husband and his family,she would not accept me getting married without an iron clad pre nup and I cannot see the benefit of getting married anymore anyway. Unless the man had more assets than my mom and than I will eventually, what would be the point? I can still have kids but do I want to have anymore? After that trainwreck and not being able to get out? I am NOT thinking about marrying ANYONE.

And Zoletta, trust me. It sounds like its so easy to let go after you bring them here. The age difference, 20 years DOES matter and its usually going to be TOO GREAT to overcome. If you can emotionally survive being sexually in love with someone and they ditch you to be with either someone from their country or someone a lot younger, how will you deal with it? I didnt have as big as a gap ( 12 years) and I was emotionally LEVELLED when both my spouse pulled his bs and frankly HIS FAMILY was manuevering to get benefit from me. The more I paid attention , the more I knew that the whole FAMILY was in on it and several family members had done the marrying for papers thing INCLDUING HIS OWN FATHER in europe in the 1970s. This whole pollyanna view of other cultures will hurt you later Zoletta. And talking to people on sites? No one is going to really get down and dirty with you and tell you the real deal with alot of these marriages.. There is a word in Algerian called SHEKAMA. Ask your boyfriend what that is. Its a person who helps someone from another culture defend themselves against their spouse. Anytime any algerian tried to help me, they were a shekama. There are some algerians who will NOT defend a foreign spouse out of loyalty to their own people. You are NOT going to hear most of the hardest things from them. You will however hear it from the American spouses out of trainwreck relationships. I think the fact I am dating someone from there AFTER WHAT HAPPENED speaks VOLUMES about my respect for them. But even he himself points out his friends who have done this stuff. Is it fair? No. Does it happen? Yes. Does that mean it will happen to you? Dont know. But do not minimalise things because its very real. If you do not have financial assets and its only your heart that is at risk. is your heart worth that little to you Zoletta? Are you worth that little to yourself to minimalise the risk of losing whats left of your health over losing someone. If so , you are more woman than me. It devastated me. I STILL have nightmares about him mixed with a sympathy and pain and anger and a whole soup of stuff. He actually tried to come back in MARCH telling me OH RABBAK I really always loved you. Ill take you back to the masjid and marry you bla bla bla. . This is after YEARS of sadisitic nonsense. I had just started dating this guy who like I told you most likely will NEVER be my husband and even with knowing someone else, I was STILL vulnerable and very in love with my husband. This is a game some of us do not play well and I certainly didnt. To this day,, I STILL HURT over what he did to me. I loved him. I invested time into getting him here. I spent all my savings paying for tickets and phone calls and trips back in forth to end up with NOTHING. These relatioships are NOT a game and do have real life lasting consequences.

I have one critical difference between me and some of the other FAILED marriages I have seen. I did NOT stop being friends with people from that culture and adjoining cultures. I am still DATING someone from there and most likely will continue because I am compatible and speak the language.

Would I marry someone from over there and go through years of immigration.? No. I cannot personally handle another case, another heartbreak . I could not physically go through even 20 percent of what my ex put me through and what I had to go here to get him here. I think part of me will always love and miss him no matter what he did. Not every day was bad. Not every memory was bad. But Zoletta please do not MINIMISE the long lasting affects that some of these relationships have on the petitioners. Like the girl said before, You can be left with the financial impact of these relationships long after the actual break up.. Maybe not from the I 864 but from the actual process and such.

I have met a woman affected by the I864. 5 years after her divorce, she had the IRS show up at her door saying she needed to pay $15k in back taxes that her husband owed because he lied on his taxes that he had 5+ dependents after they divorced and had taken off back to Jordan. I don't know about you, but I would not be thrilled.

[Crossed_fingers 128]

But I feel like sometimes there's an implication from the veterans that being in a MENA relationship is so inherently risky that there is nothing you can do to negate the risk. That the taking it slow, getting to know him, spending lots of time together, talking about expectations mean nothing because after all, MENA men are the best actors EVAH and can go on scamming for years and years without showing a single sign that he's anything but the world's most perfect partner.

I don't mean to nitpick when I've largely agreed with some of the rest of your posts, but I haven't seen the above view expressed by any of the "rainbow and unicorn killing" veterans. To the contrary, I'd say many veterans see red flags that are so obvious they can be detected from a few paragraphs posted on an anonymous online forum. There may be a danger that the USC is wearing blinders and ignores the red flags, but that's not the same thing as a beneficiary acting flawlessly legitimate for years until one day flipping the switch that no one could have seen coming.

[American Woman 75 21]

You posted in an older thread that you are an atheist. At that time, I just assumed your man was not Muslim, or perhaps not practicing...whatever. Now that you've said he is, I'm having a "things that make you go hmmm???" moment. It seems very strange to me that he doesn't have a problem with your beliefs or lack thereof. I'm no expert, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a Muslim could/would not marry an atheist. Even if he is ok with it, I have to wonder how his family feels about it. While the two of you may be ok with it, you can be sure that it's another red flag that will make the CO do a doubletake. He should be prepared to answer questions regarding that as well.

Yes, I did say I was an atheist in an earlier post. And yes, he did have a huge problem with it - after he began to feel love for me, and after he began to think that we could actually make this work. Once he began to think of us being together in a real way, we discussed this issue to the point of tears and exhaustion. No, he would NOT accept it. And no, he COULD not accept it. Although, for the first few months, when we were just friends, and we were just beginning to develop feelings, he did not say too much about. So I have definitely noticed that he is thinking more seriously about us, now. Which is a good thing, because it shows that he did not come to me in a way that would suggest he was thinking about marriage right from the starting gate - no. That would have been a sure sign of a scam, indeed. But, that's not the way it happened. I have watched our relationship slowly progress, and I have seen him become more and more serious over time about moving us away from the cyberworld and into the real one.

I used to be Christian - but I wandered away from it when I began to take an interest in quantum physics, anthropology and the history of world religions, and Christopher Hitchens.

However, one day, when my mother was in the hospital, as she was on and off for many months during her last year of life, I was at home with my then fiance. I remember I had my jacket on, my purse hanging from my shoulder, my car keys in my hand, and we were ready to walk out the door. We were going to stop at his father's house first, to wish him a happy birthday, then go to visit my mother in the hospital, as we did every night.

But something, something came over me so strong - a feeling - that made me sit down and wait. I didn't know what I was supposed to wait for, or why. But I could not bring myself to walk out that door. It felt like someone was telling me to wait, only without words.

My then fiance could not understand what I was doing, and I remember him looking at me, like...what's wrong with you? What are you doing? And I just sat there, on the couch, still in my jacket, holding my purse and keys in my hand.

After five or ten minutes had passed by, the phone rang. The house phone, because back then only the rich had cell phones, and they were big clunky monsters, anyway.

It was the hospital, calling to inform me that my mother had just slipped into a coma, and her blood pressure was falling. They told me to come as fast as I could.

This was an entirely inexplicable event, and one of many, in fact, one of dozens, that I have experienced in my lifetime. A 'true' atheist would not believe that these types of events had any significance other than pure coincidence. I cannot agree with that, and so I've come to realize that I wasn't a 'true' atheist, after all.

So with much deliberation, and re-visiting my old inner-arguements, I have gone back to Christianity. A smooth, easy, and natural adjustment for me to make, as that is what I was for most of my life. He would be delighted if I became Muslim, of course. But that is something that does not feel natural to me, or comfortable. So, I will not do it - not even if he told me it would cost me his love.

'To thine own self be true,

and it must follow, as the night the day,

thou canst not then be false to any man.'

I used to have a game, when I was kid, called 'Perfection.' This was a sort of rectangular plastic box with a timer on it, and a lot of empty funny shaped holes that had matching pieces to put inside. You'd set the timer, and then try to match up all the funny shaped pieces to the funny shaped holes before the timer went off, and the box made all the pieces pop up in the air.

You can't insert a round shape into a square hole, no matter how much you want to avoid the timer going off, and the box making all the other shapes that did fit explode into the air. I will never force myself to change in a way that doesn't 'fit' me. Not for him, not for anyone. I told him that. And he told ME that, about himself, as well.

We are not school-children in love, here. We are two adults who sparked with each other, and are taking our time to explore each other's minds and hearts, to see if we CAN live with each other...without losing ourselves in the process. If we can compromise on our differences, we will have a successful relationship. If we cannot, then we cannot, and we need to face that head on.

Successful and long-lasting marriages require more than love. Love feels good, and it's a beautiful thing to share that experience, but it's not the be all and end all of a relationship. I have learned that the hard way, and he knows this, as well.

For example, I told him I will not give up displaying my holiday decorations for Christmas and Halloween. These things are critically important to me, because the decorations I use have been handed down to me from my mother and aunts, all of whom have passed away - and when I display them once a year, I am flooded with good memories of sharing those holidays with my family, and that's too important to me to lose. He said he won't try to stop me, but he will not participate in helping me to display them. That is a workable compromise that we can both live with.

He will not eat pork. So I have agreed to never buy it, or keep it in the house.

He would want our child, if we have one, to be raised Muslim. I have agreed to this, because although the required rituals of Islam are not something that I am personally comfortable with, that is because I was not raised that way. But a child will have no such preconceived notions - and so the child will feel happy and comfortable either way. And since I do not view one religion to be superior over another, I can feel perfectly ok if he or she is brought up as a Muslim. After all, the father is Muslim, and I sure see nothing wrong there.

I have also agreed to learn more about Islam, and happily so. I am also learning Arabic and French - just starting out, but I'm giving it my best shot. It's important to me to learn as much as I can about his life, the things that have influenced him and his way of thinking, the things that he values, the things that he disdains. All of it.

We are very much a product of our environment, and when our different worlds finally come together, the merger of the two will be colossal.

Our conversations are more than 'I miss you' and 'I miss you, toooooooo' (although we get that in there - with a lot of other lovey-dovey stuff, as well!) we discuss everything under the sun. And we take turns teaching each other about 'our people' - haha. That sounds so funny, like we're aliens - but it's true. I give him a lot of examples about what he might encounter with American people, here. Both good AND bad. And he tells me what to expect when I arrive in Algeria. We talk about the traditions of our cultures that are so much a part of us, and WHY they are important - what it means to us personally, and how we must respect each other's differences.

We even tackle the stereotypes - and quite bluntly, I might add! I asked him point blank if he would ever beat me, since according to his religion, that's something he would have the right to do, albeit under very specific circumstances. He told me this is not something he is capable of - and I believe this without doubt. Why do I believe this without doubt? Because of what I see in his face, in his body language, in his ways of processing things in his mind. I believe it because, on cam, I am able to watch and study (yes, I 'study' him - heehee! I put on my imaginary white lab coat and take notes on my clipboard ) every little twitch on his face as he's listening to what I say. Over and over and over again, I see his face - his highly expressive face - in sync with my own emotions. If I am sad, my sadness shows all over his face. And if my sadness is because of something that he said - he cannot feel peace until he understands why, and tries to make me understand his position in a better way, so that I can feel better. Notice I said he tries to make me 'understand in a better way' - NOT that he takes back what he said, or changes his story. This is a very important point for all women to understand. If they change their story from one thing to another, just to put a smile on your face, that means they are full of you know what.

And he has asked me what I would do if, after he came to America, he decided that he didn't like it, and that he wanted to return to Algeria, to his home there, his friends and his family. What would I do if he couldn't fit in here, and he wanted us both to move to and live in Algeria. I told him I couldn't answer that until after I arrived, and saw what it's like there with my own eyes. But, I told him, from what I know, the answer would most likely be no.

These are not easy discussions, and the answers are not always what we want to hear. But these types of questions are about the immediate future - so they are important, and necessary.

So, my advice is to fully probe and explore each other's minds - compromise where you can - and if you can't, if you really truly can't live with this, or he can't live with that - then step out of it before it's too late. You'll survive. I promise.

[American Woman 75 21]

And Zoletta, trust me. It sounds like its so easy to let go after you bring them here. The age difference, 20 years DOES matter and its usually going to be TOO GREAT to overcome. If you can emotionally survive being sexually in love with someone and they ditch you to be with either someone from their country or someone a lot younger, how will you deal with it? I didnt have as big as a gap ( 12 years) and I was emotionally LEVELLED when both my spouse pulled his bs and frankly HIS FAMILY was manuevering to get benefit from me. The more I paid attention , the more I knew that the whole FAMILY was in on it and several family members had done the marrying for papers thing INCLDUING HIS OWN FATHER in europe in the 1970s. This whole pollyanna view of other cultures will hurt you later Zoletta. And talking to people on sites? No one is going to really get down and dirty with you and tell you the real deal with alot of these marriages.. There is a word in Algerian called SHEKAMA. Ask your boyfriend what that is. Its a person who helps someone from another culture defend themselves against their spouse. Anytime any algerian tried to help me, they were a shekama. There are some algerians who will NOT defend a foreign spouse out of loyalty to their own people. You are NOT going to hear most of the hardest things from them. You will however hear it from the American spouses out of trainwreck relationships. I think the fact I am dating someone from there AFTER WHAT HAPPENED speaks VOLUMES about my respect for them. But even he himself points out his friends who have done this stuff. Is it fair? No. Does it happen? Yes. Does that mean it will happen to you? Dont know. But do not minimalise things because its very real. If you do not have financial assets and its only your heart that is at risk. is your heart worth that little to you Zoletta? Are you worth that little to yourself to minimalise the risk of losing whats left of your health over losing someone. If so , you are more woman than me. It devastated me. I STILL have nightmares about him mixed with a sympathy and pain and anger and a whole soup of stuff. He actually tried to come back in MARCH telling me OH RABBAK I really always loved you. Ill take you back to the masjid and marry you bla bla bla. . This is after YEARS of sadisitic nonsense. I had just started dating this guy who like I told you most likely will NEVER be my husband and even with knowing someone else, I was STILL vulnerable and very in love with my husband. This is a game some of us do not play well and I certainly didnt. To this day,, I STILL HURT over what he did to me. I loved him. I invested time into getting him here. I spent all my savings paying for tickets and phone calls and trips back in forth to end up with NOTHING. These relatioships are NOT a game and do have real life lasting consequences.

Oh, I know the feeling of devastation you're describing - and you choose exactly the right word to call it. I had that when I was cheated on only weeks before my wedding, in my 20s. It's horrible, and I'm not minimizing it at all. I'm just saying that I don't want to be a wallflower while life passes me by because I'm too scared to take a chance. ANY love can end up devastating me, so what should I do, become a nun? No.

But implying that all or even most Algerian men are a certain way is no different than how the white American women were warned against marrying black American men, no matter if they were doctors or lawyers or successful entrepreneurs. These Algerians are not animals, Beauty. They are men. They are individuals. They are not all out to 'get' us.

I agree, it's wise to be careful. And like I said earlier, I am doing my homework, and I have my eyes wide open. But so far, I have not found anything to make me run. I've been scared shitless from some of the horror stories I've read, such as what you've been through - but in my own unique relationship, I have so far not seen any reason to run...or even doubt. That is to say, yes, I found some things that were questionable to believe, so I questioned them - using various methods, and found that everything was ok after all. If I had found something to NOT be ok, then I would have said FTS and walked.

Not to say that to end up with a broken heart is impossible, because that would be true for ANY relationship. But I have seen no signs of dishonesty or high strangeness that would lead me to suspect that he's anything but sincere. If I did - I would dig into it. And if I dug into it and didn't find a reasonable explanation, I would end it, and move on.

Can I ask you, Beauty for Ashes, in hindsight...what were the red flags your ex might have given you early on? What things might have been clear signs that it was a scam, before he got here? How did it start out between the two of you?

I also want to say, about the other Algerians not being forthright about Algerian scams...that was also not what I experienced. I talked to a lot of other Algerian men in their 20s, and asked them a lot of questions in a very direct way. They answered in the same fashion. They told me that many Algerian men think American women are whores, and they are only interested in getting a Green Card, or the women meeting up with them in Tunisia for a screw. They DID tell me that. They told me everybody wants to get out of there, there is no future, no opportunity. The life is hard. I did not encounter anyone trying to sugarcoat anything.

But what's true for one, or some, or even most...does not mean for all. Every person has to be evaluated as an individual. So, yes, these stories are scary, to be sure. No doubt. That's why I keep my eyes wide open, I'm on the alert, I do my homework, and I'm not afraid to walk if need be. And it wouldn't take much, either. Just one sign. Just one. But it would have to be a good one.

I am sooo sorry about what happened to you. I am soooo sorry. Your ex sounds like a mindless, thoughtless, caca for brains lunatic. I wish I could pee in his open eyes, as my Italian friend says when she's 'pissed' - hahaa.

But again, I have to wonder....how did you not see this in his character from the beginning? Or did you? That's what I'd really like to hear about - is what happened in the beginning. Did you have deep and meaningful discussions about life? Did he show empathy when you were sad or something bothered you? Did he laugh off your troubles like they were all trivial nonsense? Did you catch him in lies or inconsistencies? What happened? And how long were you 'together' before you met?

[Peter_Pan 661]

To the OP - make a fake account, of a 21 yo Californian girl, a blue eyed blonde that's interested in him, and you will see how fast he discards you. If he says ,,no, thanks, I have a fiancee, whom I love much, have a great life", then you have a winner. If not ... well, then you will know.

[American Woman 75 21]

To the OP - make a fake account, of a 21 yo Californian girl, a blue eyed blonde that's interested in him, and you will see how fast he discards you. If he says ,,no, thanks, I have a fiancee, whom I love much, have a great life", then you have a winner. If not ... well, then you will know.

Very good - VERY GOOD!!! I highly second this motion!!! And, I want to happily announce...I HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Oh, I know the feeling of devastation you're describing - and you choose exactly the right word to call it. I had that when I was cheated on only weeks before my wedding, in my 20s. It's horrible, and I'm not minimizing it at all. I'm just saying that I don't want to be a wallflower while life passes me by because I'm too scared to take a chance. ANY love can end up devastating me, so what should I do, become a nun? No.

But implying that all or even most Algerian men are a certain way is no different than how the white American women were warned against marrying black American men, no matter if they were doctors or lawyers or successful entrepreneurs. These Algerians are not animals, Beauty. They are men. They are individuals. They are not all out to 'get' us.

I agree, it's wise to be careful. And like I said earlier, I am doing my homework, and I have my eyes wide open. But so far, I have not found anything to make me run. I've been scared shitless from some of the horror stories I've read, such as what you've been through - but in my own unique relationship, I have so far not seen any reason to run...or even doubt. That is to say, yes, I found some things that were questionable to believe, so I questioned them - using various methods, and found that everything was ok after all. If I had found something to NOT be ok, then I would have said FTS and walked.

Not to say that to end up with a broken heart is impossible, because that would be true for ANY relationship. But I have seen no signs of dishonesty or high strangeness that would lead me to suspect that he's anything but sincere. If I did - I would dig into it. And if I dug into it and didn't find a reasonable explanation, I would end it, and move on.

Can I ask you, Beauty for Ashes, in hindsight...what were the red flags your ex might have given you early on? What things might have been clear signs that it was a scam, before he got here? How did it start out between the two of you?

I also want to say, about the other Algerians not being forthright about Algerian scams...that was also not what I experienced. I talked to a lot of other Algerian men in their 20s, and asked them a lot of questions in a very direct way. They answered in the same fashion. They told me that many Algerian men think American women are whores, and they are only interested in getting a Green Card, or the women meeting up with them in Tunisia for a screw. They DID tell me that. They told me everybody wants to get out of there, there is no future, no opportunity. The life is hard. I did not encounter anyone trying to sugarcoat anything.

But what's true for one, or some, or even most...does not mean for all. Every person has to be evaluated as an individual. So, yes, these stories are scary, to be sure. No doubt. That's why I keep my eyes wide open, I'm on the alert, I do my homework, and I'm not afraid to walk if need be. And it wouldn't take much, either. Just one sign. Just one. But it would have to be a good one.

I am sooo sorry about what happened to you. I am soooo sorry. Your ex sounds like a mindless, thoughtless, caca for brains lunatic. I wish I could pee in his open eyes, as my Italian friend says when she's 'pissed' - hahaa.

But again, I have to wonder....how did you not see this in his character from the beginning? Or did you? That's what I'd really like to hear about - is what happened in the beginning. Did you have deep and meaningful discussions about life? Did he show empathy when you were sad or something bothered you? Did he laugh off your troubles like they were all trivial nonsense? Did you catch him in lies or inconsistencies? What happened? And how long were you 'together' before you met?

I used to be better able to recount things. My dad dying in July really kind of sunk me. I lost alot of time with my parents because the last several years I was messing around with him. In fact instead of enjoying my dads last xmas, I was fighting to get out of this marriage. I am not sure if recounting things would really be of any benefit to you. He was younger than me. He was NOT particularly bright. He had some endearing qualities but he was severely mentally ill and had been very abused by his family. His mother had something severely wrong with her. His maternal uncle was a paranoid schizoprhenic. I think that after I divorced him in December and he showed up in March of this year telling me he loved me so much , I really started to deeply understand how sick he was .. I think he really had something wrong with him.

It was not just physical abuse. It was emotional as well. What hurt me the most is that other Algerians knew I was being battered, some even witnessed it and they CONDONED IT! I had one literally try to supervise me after I was hit to make sure I did not call the cops. Looking back, it for me was the whole group of them NOT stopping him which was the hardest on me. After I split up from him, I have had them come to me and apologise... which was super hard on me. I felt bullied by not only him but by his whole family. I still to this day do not know why my own family did not step in to help me but my mom and dad were so elderly that it was too stressful to deal with a raging screaming tantrum throwing Algerian. I got out when I got the emotional strength to get out. I got out when I could face going through the hell that it took to extricate myself. It took me a full 6 months to divorce him and then get him out of my home. To this day< I have nightmares about him and wake up with my heart racing. Did I love him? Yes. Desperately. Yes and yes and yes. Was being with him a good choice for me and my family. No. I was very attached to him. I know I helped him have a new life outside of Algeria. I know the ONLY reason he was able to reunite with his mother who was illegal in france was because of me. I gave him a new life. I helped him out of horrible poverty. I take solace in that. Its all I have.

I really am much happier with the man I am dating now and he really is my friend. He is NOT from the same part of Algeria. He is actually from a villiage in a state called SETIF and grew up on a farm tending sheep. The man i was married to was from ORAN and very slick and always dressed to the nines. The man I am dating now is simple. DId not even have pictures taken of himself until he was like 8 and had like 10 brothers and sisters and lost his mother at 10. Two completley different life stories. I am much happier with the guy from the villiage who is my age and is not very slick.

To this day, if I hear rai, which I LOVED or see someone darker and very handsome like the oranis who look alot like moroccans, I shake. I literally shake. Not from happiness but more from trauma. He put me through ALOT and to this day I am very traumatised.. You can love things that are bad for you and he was my bad thing

I am much happier with the guy from Setif, honeslty, Hes not very slick . He does not talk alot but hes kind of a farmer type and much kinder. I have no idea if we will progress but I know what I do NOT want to be with. I do not every want to be with a mean person who hurts me. And there are not enough days in the year or money in all the banks to EVER make me want to be back with my ex.I have now experienced the peace of a more normal life...

I remember this song came out when I met him.. He knew HASNI as a child and he was from the town I adored... ORAN! WIcked beautiful and passionate ORAN...

I have run away to the farm across Algeria and found peace with a farmer....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3-z6XZfDH4

[sandinista! 1,816]

This is just my random opinion, but I viewed my participation in the immigration process to bring my then fiancé over here not only in terms of "ohmygosh I love him and want to be with him night and day", but also in terms of his character, ethics, and morality as a boon to the society I live in. My actions, petitioning for him to move here, affected more than just myself, and my family. Beyond if he made a good husband, father, I felt like it was my social responsibility to ensure to the best of my ability that the person I was helping move here would not be detrimental to anyone else here. Others, obviously, disregard that.

[Cathi 5,742]

This is just my random opinion, but I viewed my participation in the immigration process to bring my then fiancé over here not only in terms of "ohmygosh I love him and want to be with him night and day", but also in terms of his character, ethics, and morality as a boon to the society I live in. My actions, petitioning for him to move here, affected more than just myself, and my family. Beyond if he made a good husband, father, I felt like it was my social responsibility to ensure to the best of my ability that the person I was helping move here would not be detrimental to anyone else here. Others, obviously, disregard that.

I felt very much the same in terms of bringing my husband here. My ex husband has zero ethics or morals( he stole 100k from my brother who he was in business with, in turn we lost everything including the house we built, a story for another day). I was interested in my now husband because of his character and ethics, among many other reasons. I will also say that it was my idea to visit my husband in Jordan the first time, he never asked me. He wasn't one of those men you hear of who latches on to an Ameican woman and never lets go, he had never given a thought before we met in real life, about coming or wanting to be in the US. He had a very successful career, many friends, a wonderful, close and loving family that he had no desire to ever leave. He knew that once he got here getting a job would be difficult (which if was), that he would be lucky to get a job in his field right awayf(his first job was loading trucks at Walmart), he knew the Muslim and Middle Eastern community here is virtually non-exisitant(we live in NH), that he would be the step fatther to my 2 teenage boys, that my family lives out of state and we aren't very close, he knew life in general would just be a lot more difficult. He is from a very wealthy family, he never wanted for anything, he never cooked or cleaned(I keep telling him I want a live in housekeeper like his mom ). He didn't care about giving it all up, he just wanted to be with me. We honestly never think about the age difference, we are too busy living life to even give it a second thought. None of our family and friends think twice about it either. We are just Iike any other married couple, we just happen to have an age difference. There is never a day that passes where we don't tell each other how lucky we are to have each other. We are truly happy....I love him with all of my heart.

My dad and step mom are coming up from Massachusetts for dinner tonight. My dad is having surgery for an abdominal aortic aneurism on Friday, my husband wanted to have them over because my dad's recovery will be long and wants to spend family time with him. Time for me to finish preparing the meal, I hope they like middle eastern food, hubby wanted me to prepare something they have never tried.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Ack, a triple A. I hope he has a safe surgery, and an easy recovery. Have a good dinner and visit!

[American Woman 75 21]

I felt very much the same in terms of bringing my husband here. My ex husband has zero ethics or morals( he stole 100k from my brother who he was in business with, in turn we lost everything including the house we built, a story for another day). I was interested in my now husband because of his character and ethics, among many other reasons. I will also say that it was my idea to visit my husband in Jordan the first time, he never asked me. He wasn't one of those men you hear of who latches on to an Ameican woman and never lets go, he had never given a thought before we met in real life, about coming or wanting to be in the US. He had a very successful career, many friends, a wonderful, close and loving family that he had no desire to ever leave. He knew that once he got here getting a job would be difficult (which if was), that he would be lucky to get a job in his field right awayf(his first job was loading trucks at Walmart), he knew the Muslim and Middle Eastern community here is virtually non-exisitant(we live in NH), that he would be the step fatther to my 2 teenage boys, that my family lives out of state and we aren't very close, he knew life in general would just be a lot more difficult. He is from a very wealthy family, he never wanted for anything, he never cooked or cleaned(I keep telling him I want a live in housekeeper like his mom ). He didn't care about giving it all up, he just wanted to be with me. We honestly never think about the age difference, we are too busy living life to even give it a second thought. None of our family and friends think twice about it either. We are just Iike any other married couple, we just happen to have an age difference. There is never a day that passes where we don't tell each other how lucky we are to have each other. We are truly happy....I love him with all of my heart.

My dad and step mom are coming up from Massachusetts for dinner tonight. My dad is having surgery for an abdominal aortic aneurism on Friday, my husband wanted to have them over because my dad's recovery will be long and wants to spend family time with him. Time for me to finish preparing the meal, I hope they like middle eastern food, hubby wanted me to prepare something they have never tried.

You have a beautiful love story, Mimolicious. Your writings are always so inspirational. I hope all goes well for your father on Friday, I wish him and your family the best.

[JLSBMF 16]

Good luck Cathi with your dad - inshallah all goes well. Yes your writings and our chats have been very inspirational to so many of us.

will keep your dad in my prayers.

hugs - jen

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Oh, I know the feeling of devastation you're describing - and you choose exactly the right word to call it. I had that when I was cheated on only weeks before my wedding, in my 20s. It's horrible, and I'm not minimizing it at all. I'm just saying that I don't want to be a wallflower while life passes me by because I'm too scared to take a chance. ANY love can end up devastating me, so what should I do, become a nun? No.

But implying that all or even most Algerian men are a certain way is no different than how the white American women were warned against marrying black American men, no matter if they were doctors or lawyers or successful entrepreneurs. These Algerians are not animals, Beauty. They are men. They are individuals. They are not all out to 'get' us.

I agree, it's wise to be careful. And like I said earlier, I am doing my homework, and I have my eyes wide open. But so far, I have not found anything to make me run. I've been scared shitless from some of the horror stories I've read, such as what you've been through - but in my own unique relationship, I have so far not seen any reason to run...or even doubt. That is to say, yes, I found some things that were questionable to believe, so I questioned them - using various methods, and found that everything was ok after all. If I had found something to NOT be ok, then I would have said FTS and walked.

Not to say that to end up with a broken heart is impossible, because that would be true for ANY relationship. But I have seen no signs of dishonesty or high strangeness that would lead me to suspect that he's anything but sincere. If I did - I would dig into it. And if I dug into it and didn't find a reasonable explanation, I would end it, and move on.

Can I ask you, Beauty for Ashes, in hindsight...what were the red flags your ex might have given you early on? What things might have been clear signs that it was a scam, before he got here? How did it start out between the two of you?

I also want to say, about the other Algerians not being forthright about Algerian scams...that was also not what I experienced. I talked to a lot of other Algerian men in their 20s, and asked them a lot of questions in a very direct way. They answered in the same fashion. They told me that many Algerian men think American women are whores, and they are only interested in getting a Green Card, or the women meeting up with them in Tunisia for a screw. They DID tell me that. They told me everybody wants to get out of there, there is no future, no opportunity. The life is hard. I did not encounter anyone trying to sugarcoat anything.

But what's true for one, or some, or even most...does not mean for all. Every person has to be evaluated as an individual. So, yes, these stories are scary, to be sure. No doubt. That's why I keep my eyes wide open, I'm on the alert, I do my homework, and I'm not afraid to walk if need be. And it wouldn't take much, either. Just one sign. Just one. But it would have to be a good one.

I am sooo sorry about what happened to you. I am soooo sorry. Your ex sounds like a mindless, thoughtless, caca for brains lunatic. I wish I could pee in his open eyes, as my Italian friend says when she's 'pissed' - hahaa.

But again, I have to wonder....how did you not see this in his character from the beginning? Or did you? That's what I'd really like to hear about - is what happened in the beginning. Did you have deep and meaningful discussions about life? Did he show empathy when you were sad or something bothered you? Did he laugh off your troubles like they were all trivial nonsense? Did you catch him in lies or inconsistencies? What happened? And how long were you 'together' before you met?

You do the best you can. If you get hurt, you do your best to pick yourself up and start over again. I think one of hardest thing for me was feeling like I could start over. You really get it from all sides. I have had american women in good marriages with arabs kind of tell me , well you are responsible for bringing him here.. much like someone just did. I have had arab people feel very uncomfortable and try really hard to apologise. Believe it or not, the Algerian community has been one of the best helps to me. And my boyfriend. He saw my ex is action, tantruming. He saw the things in my house my ex smashed and put tables back together that were broken. He helped put me back together. I had a table my ex had smashed in another room with the door closed. My Algerian boyfriend has glued tables back together. He kind of glued me back together.

My dad died in July so it just compounded alot of the pain I went through getting out. I met my boyfriend about 3 and a half months after my divorce was final.

He has been a huge support to me. He has cleaned up alot of the mess my ex made all over my life and my family. To be honest with you, only another Algerian really could have understood the nightmare I lived and he himself has even told me that he knew people like my ex back in Algeria and I was ill equipped to deal with the criminal family I married into. Two of my exs cousins are drug dealers in Paris. The whole lot of them were bad bad bad Orani news.The man I am with now is from a rural eastern algerian family from the state of Setif which is not just a city, its a state and hes from the rural part. Hes gentle and kind. He helps me with things. Even if we do not stay together and we have been together about 8 months only , he still was the biggest help in helping me get through and get over the pain of what my ex did to me. He even asked me HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU PUT UP WITH HIS ?

to this day I do not why I sat so paralysed unable to move or get out. All I know is that another Algerian was truly my savior getting out of the nightmare I married into .

I am grateful to the man that came into my life and I will always be grateful to him for helping me get back to myself after a very very awful 6 years of sheer hell.