Please Help!!! Full Time Housewife Applying for Citizenship

[Homemaker 0]

For one thing with most marriage laws, from the date you tie the knot, you both become liable for each other debts. But if one of the spouses has debts before that marriage, other spouse is also indirectly liable as that money comes out of the familly income. And how can an immigrant have previous US tax liabilities when they first came here?

One good question I can't even think of a valid answer is why her spouse insisted on filing a separate return, he is evidently supporting her and just paying a lot more taxes. Must have his reasons for doing so, but can see where the USCIS would really question this as a valid marriage.

In our experience with marriage, USCIS wasn't the bit interested in our love life, but really interested in their definition of a good marriage, we were paying taxes, bills, and owned joint property together as a valid marriage.

One option the OP has is simply wait another two years where are this marriage proof is no longer a requirement. But kind of sense they are having some marriage problems they would have to work out themselves. Or maybe her husband is dense on tax laws.

Hello. Thank you also for the reply. You are correct and that's been our attitude about the marriage, too. We are not having any marital problems (by far) so that is certainly not the reason why. I, the Mrs., do not have any problem to be in "anything" and "everything" with my husband including taxes (and any financial woes if any) however, he does not want me to be in it (especially I am the one handling/managing our finances).

Edited June 20, 2013 by Homemaker

[bigdog 376]

If you have no income, you should get more of a deduction than single, tax debt is another matter. You might want to seek the advice of a tax professional.

[NickD 202]

There is no law that you have to file jointly and can even file seperately to satisfy the USCIS. And this could have been done by you filing a return even with zero income. As a matter of fact, the IRS promotes this, under certain circumstances can even receive a refund even though you didn't pay any taxes. Like a child tax credit.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

For one thing with most marriage laws, from the date you tie the knot, you both become liable for each other debts. But if one of the spouses has debts before that marriage, other spouse is also indirectly liable as that money comes out of the familly income. And how can an immigrant have previous US tax liabilities when they first came here?

One good question I can't even think of a valid answer is why her spouse insisted on filing a separate return, he is evidently supporting her and just paying a lot more taxes. Must have his reasons for doing so, but can see where the USCIS would really question this as a valid marriage.

In our experience with marriage, USCIS wasn't the bit interested in our love life, but really interested in their definition of a good marriage, we were paying taxes, bills, and owned joint property together as a valid marriage.

One option the OP has is simply wait another two years where are this marriage proof is no longer a requirement. But kind of sense they are having some marriage problems they would have to work out themselves. Or maybe her husband is dense on tax laws.

I haven't found this to be true. Perhaps you can share your source.

[aaron2020 11,651]

I haven't found this to be true. Perhaps you can share your source.

NickD is wrong.

There is absolutely no marriage law in any state where spouses automatically become responsible each other debts immediately upon marriage.

Basic property law - debts and assets acquired before marriage are separate property. This means each retains his or her property rights after marriage.

Generrally, assets accumulated during the marriage through joint property or wages are available to the creditors of the debtor spouse.

NickD will not be able to provide you a link because no such law exists.

[Rich and Wen 101]

Hello, just adding my two cents here. I worked for H&R Block for 15 years, and I could never understand why someone would choose to file as Married/Separate (MFS). Whatever tax debts there are will not go away, and MFS status is the worst bracket you could have. This means you pay more tax, which means the tax bills go away much slower. Also, certain tax credits (EITC, for example) are not available for MFS filers.

Generally, a couple will use MFS if both have jobs and one has previous liabilities, such as delinquent taxes or student loans or child support. This way the "innocent spouse" (and yes, that IS an IRS term)will not have their tax refund seized to pay for the liabilities of the other.

I always told my clients to go ahead and file Married/Joint (MFJ) so that they get a larger refund, and the delinquencies of the one partner go away quicker. But some would want to file MFS anyway, and that is their right to do so.

In your case, since you have no income, you do not have a refund for the IRS to seize, so I would go ahead and file MFJ, so that the water will clear quicker.

Hope this helps!!

[NickD 202]

Not in marriage laws, check the divorce laws in your state or country. Don't get me started on this subject, in particular in states or countries what they have is no fault divorce laws. Even in Venezuela with no fault divorce laws, although her ex deserted her, and she paid off the mortgages, he was entiled for that. And even ran up high debts than left the country, she was held responsible for that as well.

Even though I was first legally separated from my ex, with a clause, we are no longer responsible for each others debts. She ran up another $16,000.00 in debts, she didn't have a cent to pay those back, so they came back to me. Found a hidden state statue that said regardless, was responsible for her debts until the final divorce. Contacted the very best attorneys in the state to fight it, just said, will only cost you more, just pay it. Can't even begin to tell you how I was teed off. But I had to pay it.

New wife is okay, but she did cosign for a student loan for her daughter I didn't know about. Received a letter that I was responsible for that debt, wasn't that much, had the cash, didn't want to get struct with interest, so paid it off. Just suggested to my wife, we talk these things over first.

In the state of Wisconsin, and other states, no such thing as a prenuptial agreement.

Be darn careful before you state someone is wrong, but in this case, wish I was.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Not in marriage laws, check the divorce laws in your state or country. Don't get me started on this subject, in particular in states or countries what they have is no fault divorce laws. Even in Venezuela with no fault divorce laws, although her ex deserted her, and she paid off the mortgages, he was entiled for that. And even ran up high debts than left the country, she was held responsible for that as well.

Even though I was first legally separated from my ex, with a clause, we are no longer responsible for each others debts. She ran up another $16,000.00 in debts, she didn't have a cent to pay those back, so they came back to me. Found a hidden state statue that said regardless, was responsible for her debts until the final divorce. Contacted the very best attorneys in the state to fight it, just said, will only cost you more, just pay it. Can't even begin to tell you how I was teed off. But I had to pay it.

New wife is okay, but she did cosign for a student loan for her daughter I didn't know about. Received a letter that I was responsible for that debt, wasn't that much, had the cash, didn't want to get struct with interest, so paid it off. Just suggested to my wife, we talk these things over first.

In the state of Wisconsin, and other states, no such thing as a prenuptial agreement.

Be darn careful before you state someone is wrong, but in this case, wish I was.

You stated that the married couple are immediate responsible for each others' separate debts immediately after marriage. Now you bring up divorce laws. So if the couple do not get divorce and divorce laws don't affect them, is a married couple still responsible for each others' debts acquired before marriage?

The debt your ex-wife acquired after your separation agreement does not matter to third party creditors.

I'm going to assume that your ex ran up credit cards that was in both your names. Cards that you obtained and agreed to joint liability for the debt in the credit card contract. You and your wife tried to contract around this in your separation agreement. As far as the law is concern, your agreement does not alter the contract with the credit card company. You got shafted because you tried to do something not permitted by the joint credit card contract.

Regardless of how your ex ran up $16,000 of debt, the debt was acquired during the marriage. This was not a separate debt acquired before or after the marriage. It occurred during the marriage.

Big difference between a debt acquire during the marriage and one acquired before marriage.

Edited June 20, 2013 by aaron2020

[Nikita2Charles 32]

Let your husband know you guys are due for a Backdated refund, since you are at home it's in his or should i say both of your advantage to file Married Jointly, H&R block even have a promo where they will do go through your back taxes and refil for you.

That shouldn't be a major hold for your citizenship but for a financial point of view do it right away since it's going to be in your advantage having a few thousand of $$ on the way from IRS.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Hello, just adding my two cents here. I worked for H&R Block for 15 years, and I could never understand why someone would choose to file as Married/Separate (MFS). Whatever tax debts there are will not go away, and MFS status is the worst bracket you could have. This means you pay more tax, which means the tax bills go away much slower. Also, certain tax credits (EITC, for example) are not available for MFS filers.

Generally, a couple will use MFS if both have jobs and one has previous liabilities, such as delinquent taxes or student loans or child support. This way the "innocent spouse" (and yes, that IS an IRS term)will not have their tax refund seized to pay for the liabilities of the other.

I always told my clients to go ahead and file Married/Joint (MFJ) so that they get a larger refund, and the delinquencies of the one partner go away quicker. But some would want to file MFS anyway, and that is their right to do so.

In your case, since you have no income, you do not have a refund for the IRS to seize, so I would go ahead and file MFJ, so that the water will clear quicker.

Hope this helps!!

This is one point of view - file MFJ to get a bigger refund to retire the tax liability. However, the entire refund could be seized.

For some families, a tax refund is part of their budget and they need the money.

For some families, it is better to them to keep the tax liability and get a refund back from one spouse and the refund for the debtor spouse to be seized.

The idea is debts don't matter and its better to get a refund than none.

-------

I don't want to get into a tax discussion on the merits of filing separately.

MFS makes sense sometimes. Liabilities and asset protection are two of a myriad of reasons why it makes sense to file separately even though the tax liability is higher than MFJ.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Hello, just adding my two cents here. I worked for H&R Block for 15 years, and I could never understand why someone would choose to file as Married/Separate (MFS). Whatever tax debts there are will not go away, and MFS status is the worst bracket you could have. This means you pay more tax, which means the tax bills go away much slower. Also, certain tax credits (EITC, for example) are not available for MFS filers.

Generally, a couple will use MFS if both have jobs and one has previous liabilities, such as delinquent taxes or student loans or child support. This way the "innocent spouse" (and yes, that IS an IRS term)will not have their tax refund seized to pay for the liabilities of the other.

I always told my clients to go ahead and file Married/Joint (MFJ) so that they get a larger refund, and the delinquencies of the one partner go away quicker. But some would want to file MFS anyway, and that is their right to do so.

In your case, since you have no income, you do not have a refund for the IRS to seize, so I would go ahead and file MFJ, so that the water will clear quicker.

Hope this helps!!

With IRSs innocent spouse scheme, even after you file and the tax refund is intercepted one can still get the portion that belongs to the injured Spouse back.

Good info though.

Not in marriage laws, check the divorce laws in your state or country. Don't get me started on this subject, in particular in states or countries what they have is no fault divorce laws. Even in Venezuela with no fault divorce laws, although her ex deserted her, and she paid off the mortgages, he was entiled for that. And even ran up high debts than left the country, she was held responsible for that as well.

Even though I was first legally separated from my ex, with a clause, we are no longer responsible for each others debts. She ran up another $16,000.00 in debts, she didn't have a cent to pay those back, so they came back to me. Found a hidden state statue that said regardless, was responsible for her debts until the final divorce. Contacted the very best attorneys in the state to fight it, just said, will only cost you more, just pay it. Can't even begin to tell you how I was teed off. But I had to pay it.

New wife is okay, but she did cosign for a student loan for her daughter I didn't know about. Received a letter that I was responsible for that debt, wasn't that much, had the cash, didn't want to get struct with interest, so paid it off. Just suggested to my wife, we talk these things over first.

In the state of Wisconsin, and other states, no such thing as a prenuptial agreement.

Be darn careful before you state someone is wrong, but in this case, wish I was.

Listen, and without going too far off topic, I agreed to some things during my divorce so that I can just get rid of my Ex as quickly as I could. That doesn't maek those things a lawful requirement.

Sir, the only debts that you're responsible for are those that you personally signed for. You can never be forced to assume any debts except for joints.

I still continue to ask for your sources.

You stated that the married couple are immediate responsible for each others' separate debts immediately after marriage. Now you bring up divorce laws. So if the couple do not get divorce and divorce laws don't affect them, is a married couple still responsible for each others' debts acquired before marriage?

The debt your ex-wife acquired after your separation agreement does not matter to third party creditors.

I'm going to assume that your ex ran up credit cards that was in both your names. Cards that you obtained and agreed to joint liability for the debt in the credit card contract. You and your wife tried to contract around this in your separation agreement. As far as the law is concern, your agreement does not alter the contract with the credit card company. You got shafted because you tried to do something not permitted by the joint credit card contract.

Regardless of how your ex ran up $16,000 of debt, the debt was acquired during the marriage. This was not a separate debt acquired before or after the marriage. It occurred during the marriage.

Big difference between a debt acquire during the marriage and one acquired before marriage.

This is why I asked for sources, I find the allegatriosn of instantly assuming debts with marraige to be a fallacy.

[Homemaker 0]

Thank you everyone for all the replies. I really appreciate the advise you all have given me. My spouse and I have discussed more about this and I may go ahead and file for a "no income" tax returns but, as I have stated in my previous post, I cannot yet file any ITR "jointly" based on my husband's current situation. He wants to keep me out of the hole that he's in right now and again, that is the reason why he's been doing the "married filing separately". I wish I could do MFJ but I can't.

Before I begin (filing), I have another question I would like to ask and I am hoping someone is/would be able to provide me more direct and clear answer.

My husband is positive that I am not required to file tax returns as I do not have a job nor income. He is also adamant that rather than I file tax, that I can use/send his copies along with my N-400 application. Both our names with the same address are on the docs.

My question is; Am I gonna be just fine if I use my husband's copy of ITRs for my N-400?

Please help! This whole thing is really stressing me out and is driving me crazy. Please help me.

Thank you.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Homemaker

[christeen 966]

I have always heard that they require you to have filed taxes regardless of income or not... This demonstrates that you are a "tax paying" participant in the system and will probably continue to be as a citizen. They asked for our proof of filing as a condition of approval, I would be astonished if they. Accepted. Yours without this... IMO

[NickD 202]

Thank you everyone for all the replies. I really appreciate the advise you all have given me. My spouse and I have discussed more about this and I may go ahead and file for a "no income" tax returns but, as I have stated in my previous post, I cannot yet file any ITR "jointly" based on my husband's current situation. He wants to keep me out of the hole that he's in right now and again, that is the reason why he's been doing the "married filing separately". I wish I could do MFJ but I can't.

Before I begin (filing), I have another question I would like to ask and I am hoping someone is/would be able to provide me more direct and clear answer.

My husband is positive that I am not required to file tax returns as I do not have a job nor income. He is also adamant that rather than I file tax, that I can use/send his copies along with my N-400 application. Both our names with the same address are on the docs.

My question is; Am I gonna be just fine if I use my husband's copy of ITRs for my N-400?

Please help! This whole thing is really stressing me out and is driving me crazy. Please help me.

Thank you.

Just another situation where the financial status of a spouse can greatly affect the other spouse. Lets say your spouse is an alcholic, goes out and gambles away your home. While you are perfectly innocent, you still end up in the street. And with our really crazy no fault divorce laws, if there is only one can of beans left, that terrible spouse will stil get a half a can of those beans.

Even if your marriage does not end up in a divorce, you and your kids if any, would still end up in the street with a spouse like this.

I assume your husband owes back taxes, the only way for him to get out of that besides paying it back is to die. But any assets with his name on it will be recovered by the IRS. Hopefully a court of law would have some mercy on you. By not using you and other marriage deductions, like twice the standard deduction, would have meant paying off that debt much quicker. It has to be paid, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

And you certainly can feel how this debt is affecting you. If you really love him, could try to find a job and help him pay that off. With a new start in life, but like either my wife's ex or mine, divorce may be the only solution. Neither of them wanted to work, and both blew money faster than we could earn it. This is how our relationship started, we both cared about our kids, was one of the very few males in my state that actually got full custody of my remaining two minor kids. Still had to pay her alimony, but got her to agree to a one time payoff. Was so deep in debt, thought I would never see the light of day. But without her, got debt free in five years. And even saved a bundle of money after that.

Was and still is wonderful to meet a woman like my wife, cares about her kids, and works hard. She also received full custody.

Being a self employed person, worse part of taxes is coming up with the numbers. But with those only a matter of minutes to learn whether we should file separately or jointly. Not even close, but even if it did work in the favor of filing separately, said would still file jointly to keep the USCIS happy.

We gained very little by filing for the three year, wife could only vote for candidates that were already selected before they came to our state. And still has to maintain her foreign passport to visit her home country. Only motivation was that stupid long delays in that I-751 and the work we had to go through to keep her here legally so she could work and travel. Could have just waited another two years and avoid all that marriage nonsense,

Define that N-400 with marriage as a combination of both the AOS and ROC stages, same old stuff all over again.

[Autumnal 25]

I did not work the first year I was in the US, waiting on my green card, work permit, and the rest. I did an unpaid internship and that was it. On the advice of a senior tax adviser at the IRS, and H&R Block, I filed MFJ with my (now ex-)husband. It really wasn't an option not to do so in my eyes. USCIS's instructions for tax returns at all stages of the immigration process (AOS, naturalization) make clear I need my own tax record, and had my spouse filed MFS or Single, I would have no record of my own.

Can you chance not having your own tax returns? Sure. Would I advise it? Not in a million years. You need your own papertrail for USCIS to follow in cases like this.

You're not too late to make an amendment for the past three years. All those 0s are going to be quick if you file for yourself in whatever bracket or category. Whether or not you choose to go MFS or MFJ is up to you and your spouse. I think it needs to be reiterated that you should be filing for your taxes even if you make not a jot of income, so that you're on record with the IRS. You have them in. Since you have no income or assets to speak of, it should be a breeze to plug all the numbers into a 1099EZ form; use the online H&R Block, TurboTax, Quicken, whatever software; or take it to a tax professional.

Honestly I don't know that you qualify for showing the tax records for the past three years with married filing separately, if your income will show up in its entirety or not. At the end of the day, USCIS and the immigration officer get to make the final call. Your lack of records is going to likely be of much interest. Why not cut that concern off at the pass by filing the paperwork (even MFS), submitting them, and including a note they're late because you were unaware that you had to file due to the $0 income bit.