Accidental Claim to US Citizenship back in 1988

[soulprovider915 4]

Hello to all. I'm helping someone with the N-400 process. Then she hit me with it. Back in 1988 this girl thought that since she's married that she's automatically a US citizen. So while living in PA she applied for a gun carry permit and received it as a US citizen even though she was still a legal resident. It has since expired on 02/2013. I normally don't get stuck but this one threw me for a loop. PA does issue carry permits to legal residents which she has been since she was nine. Should she try to fix this with the state or in Section 10 just check yes and offer an explanation. I'm worried about that one. As far as I know she never applied for work as a US citizen.

Thanks in advance!!!

Edited March 11, 2013 by soulprovider915

[Villanelle 4,122]

I dont know what you mean by should she try to fix it with the state? How could she fix it with the state? She checked off the box stating she was a citizen and received the carry permit. Its since expired. I really dont see anyway that she can go back and ask them to correct a permit that has since expired. Perhaps if the permit was still active she might have had a shot at going back to the state and saying there is something wrong with my permit- it was issued incorrectly but I dont see how now they can fix it (?)

Plus I believe the state and federal government may have additional and severe penalties for applying for and receiving a concealed carry permit with false information.

This may be a can of worms your friend may not want to open. It may be opened either way, because if it comes up due to the n-400, it might be something the Officer has no choice but to disclose to the appropriate authorities... I really do not know.

(Ill try to find some links about it and post back)

[Darnell 8,478]

When she called the HelpDesk with the State of PA - what was said to her about this, when she asked about 'how to correct' ?

[Villanelle 4,122]

Ok apparently in PA its not such a big deal to check off the wrong box on an application like that. Its considered "false statements" or "false swearing" . The person could be prosecuted. Its impossible to know what the penalty would be, as each incident would be judged on the circumstances and individual involved. False swearing falls under Sections 4903 and 4904 of the Crimes Code are graded as 2nd-degree misdemeanors.

The fine is $1,000.

(its really unfortunate your friend did this, as the form had clear options, right next to each other, for are you a citizen or an alien, and you either check citizen or enter your A# and country you were born in.) Also as a side thought, if she had a permit, did she not buy a firearm? Did she also check citizen on those forms as well? Because its almost the same exact form.. You either check citizen and nothing else, or check alien and provide your a# and card as proof. (she may have made this claim more then once- which complicates things greatly if she did.) When ever you purchase a firearm, they call it in to the FBI database and its logged. They (the person calling it in) say where you are born (among other things to verify your identity) and if you claim to be a citizen or alien.

§ 4904. Unsworn falsification to authorities.

(a) In general.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the

second degree if, with intent to mislead a public servant in

performing his official function, he:

(1) makes any written false statement which he does not

believe to be true;

(2) submits or invites reliance on any writing which he

knows to be forged, altered or otherwise lacking in

authenticity; or

(3) submits or invites reliance on any sample, specimen,

map, boundary mark, or other object which he knows to be

false.

(b) Statements "under penalty".--A person commits a

misdemeanor of the third degree if he makes a written false

statement which he does not believe to be true, on or pursuant

to a form bearing notice, authorized by law, to the effect that

false statements made therein are punishable.

© Perjury provisions applicable.--Section 4902© through

of this title (relating to perjury) applies to this section.

(d) Penalty.--In addition to any other penalty that may be

imposed, a person convicted under this section shall be

sentenced to pay a fine of at least $1,000.

(Nov. 29, 2006, P.L.1481, No.168, eff. 60 days)

[Darnell 8,478]

ya, the intent bit is what will make this 'not a misdemeanor' IMO.

Seriously, call into the PA HelpDesk, get it sussed out over the phone for 'what to do' on the remedy. I'm betting it's something as simple as an affadavit.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Accidental Claim to US Citizenship back in 1988

It is not an "accidental" claim, but a deliberate act, although at best an ignorant act at the time. The question is, did she obtain a benefit by claiming to be a US Citizen, for which she would otherwise be not entitled? Darnell's suggestion is the best, and easiest - get an affidavit from the state that says no harm, no foul, and have that handy. Chances are if she was issued a gun permit, and they did a name check, there is a record of that in a Federal database somewhere. If the Feds put two and two together (not very likely), there is a chance it could bite her if it was not disclosed beforehand.

[Villanelle 4,122]

The problem I see is the permit is typically valid for 5 YEARS. The OP is stating the permit recently expired in 2/2013. Meaning this was not just something she just filled out incorrectly. This was something she filled out incorrectly probably 5 years ago (and might have purchased additional firearms incorrectly claiming to be a citizen additionally during that time compounding the problem)

Theres no indication in his post when she discovered she was not a citizen and stopped making the claim. Or if that was the only form in relation to firearms where she made that claim, because logically if she filled out one form incorrectly, she filled out multiple forms relating to firearms incorrectly. You dont (and most likely can not) obtain a concealed permit unless you own a gun (or borrowed one from somebody because you need your own gun to take the class to obtain the permit), and purchasing a gun requires a similar form- where you either check off citizen or alien and provide your a# and country.

I dont know how likely it is that the "state" is going to correct an expired permit that was initially issued 5 years ago. (They might correct it and make her pay a fine for providing false information, or she might find it easier to get them to renew it (?) with the correct information and perhaps not fine her because it was an innocent mistake?)

There is no general number to call. She would have to contact the Sherriffs office for assistance or the chief of police in her city. (as if she was going to renew it) and explain she had provided false information when it was issued and see about getting it corrected.

As explained there is a record of the permit in the FBI database that will include her claim of citizenship. So Im pretty sure USCIS will be able to see it. Even if she gets it corrected, Im inclined to believe USCIS will be able to see it. So she does need to disclose it.

The benefit was not something she wouldnt have otherwise been entitled to though.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

The comprehensive background check (FBI) and the comprehensive database check of all federal and state databases will have this pop up, guaranteed! The only viable defense against false claim of citizenship is if the person actually believed, and had a good reason to believe, that they were a US citizen. This is not the case here. I would play it safe and not go to the Interview. It's better to live happily in the United States as a Green Card holder than losing everything and being deported back to the home country.

[w8inglongtime 29]

Hello to all. I'm helping someone with the N-400 process. Then she hit me with it. Back in 1988 this girl thought that since she's married that she's automatically a US citizen. So while living in PA she applied for a gun carry permit and received it as a US citizen even though she was still a legal resident. It has since expired on 02/2013. I normally don't get stuck but this one threw me for a loop. PA does issue carry permits to legal residents which she has been since she was nine. Should she try to fix this with the state or in Section 10 just check yes and offer an explanation. I'm worried about that one. As far as I know she never applied for work as a US citizen.

Thanks in advance!!!

The only way she could have accidentally claimed to be a US citizen was if she was a child. Applying for a gun permit means she was an adult and the IO will think she most likely knew what she was doing. The IO will expect adults to know if they are a US citizen or not. This is a sticky situation. Unless she absolutely has to be a US citizen for some reason, maybe she should thread on safe grounds and stay as a LPR. I want to believe falsely claiming to be a US citizen is NOT a forgivable offense as far as USCIS are concerned. Maybe others have experienced where it worked and may chime in. Good luck to your friend. Hope it works out for her.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

It's not what PA law thinks that matters. It's the whole "false claim to USC thing". it's one of the worst things a person can do.

She either doesn't go to the interview and withdraws her application... or he attends the interview to roll the dice. They will know about it, for sure, so she needs to disclose it when they ask her "have you ever claimed to be a USC" she needs to admit she realised that she'd been ticking the wrong box and hope for the best.

Honestly I'd meet with an immigration lawyer and see what they think... but really, she's kinda screwed. It's bad.

[soulprovider915 4]

I'll check with her again. The permit was definitely issued in 1988. She said it had expired in February 2013. I asked where it is now and she said she didn't know. So now I have a big doubt that she even has a clue as to what is going on here. It kind of vouches for her stupidity in thinking that she was a citizen. I'll ask her about employment records. If she put anything on those it's over for me. Yes someone can really be this stupid. Capri mentioned about when did she discover she wasn't a citizen. That's why I posted here. I didn't even think of that. To reiterate she could have received the permit in the state as a legal resident. So she didn't really do anything that gave her an advantage as a citizen. The good news is is that she has no kids. The stupid genes will stop with her. :-)

[Villanelle 4,122]

The problem Im having with this is concealed carry permits are valid for 5 years. If it was issued in 88 it would have expired in 93. Would have been renewed. 93-98. Renewed. 98-03. Renewed. 03-08. Renewed. 08-13.

That means she had it issued once falsely and renewed it four times falsely. So does that make it ONE false claim of citizenship or FIVE?

It depends on how you look at it.

And again it leaves the further question of when did the person realize they werent a citizen and if they made additional claims of being a citizen in relation to purchasing firearms (which will be documented) since 88.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The stupid genes will stop with her. :-)

Off Topic: Makes you wonder how a responsible government could allow stupid people to have guns, let alone a concealed carry permit.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

Hello to all. I'm helping someone with the N-400 process. Then she hit me with it. Back in 1988 this girl thought that since she's married that she's automatically a US citizen. So while living in PA she applied for a gun carry permit and received it as a US citizen even though she was still a legal resident. It has since expired on 02/2013. I normally don't get stuck but this one threw me for a loop. PA does issue carry permits to legal residents which she has been since she was nine. Should she try to fix this with the state or in Section 10 just check yes and offer an explanation. I'm worried about that one. As far as I know she never applied for work as a US citizen.

Thanks in advance!!!

but related.

I recently learn of a woman in deportation procedures for claiming to be a citizen. How? She was sent a voter registration card, her husband -a USC- dutifully encourage her to register and the reposnsibilities as a 'citizen' to vote and participate in the democratic process. Her husband completed the form, she just signed, trusting her husband, a USC would make her aware of any issues.

My own wife did not have it clear she is not a citizen yet, just a GC holder; as she was asking to go get a US passport. I just happen to know better; but I'd say not everyone is as well informed. Many (and that includes a USC married or related to a GC holder as in the case above) don't know the difference.

Not the same case here, but I'd think there are circumstances that could/should be forgiven by USCIS or at least be decided on an analysis of the circumstances. Only when filing for citizenship it becomes apparent for many that they were not citizens.

At minimum, USCIS should make it very explicit to the new immigrants that they are not citizens, the same way they do inform of the removal of conditions.

[Sveta & Ron 23]

maybe my math is messed up help me get on track members

The permit was definitely issued in 1988

It has since expired on 02/2013

permit is typically valid for 5 YEARS.

88 till 2013 i think little more then 5 years?