Doubts part II

[jordanianprincess 0]

I think you misunderstood what we said. We don't want to start gossip or anything, we just want the list to be accurate and maybe shorten it down a little. We're not going to go looking for people who no longer post to ask them if they were involved in fraud... that's not the point. The point is to remove people who maybe haven't been around in the last year. I don't think that would hurt!

There are people who have been on the list more than 1 year who are facing some difficult times. They don't post a lot, but they're definitely still around ! I get PMs from time to time from some of them.

But certainly if you know for sure that someone wants to be removed from the list, or is no longer interested in pursuing a visa process, just PM me !

-MK

Thats what we meant. If someone has been unactive for lets say 1 year, they probebly forgot all about VJ.

[Bosco 1]

I don't think this should be a red flag. I think a bigger red flag would be a religious Muslim man marrying a woman who is not religious. If a Muslim is to marry a Jewish or Christian woman, she is supposed to be pious and chaste. They may be going about it differently, but they are both worshiping/respecting/honoring God.

Similarly, something that concerns me is when a religious Muslim man doesn't insist on having an Islamic marriage (there could still be a civil marriage or one that pleases his wife as well). I have heard more than one Muslim man say the reason for this is that they don't really consider themselves married without the Islamic marriage, so while they may be sinning by "fornicating", they don't feel the normal obligations they would to a "real" wife. I know a man who is married to a woman here and has said he will never have an Islamic marriage with his wife here because then he would feel bad when he leaves her. Obviously this is a solid rule, but when this is the case with other factors, I start to wonder.

I don't classify myself under any religion in particular but I do believe in God. I do not feel comfortable changing myself just because Hicham is Muslim- I would not convert to Islam to please him. He wouldn't be pleased if I converted to Islam for that reason and we both strongly believe that one should come into a faith their own way and not feel obligated to do it because of pressure from others. That to me is the wrong reason for becoming religious.

Anyways Hicham wasn't brought up in a strict Muslim environment. His family is very untraditional and open to a lot of things that most families would be opposed to. I don't think our relationship would be the same if he was strict. I respect that he is Muslim and he respects that I believe in God but don't associate myself with a specific religion. We are happy that way and it works for us. I think I would have a hard time if he was very religious such as praying 5 times a day and not being able to use vanilla extract haha. I guess it depends on the couple though.

Oh I have a question though. I know a lot of couples where the man is Muslim, not necessarily strict in Morocco but then he moves to the US and starts doing his prayers 5 times a day and stops drinking alcohol. I asked Hicham and he laughed and said that they are thanking God for getting them to America. What do you guys think about men who come to the US and become much more strict? I think I would be dissapointed if Hicham did that because that is not how I know him. I don't think I would love him less I just think it would be a transition for him and for myself.

Sarah,

I think it is all about consistency. If a man is very religious but doesn't want a religious wedding, it smells fishy. In your case, it is perfectly understandable why that isn't a priority to Hicham. It isn't just about marraige, but if there is any behavior that seems to really stick out, one should wonder why.

There used to be a Yahoo group for the marriages that went bad. I joined out of curiousity. I wanted to see what went wrong and how I could possibly avoid the same things. Most of the problems there were the opposite. The woman thought she was getting a fairly straight laced guy and they came here and went nuts. Starting drinking (some developed drinking problems), some doing some soft drugs, some staying out all night at clubs, cheating when they hadn't even dated back home, etc.

I think people, maybe Muslims in particular, often become more religious as they get older or when they have children.

[mybackpages 0]

Oh I have a question though. I know a lot of couples where the man is Muslim, not necessarily strict in Morocco but then he moves to the US and starts doing his prayers 5 times a day and stops drinking alcohol. I asked Hicham and he laughed and said that they are thanking God for getting them to America. What do you guys think about men who come to the US and become much more strict? I think I would be dissapointed if Hicham did that because that is not how I know him. I don't think I would love him less I just think it would be a transition for him and for myself.

From my experience a lot fo this "more strict" behavior is also the result of the Muslim not even knowing his/her own religion. I have always found it quite beautiful and more than just ironic that the first word reveal by God to the Prophet was "Read". I like to believe God is telling us to read, to get ourselves educated.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I think you misunderstood what we said. We don't want to start gossip or anything, we just want the list to be accurate and maybe shorten it down a little. We're not going to go looking for people who no longer post to ask them if they were involved in fraud... that's not the point. The point is to remove people who maybe haven't been around in the last year. I don't think that would hurt!

There are people who have been on the list more than 1 year who are facing some difficult times. They don't post a lot, but they're definitely still around ! I get PMs from time to time from some of them.

But certainly if you know for sure that someone wants to be removed from the list, or is no longer interested in pursuing a visa process, just PM me !

-MK

Thats what we meant. If someone has been unactive for lets say 1 year, they probebly forgot all about VJ.

Maybe. But the "Doubts" thread is not really the place to discuss it.

-MK

[jordanianprincess 0]

I think you misunderstood what we said. We don't want to start gossip or anything, we just want the list to be accurate and maybe shorten it down a little. We're not going to go looking for people who no longer post to ask them if they were involved in fraud... that's not the point. The point is to remove people who maybe haven't been around in the last year. I don't think that would hurt!

There are people who have been on the list more than 1 year who are facing some difficult times. They don't post a lot, but they're definitely still around ! I get PMs from time to time from some of them.

But certainly if you know for sure that someone wants to be removed from the list, or is no longer interested in pursuing a visa process, just PM me !

-MK

Thats what we meant. If someone has been unactive for lets say 1 year, they probebly forgot all about VJ.

Maybe. But the "Doubts" thread is not really the place to discuss it.

-MK

I agree, it just kinda came up.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Well, you said that interfaith marriages were a red flag IYO because you think that if you marry someone who doesn't share your faith, you must be putting up with it to get something. I understand what you're saying. It is possible that a devout muslim man would only marry a devout Christian woman in order to obtain a greencard. But at the same time, why would the Christian woman marry a muslim man? What is in it for her? Unless you're saying that the type of fraud that this suggests to you would be on the part of both the USC and the foreigner, as in she was paid. If we're talking about one-sided deception on the part of the foreigner, I don't understand how the interfaith issue would come into play.

Actually I didn't specifically say Muslim man / Christian woman... Sarah brought that into it... I said interfaith.

Honestly I was thinking more or less those devout muslim men who would marry a woman (or vice versa) who pretty much doesn't respect/adhere to any religion... but then again how devout would he really be anyway because technically that is against his faith so I guess this is really a moot point anyway

I just wanted to add another thought on this...as we all know the ideas we have in the US, that a man and woman should date for years and possibly live together so they can "test out" what its lilke to be married are unheard of in the Middle East. My fiancee's sisters knew their husbands before they got married, but I doubt any of them could say they were "in love" with their fiancees before they got married (at least in the way we think of love in this country). His one sister told me many times that "If you think you are in love now, wait til you get married, God will give you so much more love." So I think its a commonly held belief over there that love comes after the marriage. Not saying whether this is right or wrong, but just saying that maybe these men aren't exactly "pretending" to be in love, but rather expecting that the real love will come later on...

This is an excellent point. Thank you for posting

dont worry I reported it.. thank you for pointing it out..

It was a joke shon get a grip. Should no one respond to you at all anymore? would that help you feel less offended at everything?

[jordanianprincess 0]

It was a joke shon get a grip. Should no one respond to you at all anymore? would that help you feel less offended at everything?

VP honey, let it go its a pointless battle.

[CarolineM 0]

Too tired to read 10 pages tonight - i'll do it tomorrow, but I agree with John and Marlene - the number I suspect on this site being used - LARGE.

[crazyinEgypt 0]

I always find it interesting how many are quick to point out how so many middle eastern men use women to get their greencard. What about the flip side? What about the stories we hear of asian women doing the same to the men?

Sometimes I do wonder how a person can meet face to face once and then fly to see them, stay for a week or two and then come back and live happiler ever after. That is why I thank God I was able to visit my husband in Egypt many times and then live with him in Egypt for 5 months. You learn something new about each other every day. Truth is we can all say "he didn't use me for a greencard" and those words could come back to slap us in the face.

[morocco4ever 63]

Wow, I had just asked on one thread if we can do this again, and here it is in all 10 page glory!

First off, the comment about the age difference. I do believe that this truly should be a red flag. Not that all relationships like this are fraud, but it should be looked at seriously. Then again, you might see a handsome man with a very large, or very unnatractive woman similarly. It all runs into the same thought. What it boils down to is that it could be fraud, but then again, maybe the man really is in love. Its hard to judge, but I would never think to accuse a relationship as fraud based on superficial things such as these. I don't really know anyone that comes to these board very well, but I must admit there is one I suspect because of personal knowledge of certain instances. I am not going any deeper than that...sorry.

Off subject just a bit, but still relates. I had a friend that did one of the marriages that is just between the couple. He didn't have a job or a place to live, and she married him and took him in. Fed him, clothed him, and gave him everything he wanted as he sat on his lazy A$$ and she worked 2 jobs. Well this guy confided in me, HER best friend no less, that he just needed her help, that he respected her, but didn't love her, and someday hoped to find a woman he really wants to marry.

In the several years they were together he fathered 3 children with 2 different women. Had several affairs. Spent many nights at the clubs and spending the night at a "friends" house. He even hit on me!!! I had had enough of this #######, and told her a sprinkling of what I knew about his true intentions. She wanted proof, so I met with him in private and chatted with him while she was on the phone (of course he didn't know). He spilled everything, so I assumed that now she would know the truth.

Well she told me that she heard it all, so I thought finally she would dump him. No, instead she told him that I told her these things, not that she heard him say it on the phone. He told her that I was lying. And guess who she believed! Twenty plus years of friendship down the toilet. She even stayed with him even though she knew about his children conceved on the side.

The truth is that she didn't want to know the truth, and it destroyed our friendship. I guess it wasn't much of a friendship if she really believes that I would ever make up these stories just to hurt her.

Would I tell again? If I knew them well enough, yes. But I would certainly make sure I knew the facts, not just suspected, and then I would prepare to lose another friendship.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I always find it interesting how many are quick to point out how so many middle eastern men use women to get their greencard. What about the flip side? What about the stories we hear of asian women doing the same to the men?

Sometimes I do wonder how a person can meet face to face once and then fly to see them, stay for a week or two and then come back and live happiler ever after. That is why I thank God I was able to visit my husband in Egypt many times and then live with him in Egypt for 5 months. You learn something new about each other every day. Truth is we can all say "he didn't use me for a greencard" and those words could come back to slap us in the face.

Actually about 7 pages back I pointed out it wasn't only arab men/women.

[PlatyPius 5]

I always find it interesting how many are quick to point out how so many middle eastern men use women to get their greencard. What about the flip side? What about the stories we hear of asian women doing the same to the men?

I think they are both given equal treatment. However, this is the ME/NA forum, so I wouldn't expect to hear as much about US men and Filipino/Thai/Vietnamese/etc women in this thread. It's discussed quite a bit elsewhere on VJ, though.

[crazyinEgypt 0]

I always find it interesting how many are quick to point out how so many middle eastern men use women to get their greencard. What about the flip side? What about the stories we hear of asian women doing the same to the men?

Sometimes I do wonder how a person can meet face to face once and then fly to see them, stay for a week or two and then come back and live happiler ever after. That is why I thank God I was able to visit my husband in Egypt many times and then live with him in Egypt for 5 months. You learn something new about each other every day. Truth is we can all say "he didn't use me for a greencard" and those words could come back to slap us in the face.

Actually about 7 pages back I pointed out it wasn't only arab men/women.

Sorry, I don't have time to read 10 pages.

I always find it interesting how many are quick to point out how so many middle eastern men use women to get their greencard. What about the flip side? What about the stories we hear of asian women doing the same to the men?

I think they are both given equal treatment. However, this is the ME/NA forum, so I wouldn't expect to hear as much about US men and Filipino/Thai/Vietnamese/etc women in this thread. It's discussed quite a bit elsewhere on VJ, though.

I only wanted to point it out because it's mainly the ME/NA gals that get the "warnings"

[jordanianprincess 0]

I always find it interesting how many are quick to point out how so many middle eastern men use women to get their greencard. What about the flip side? What about the stories we hear of asian women doing the same to the men?

Sometimes I do wonder how a person can meet face to face once and then fly to see them, stay for a week or two and then come back and live happiler ever after. That is why I thank God I was able to visit my husband in Egypt many times and then live with him in Egypt for 5 months. You learn something new about each other every day. Truth is we can all say "he didn't use me for a greencard" and those words could come back to slap us in the face.

Actually about 7 pages back I pointed out it wasn't only arab men/women.

Sorry, I don't have time to read 10 pages.

I figured that How's the babies?

[crazyinEgypt 0]

I always find it interesting how many are quick to point out how so many middle eastern men use women to get their greencard. What about the flip side? What about the stories we hear of asian women doing the same to the men?

Sometimes I do wonder how a person can meet face to face once and then fly to see them, stay for a week or two and then come back and live happiler ever after. That is why I thank God I was able to visit my husband in Egypt many times and then live with him in Egypt for 5 months. You learn something new about each other every day. Truth is we can all say "he didn't use me for a greencard" and those words could come back to slap us in the face.

Actually about 7 pages back I pointed out it wasn't only arab men/women.

Sorry, I don't have time to read 10 pages.

I figured that How's the babies?

Babies are great! Keeping us VERY, VERY busy. And he wants more!!!!