2nd 221g from Mumbai

[V+C 9]

Hi VJers,

I was hoping to give you good news, but instead we got another 221g. We received our first 221g and submitted all of the documents that they requested. Then they send us a 2nd 221g for something totally different. This is what the 2nd 221g says:

As per the U.S Consulate, for further consideration will be given to your visa application after you obtain and present the documents listed below:

Submit job offer letter from beneficiary from University of Oregon, exact details of when move from Michigan to Oregon took place, correspondence from University of Oregon to beneficiary regarding his job. Submit complete academic records from beneficiary's F1 PhD program.

You must submit the above documents to the VFS office.

This information has nothing to do with our relationship or income? Why do they need this? This is so frustrating. My Fiance went to school in Michigan, and then moved to Oregon to work at the University. We sent them pay check stubs from the University of Oregon, his W2's, his University of Oregon staff ID card. We sent them addresses of where he lived in Oregon with rental agreement. How can they ask for this stuff also what is the purpose in needing all of this information to approve a Fiance Visa. I am just so frustrated right now.

Any advice or explanation from anyone on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you, Chrystal

[catknit 144]

We received a 2nd 221g from New Delhi [years ago] requesting my entire job history from the age of 16, each boss' info, the company names/addresses/phones - the whole kit and caboodle as they say. Also, they requested a list of all his relatives in the US and their complete work histories including companies/addresses/phones. We believe they were digging to see if I ever worked with any of his family [who are all in India, mind you, but the rest of our case as presented looked a little too fraudy].

Here's the deal - regardless of what laundry list or flaming hoop they throw in front of you, just do it. Don't waste mental and emotional energy on this, just get EXACTLY what is requested and send it in.

Something has them digger deeper - maybe certain things look too convenient or text-book-fraudy. Who knows. But, you won't get any answers or go forward in your case without answering what they ask.

[V+C 9]

We received a 2nd 221g from New Delhi [years ago] requesting my entire job history from the age of 16, each boss' info, the company names/addresses/phones - the whole kit and caboodle as they say. Also, they requested a list of all his relatives in the US and their complete work histories including companies/addresses/phones. We believe they were digging to see if I ever worked with any of his family [who are all in India, mind you, but the rest of our case as presented looked a little too fraudy].

Here's the deal - regardless of what laundry list or flaming hoop they throw in front of you, just do it. Don't waste mental and emotional energy on this, just get EXACTLY what is requested and send it in.

Something has them digger deeper - maybe certain things look too convenient or text-book-fraudy. Who knows. But, you won't get any answers or go forward in your case without answering what they ask.

Thanks for the reply Catnip. I just read your timeline and your story is amazing. You guys went through a lot!! I am sorry for what you went through and I am happy that you guys are now together.

[catknit 144]

See - there is a light at the end of the tunnel - be warned, it may be a really long and weird tunnel

So, I've been thinking about this a little longer. Did he try for an OPT year? No bites at his skills/cv to offer him work?

I think [and this is purely speculation] that maybe the CO might be saying "well, if they are so in love, why didn't he stay on OPT, see the relationship out and then marry and adjust? What's up with the weird going back to India thing???". Again, speculation.

Also, any "weirdness" pertaining to your relationship [ie he was an adviser to you, a boss to you, on a committee that was overseeing any of your work]?

What the Indian consulates LOVE to see and approve without hesitation is a Desi-Desi love or arranged marriage. The guy should be 2+ years older than the woman. Depending on the consulate, there should be an engagement party or other formal get-together. There should be album after album of those horrendous posed photos that make the Glamour Shots from the malls in the '80s look like Pulitzer Prize winning photos.

If going for the CR1, the groom decked out on a white horse or elephant wins CO brownie points...

Once you start to move away from that norm, there needs to be realistic stories behind how things happened in the relationship. This story needs to make sense to the "average joe" who hears it. It seems like from your other information, it did make sense. But....

There is a little something that is making them hesitate - whether or not it's surmountable, only time will tell.

Was there a discrepancy in his G325? [i think that's the form - with the addresses and such?] It would completely blow if they try to nail him on a misrep for a clerical or interview error....but that's the type of info that they are now requesting.

I wish you the best of luck, it seems like Mumbai doesn't sit on cases too long.

[V+C 9]

See - there is a light at the end of the tunnel - be warned, it may be a really long and weird tunnel

So, I've been thinking about this a little longer. Did he try for an OPT year? No bites at his skills/cv to offer him work?

I think [and this is purely speculation] that maybe the CO might be saying "well, if they are so in love, why didn't he stay on OPT, see the relationship out and then marry and adjust? What's up with the weird going back to India thing???". Again, speculation.

Also, any "weirdness" pertaining to your relationship [ie he was an adviser to you, a boss to you, on a committee that was overseeing any of your work]?

What the Indian consulates LOVE to see and approve without hesitation is a Desi-Desi love or arranged marriage. The guy should be 2+ years older than the woman. Depending on the consulate, there should be an engagement party or other formal get-together. There should be album after album of those horrendous posed photos that make the Glamour Shots from the malls in the '80s look like Pulitzer Prize winning photos.

If going for the CR1, the groom decked out on a white horse or elephant wins CO brownie points...

Once you start to move away from that norm, there needs to be realistic stories behind how things happened in the relationship. This story needs to make sense to the "average joe" who hears it. It seems like from your other information, it did make sense. But....

There is a little something that is making them hesitate - whether or not it's surmountable, only time will tell.

Was there a discrepancy in his G325? [i think that's the form - with the addresses and such?] It would completely blow if they try to nail him on a misrep for a clerical or interview error....but that's the type of info that they are now requesting.

I wish you the best of luck, it seems like Mumbai doesn't sit on cases too long.

Our story is completely out of the ordinary. The saying "you don't plan on the people you fall in love with". I met my Fiance one month after I separated from my husband and then tragically my husband died while we were separated. During this time I was dealing with two sons dealing with the separation and then their fathers untimely death. During this time my fiancee and I were dating, we were cautious around my sons because of them being sensitive about me being with another man other than their father. My Fiancee had planned on moving back to India before he met me and we did not know how much we were in love until he left. We were both love struck....realized this just days after he left that we could not live without each other. They have my complete story. It's a crazy whirl wind but it is very much true!! He probably would have stayed on OPT if we would have known how strongly we loved each other, but there was so much emotional stuff going on for me I was not sure. He did not know also if I was ready for a serious relationship yet. He just thought that he would go back to India for 6 months and then come back when things in my life were settled. Then after he left we realized we were in love and wanted to spend the rest of our lives together. We realized this to late and we are both kicking ourselves for him going back to India.

[TimeTravel 78]

Sometimes they need the doc to verify the things. Just provide exactly what they need. Mumbai Consulate is indeed very good, and good to grant the visa once everything is on track. They are pretty fast to process the file. I also got 2nd 221g, and after providing the doc, they reviewed my doc and grant the visa in 4 days.

Good luck and take care!

[V+C 9]

Sometimes they need the doc to verify the things. Just provide exactly what they need. Mumbai Consulate is indeed very good, and good to grant the visa once everything is on track. They are pretty fast to process the file. I also got 2nd 221g, and after providing the doc, they reviewed my doc and grant the visa in 4 days.

Good luck and take care!

Iwaiting you are one of the most positive supports for me through this process!! Thank you for your kind words of encouragement

[catknit 144]

iwaiting is a nice ray of sunshine in what can be a frustrating and crazy process!

Chrystal - your story is heartbreaking! Even if you and your former husband were over in the sense of a relationship/marriage and even if you were fighting or whatever, having him pass must have been truly shocking and destablizing, not just to you but to your children as well. Sometimes things just time out incorrectly.

I don't delve much into my former relationship here too frequently but part of the "wreaking-of-fraud" issues we had pertained to timings with my ex. My ex was a controlling, manipulative, abusive man. I could go into to specifics, alas, they would probably be boring to most though some I find down right hilarious now. Anyway, in 2005, I moved out of our common bedroom and went into therapy. Due to a swear of "divorce is not an option", I resigned myself to just live life as a dutiful "roommate"-style wife. With the help of said therapist, I realized I would be miserable living that way and when the ex refused to go to counselling, we separated.

Eventually [2006-7], I moved out, I filed for divorce, all was well in the world! It was during the separation that I met my now husband [red flag for fraud]. My divorce attorney had promised a divorce by the end of the year and that didn't happen [court scheduling was a mess]. I was quoted a new date, didn't work out. I was quoted a new "it WILL be this week, pinky swear" date. It was missed. In the midst of all this, I was ready to move on emotionally/relationship-wise and scheduled a trip to India to meet my now-husband 3 months past the most recent scheduled divorce date thinking it HAS to work out in the next 12 weeks.

When all was said and done, I ended up divorcing my ex on a Thursday morning and was in Delhi 36 hours later [HUGE red flag]. What didn't matter was the fact that I had been separated more than a year [there was no proof as my state had no legal separation option - you're either married or divorced, I stayed with friends for part of the separation so no lease in my name, etc etc etc]. What was PAINFULLY obvious in the paperwork was Date #1 [divorce date] was exactly 1 day different from Date #2 [date of the flight to meet my new bf, now husband].

Explaining this type of situation takes time and well written narratives on how it ended up the way it ended up - but even then a CO whose ears and brain are trained to sniff out fraud may see something else. An easy conclusion for a CO is a vunerable woman [me] has been smooth talked by a coniving man [my husband] during a stress-ridden part of her life. Not only that, add in the cultural aspects that are on the fence anyway [age, divorced, race, religion] and you have a mess. I totally get why we were denied. Frustrating? Sure.

I think what adds to that is under most circumstances, when you are filling out paperwork with the government - you get what is asked for. Renew a driver's license - you get it. Change your voter's ID - you get a new one in the mail. Heck, even your taxes, you fill in the blanks, sign it and a check magically arrives in the mail. These forms look the same, feel same, and even ask some of the same questions - it's easy to fill them out and think "I got this!".

But, this type of situation is very, very different. #1 - you have a holy host of emotions playing into this. In some cases, people haven't seen each other in months or over a year. You are in love [which is a hormonal nightmare]. #2 - you need to look at this like a legal case, something that many people have NEVER done before. Primary evidence? Secondary evidence? Bans and bars???? It is messy and stressful and a mere typo can cause huge issues for months if not for years. #3 - You may not know anyone who has had to wrangle with a consulate or USCIS - so you have no gauge on what's going on. I remember a friend re-upping his H1B and he asked me to be "on call" if he needed anything faxed. I was like "What are you talking about, just go get your visa...". I had NO idea how complex and stressful this whole system was before trying to sponsor my husband.

Anyway, my point to this long rambling post. Your case could go either way. Since you explained that your relationship is out of the ordinary, I would not be surprised in the consulate is taking more time to look at the details. This is not simply a request to hand in a missing W2 or a better copy of a birth certificate. They are probably looking to see if the relationship "makes sense" on paper.

Best case, you get the visa in a week or so. Worst case, you sit in AP for months or years not knowing what in the world in going on. Crappy case, but totally not worst case, is a denial. If that happens, you move on and keep fighting. We'll help you through that!

[V+C 9]

iwaiting is a nice ray of sunshine in what can be a frustrating and crazy process!

Chrystal - your story is heartbreaking! Even if you and your former husband were over in the sense of a relationship/marriage and even if you were fighting or whatever, having him pass must have been truly shocking and destablizing, not just to you but to your children as well. Sometimes things just time out incorrectly.

I don't delve much into my former relationship here too frequently but part of the "wreaking-of-fraud" issues we had pertained to timings with my ex. My ex was a controlling, manipulative, abusive man. I could go into to specifics, alas, they would probably be boring to most though some I find down right hilarious now. Anyway, in 2005, I moved out of our common bedroom and went into therapy. Due to a swear of "divorce is not an option", I resigned myself to just live life as a dutiful "roommate"-style wife. With the help of said therapist, I realized I would be miserable living that way and when the ex refused to go to counselling, we separated.

Eventually [2006-7], I moved out, I filed for divorce, all was well in the world! It was during the separation that I met my now husband [red flag for fraud]. My divorce attorney had promised a divorce by the end of the year and that didn't happen [court scheduling was a mess]. I was quoted a new date, didn't work out. I was quoted a new "it WILL be this week, pinky swear" date. It was missed. In the midst of all this, I was ready to move on emotionally/relationship-wise and scheduled a trip to India to meet my now-husband 3 months past the most recent scheduled divorce date thinking it HAS to work out in the next 12 weeks.

When all was said and done, I ended up divorcing my ex on a Thursday morning and was in Delhi 36 hours later [HUGE red flag]. What didn't matter was the fact that I had been separated more than a year [there was no proof as my state had no legal separation option - you're either married or divorced, I stayed with friends for part of the separation so no lease in my name, etc etc etc]. What was PAINFULLY obvious in the paperwork was Date #1 [divorce date] was exactly 1 day different from Date #2 [date of the flight to meet my new bf, now husband].

Explaining this type of situation takes time and well written narratives on how it ended up the way it ended up - but even then a CO whose ears and brain are trained to sniff out fraud may see something else. An easy conclusion for a CO is a vunerable woman [me] has been smooth talked by a coniving man [my husband] during a stress-ridden part of her life. Not only that, add in the cultural aspects that are on the fence anyway [age, divorced, race, religion] and you have a mess. I totally get why we were denied. Frustrating? Sure.

I think what adds to that is under most circumstances, when you are filling out paperwork with the government - you get what is asked for. Renew a driver's license - you get it. Change your voter's ID - you get a new one in the mail. Heck, even your taxes, you fill in the blanks, sign it and a check magically arrives in the mail. These forms look the same, feel same, and even ask some of the same questions - it's easy to fill them out and think "I got this!".

But, this type of situation is very, very different. #1 - you have a holy host of emotions playing into this. In some cases, people haven't seen each other in months or over a year. You are in love [which is a hormonal nightmare]. #2 - you need to look at this like a legal case, something that many people have NEVER done before. Primary evidence? Secondary evidence? Bans and bars???? It is messy and stressful and a mere typo can cause huge issues for months if not for years. #3 - You may not know anyone who has had to wrangle with a consulate or USCIS - so you have no gauge on what's going on. I remember a friend re-upping his H1B and he asked me to be "on call" if he needed anything faxed. I was like "What are you talking about, just go get your visa...". I had NO idea how complex and stressful this whole system was before trying to sponsor my husband.

Anyway, my point to this long rambling post. Your case could go either way. Since you explained that your relationship is out of the ordinary, I would not be surprised in the consulate is taking more time to look at the details. This is not simply a request to hand in a missing W2 or a better copy of a birth certificate. They are probably looking to see if the relationship "makes sense" on paper.

Best case, you get the visa in a week or so. Worst case, you sit in AP for months or years not knowing what in the world in going on. Crappy case, but totally not worst case, is a denial. If that happens, you move on and keep fighting. We'll help you through that!

Thank You Catnip for your help. I really hope for the best decision, but we are going to be together. Like you even if I have to move my family to India. My late husband was very much the same as yours he was bipolar his mood swings were getting worse and he was being very mean to me in front of our children. I decided to separate due to the horrible relationship and for our children to have a safe home environment. I separated from my late husband and then filed for divorce within the first month. My late husband then died due to an epileptic seizure two months from our separation. He had epilepsy.

Catnip I had no idea how hard and complicated this visa process would be. I had never dated anyone from another country before and no one in my family or close friends had married someone that they had to get a visa. I just happen to meet this wonderful Indian man in Oregon where I live we started dating and fell in love. I really was only looking to date him not fall in love, but you know that's how it goes (when you least expect it) boom in love.

Thank You for all your help and I will keep you posted on our progress