usage of pronouns?

[Slade&Natasha 7]

I see kotori chas as "which hour (is the clock at)".

'kotoriy chas' is basically just another (polite) way of asking 'what's the time/what time is it', I suppose it's considered an expression type of thing and doesn't make sense if translated word for word.

[eekee 182]

In Russian, since there "to be" doesn't really exist, you use other verbs where us lazy English speakers would just use "is" or "are." Like when I am doing translation, появляется pops up ALL THE TIME and we would not use "appears" in all of the cases where it does without sounding weird. So yeah, "как она спала," "как она спит."

Slim, I think the babushka grunted at you because some of them just... do that. Also, usually either здравствуйте OR доброе утро, both is exactly like saying "Hello! Good morning!" Спасибо большое isn't formal, either; it's just when you really mean it. Hell, you can even go for the огромное. If people don't react with the exhuberance you'd expect, well, some Russians just come off that way. We all know that the hard exterior melts away and they are actually quite effervescent as a whole.

But obviously some things aren't covered in textbooks... I sat here for ten minutes today trying to figure out how the hell I'd translate "а чё нет то?" into English.

Edited March 14, 2012 by eekee

[ONA 133]

And I think for learning to speak, English just seems much easier. Which is easier for a baby to say, "Toy" or "Igrushka" ? "Milk" or "moloko"? We'll keep teaching her russian though, she's only three months...

For a baby there is no language that is harder or easier to learn. In fact, they had an experiment, where they had adults from different countries listen to a baby, who couldn't talk yet - and each of those adults claimed that they heard sounds from their native language.

But, of course, when babies start putting words together, short words are easier. Looking at my little American niece and babies in Russia, I thought, probably, since one of the first words of an American kid is "please" and one of the first words of a Russian kid is "дай", English-speaking babies grow up to be stereotypically happy and polite, while Russian kids grow up into stereotypically "mean, gloomy and cold" Russians Just a thought.

Teach your daughter both languages, native proficiency in both English and Russian might be very useful for her in future

I sat here for ten minutes today trying to figure out how the hell I'd translate "а чё нет то?" into English.

"but why not?"

Edited March 14, 2012 by ONA

[eekee 182]

"but why not?"

I used "why the hell not" because I wanted to convey ~attitude~

[Derek & Rita 6]

For a baby there is no language that is harder or easier to learn. In fact, they had an experiment, where they had adults from different countries listen to a baby, who couldn't talk yet - and each of those adults claimed that they heard sounds from their native language.

But, of course, when babies start putting words together, short words are easier. Looking at my little American niece and babies in Russia, I thought, probably, since one of the first words of an American kid is "please" and one of the first words of a Russian kid is "дай", English-speaking babies grow up to be stereotypically happy and polite, while Russian kids grow up into stereotypically "mean, gloomy and cold" Russians Just a thought.

Teach your daughter both languages, native proficiency in both English and Russian might be very useful for her in future

"but why not?"

True, I think English has an advantage since most words have less syllables than Russian, mostly.

Interesting theory though about first words. I will of course teach her both languages, and maybe Spanish, Italian, French, or Chinese, whichever she wants. Hmm, maybe even German.

[slim 1,514]

Oh and.. just to clarify, you're saying that 'Spasibo Bolshoe' is a 'formal' phrase and never actually used?

No. I'm saying that many language programs will tell you "Thank you very much" is translated as "Bolshoi Spasiba" or "Spasiba Bolshoi." Neither of which are too formal or wrong... but in the differences between our languages it's not an exact translation. It's "close enough" and it'll work, but you could sound funny saying "Bolshoi spasiba" when everyone there says "spasiba bolshoi."

The reason why the babushka grunted at you was not because you used the phrases we never use (both "Zdravstvuite" and "dobroe utro" are very widely used), but because people in big cities don't tend to say "hello" to any stranger in the street.

I get that. This wasn't a lady on the street, this was the cleaning lady that came into my apartment early in the morning. I didn't have a go-to greeting for a simple, informal hello (other than privet) so I busted out the big words on her. As I was saying them I realized I was way too excited and way too formal for that early in the morning. I should've just grunted and possibly said "coffe?" ("kafe?") instead of using a formal greeting.

Language issues aside, when it's all quiet first thing in the morning, there really aint a place for big words anyway.

As for cultural awareness and not saying hello to people on the street. I realize that. However, I said hello to all the pretty girls!

Ah, Slim, I think we are doomed to not get along. You always make assumptions that are not correct about me, and you make proclamations.

FYI, she is learning english, but we certainly can't hold a conversation yet. I do help her to practice english, and I have tutored several people in ESL. She's at the point now where these videos will be useful to her.

They are useful to me to help me to improve my russian as well.

I'm not assuming anything. Your relationship is your business. If you do the majority of your communication in Russian, she WILL have problems communicating with folks once she's here.

There are a lot of guys who bring their wives over and they get all the Russian channels on their cable. Is that wrong? Not necessarily. But, if she has no Russian channels to watch, she HAS TO learn English. She may be doing ESL, she may be studying, she may be working hard at it. Hell, she may even be an English teacher. But, that's nowhere near the same level of intensity and immersion someone will need to communicate effectively in their new language.

People here don't talk like people on the book and tape sets or YouTube videos. They talk like hillbillies or hood rats.

Slim, I think the babushka grunted at you because some of them just... do that. Also, usually either здравствуйте OR доброе утро, both is exactly like saying "Hello! Good morning!" Спасибо большое isn't formal, either; it's just when you really mean it. Hell, you can even go for the огромное. If people don't react with the exhuberance you'd expect, well, some Russians just come off that way. We all know that the hard exterior melts away and they are actually quite effervescent as a whole.

As I said above, it should've been "Kafe?" instead of the formal stuff. When my MIL was here she was pretty friendly and formal in the morning so of course it's more situational than languistic.

Russian kids grow up into stereotypically "mean, gloomy and cold" Russians Just a thought.

I laughed so hard when my wife showed me her school pictures. Every kid had an awesome "Russian Smile" on their faces. All her other pictures she looks like she's going to kill someone. In many, she's pointing at the camera with a scowl on her face.

Some things never change.

[Slade&Natasha 7]

No. I'm saying that many language programs will tell you "Thank you very much" is translated as "Bolshoi Spasiba" or "Spasiba Bolshoi." Neither of which are too formal or wrong... but in the differences between our languages it's not an exact translation. It's "close enough" and it'll work, but you could sound funny saying "Bolshoi spasiba" when everyone there says "spasiba bolshoi."

I really disagree with you here, slim. You don't -really- expect any two languages to translate word for word perfectly - even Slavic, directly related languages sometimes don't. Wouldn't that make life amusingly easy?

As for this 'thank you' business, that's silly, at least with this particular example - nobody would look funny at anyone for using 'bolshoe spasibo' in lieu of 'spasibo bolshoe' or vice versa, I guarantee that. Maybe there'd be a funny look because it's not 'bolshoi' it's 'bol-sho-ye', but that's all.

Ps.. if you had said 'kafe?' to that woman, you'd get an even bigger grunt - 'kafe' = 'coffee shop?' (like Starbucks or something), so she'd presume that you're inviting her out to a morning date or you want her to go get you coffee..that would have been without a doubt, quite awkward 'kofe' = 'coffee?'

[Slade&Natasha 7]

If you do the majority of your communication in Russian, she WILL have problems communicating with folks once she's here.

There are a lot of guys who bring their wives over and they get all the Russian channels on their cable. Is that wrong? Not necessarily. But, if she has no Russian channels to watch, she HAS TO learn English. She may be doing ESL, she may be studying, she may be working hard at it. Hell, she may even be an English teacher. But, that's nowhere near the same level of intensity and immersion someone will need to communicate effectively in their new language.

People here don't talk like people on the book and tape sets or YouTube videos. They talk like hillbillies or hood rats.

Even if Derek talks to Rita predominantly in Russian, that alone in itself is not going to help her or hinder her from learning English in the long run, especially if she's taking measures in order to improve.

Seriously, slim, you said it yourself - she'll be engulfed and overwhelmed by the change, the culture and the language regardless, and it'll be frustrating and undoubtedly upsetting. I believe that if talking in Russian eludes misunderstanding and arguments for them, then so be it.

If there's a will - there's a way, she'll learn English sooner or later, she's got no choice, it's only a question of how dedicated she's going to be about it, and in turn that will determine how well or not well she ends up speaking the language.

If Derek now switches to only English, it'll cause problems in the short term and won't ultimately help in the long run because it's not his manner of speech alone that she has to get used to, it's the rest of the world she's moving to.

[Slade&Natasha 7]

True, I think English has an advantage since most words have less syllables than Russian, mostly.

Interesting theory though about first words. I will of course teach her both languages, and maybe Spanish, Italian, French, or Chinese, whichever she wants. Hmm, maybe even German.

Fewer syllables isn't really a concept that infants who are learning to speak at say, 10/12 months understand, they.. for lack of a better expression, don't care.

They'll choose which ever word sounds more phonetically attractive to them. In that respect, you can have your kid naming platonic solids by the age of 18 months if you make the experience interesting for them.

[Derek & Rita 6]

Even if Derek talks to Rita predominantly in Russian, that alone in itself is not going to help her or hinder her from learning English in the long run, especially if she's taking measures in order to improve.

Seriously, slim, you said it yourself - she'll be engulfed and overwhelmed by the change, the culture and the language regardless, and it'll be frustrating and undoubtedly upsetting. I believe that if talking in Russian eludes misunderstanding and arguments for them, then so be it.

If there's a will - there's a way, she'll learn English sooner or later, she's got no choice, it's only a question of how dedicated she's going to be about it, and in turn that will determine how well or not well she ends up speaking the language.

If Derek now switches to only English, it'll cause problems in the short term and won't ultimately help in the long run because it's not his manner of speech alone that she has to get used to, it's the rest of the world she's moving to.

Yes, that's my point. She won't be starting work immediately - we have a 3 month old kid, and she is going to be staying home with her until she is old enough to go to pre-school. That whole time she will be living here with me, going to movies, watching tv, shopping. She'll get chances to practice, and I plan on getting her into some ESL courses before she gets out in the real world and gets a job.

[Lena and Igor 5]

Yes, that's my point. She won't be starting work immediately - we have a 3 month old kid, and she is going to be staying home with her until she is old enough to go to pre-school. That whole time she will be living here with me, going to movies, watching tv, shopping. She'll get chances to practice, and I plan on getting her into some ESL courses before she gets out in the real world and gets a job.

Spasibo bol-sho-ye'

[eekee 182]

Eh I don't think it's that big of a hindrance to have Russian channels on tv. I NEVER watch Russian tv because the only good things on it are dubbed American cartoons, so I don't even have a tv anymore. If your wife only hangs out with other Russians, that's going to be a far bigger hindrance. If she manages to put together a group of English native speaker friends from work or wherever, that'll do more for her English than infinite credit hours of English classes.

I don't ever say "thank you very much" in English anyway. "thanks" will suffice in 95% of cases. And yeah, things don't translate word-for-word directly between different languages, but you're just looking for something that properly conveys your intentions.

[Slade&Natasha 7]

Yes, that's my point. She won't be starting work immediately - we have a 3 month old kid, and she is going to be staying home with her until she is old enough to go to pre-school. That whole time she will be living here with me, going to movies, watching tv, shopping. She'll get chances to practice, and I plan on getting her into some ESL courses before she gets out in the real world and gets a job.

She'll figure it out, she's a grown woman and I'm certain she knows what's best for her!

My husband speaks French infinitely better than I do. Should he get transferred to live and work in Europe, hypothetically speaking - to France, I would, indeed, hurl myself off the Eiffel tower if he wanted to speak to me in a language I don't like, much less understand, under the pretense that it'll help me learn, I'd just develop a total disdain for life.

You guys will do perfectly fine, I'm sure. I've had countless Russian friends adjust to life abroad just fine, not just Russian mind you - I know lots of Brits and Australians who ended up moving to Argentina, the Emirates, Quebec .. they somehow made do, people do this all the time, not just Russian fiance/es, wives/husbands ..

[slim 1,514]

I really disagree with you here, slim. You don't -really- expect any two languages to translate word for word perfectly - even Slavic, directly related languages sometimes don't. Wouldn't that make life amusingly easy?

As for this 'thank you' business, that's silly, at least with this particular example - nobody would look funny at anyone for using 'bolshoe spasibo' in lieu of 'spasibo bolshoe' or vice versa, I guarantee that. Maybe there'd be a funny look because it's not 'bolshoi' it's 'bol-sho-ye', but that's all.

My point is if you're using words/phrases that're "out of the book" they may not be applicable to the current situation. Big thanks is the same as thanks big but it sounds funny when you say it one way and the person in line behind you says it the other.

All too often with formal learning of a language the subtle nuances and details are scrapped in favor of grammatical rules or useless vocabulary. My personal favorite is "Do you speak English?" in the target language. That's the dumbest question ever (because you could ask in English) yet every language program has that as one of the questions you learn very early on.

With immersion it's possible to learn the things books/classes/etc., wouldn't teach and the student more quickly sounds like a native speaker as opposed to a formally trained foreign student.

Ps.. if you had said 'kafe?' to that woman, you'd get an even bigger grunt - 'kafe' = 'coffee shop?' (like Starbucks or something), so she'd presume that you're inviting her out to a morning date or you want her to go get you coffee..that would have been without a doubt, quite awkward 'kofe' = 'coffee?'

What is the Russian word for coffee?

[Slade&Natasha 7]

My point is if you're using words/phrases that're "out of the book" they may not be applicable to the current situation. Big thanks is the same as thanks big but it sounds funny when you say it one way and the person in line behind you says it the other.

Valid point, but you chose a bad example. In the "spasibo bol'shoe" case, as my wife and other native speakers already said, it really makes little to no difference - "many thanks" vs "thanks much". But it does crack me up when Russians write "Thanks a lot!" in email, as it always comes across as sounding sarcastic (though that was never their intent).

My personal favorite is "Do you speak English?" in the target language. That's the dumbest question ever (because you could ask in English) yet every language program has that as one of the questions you learn very early on.

Yeah, that always struck me as an odd thing to learn too. Though I have used it on occasion since I prefer to speak in English, but I want to give them a clue that I do in fact speak Russian okay.

With immersion it's possible to learn the things books/classes/etc., wouldn't teach and the student more quickly sounds like a native speaker as opposed to a formally trained foreign student.

Without a doubt, there is no substitute for learning a language by living abroad. I'm living proof of that!

What is the Russian word for coffee?

кофе = kofe = "KOH-fye"