Think Really Hard Before Marrying Someone from MENA

[msheesha 548]

Then the risk would refer to the pregnancy, not the marriage, which is why I was confused.

[Mithra 1,185]

Olivia, no one forced you to tell us about Waleed's flip flopping. You volunteered all of the information, in detail. If you're cool with him taking away your opportunity to be a mother that's all that counts. It's just that some of us here think its kinda shitty the way he pulled the bait and switch on you.

Oh thank goodness I wasn't the only one confused by that. Lol! She kept saying marriage and I was like since when do medical journals address marriage?

Then the risk would refer to the pregnancy, not the marriage, which is why I was confused.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Mithra

[sandinista! 1,816]

I feel totally left out, nurses always get the shaft I guess, because none of my nursing school lectures I attended or my textbooks talked about high risk mena/american marriages :'( it must be just for those special special drs.

[Staashi 371]

Olivia, no one forced you to tell us about Waleed's flip flopping. You volunteered all of the information, in detail. If you're cool with him taking away your opportunity to be a mother that's all that counts. It's just that some of us here think its kinda shitty the way he pulled the bait and switch on you.

Oh thank goodness I wasn't the only one confused by that. Lol! She kept saying marriage and I was like since when do medical journals address marriage?

Yeah, it is totally sh!tty that he did this.

Olivia,look at it from my perspective: You're a woman with semi-Christian beliefs/practices, a westerner and he knew that when he married you. He knew you did not speak Arabic, and you weren't a Muslima. However, you were good enough to marry, to cook for him, clean, bring him here, support him while he's doing his studies and residency, to ** him, and all the other components that a marriage entails. But ultimately, YOU and YOUR COUNTRY are not good enough to have his children and raise them here. What type of fvcked up bullsh!t is that? You're a smart girl, Olivia. But do not be deceived - you're being taken for a ride, no matter what secret you or anybody else knows about him.

[Boiler 44,857]

My grandparents emigrated when my mother was 12, and whilst my mother never had any adjustment issues my grandparents always kept their traditions even though they lived for another 60 years.

I have been in the US for 7 years, and looking back it probably did take me a year to fully get used to things.

But there are certain tenets that will never change, you are what you are.

Probably a female thing to think that the man you marry is raw material to be moulded into what you want. That is just not the case.

My guess here is that the attractions of coming to the US do not include religous/beliefs/culture so those thing will not alter.

[Nasturtium 500]

My grandparents emigrated when my mother was 12, and whilst my mother never had any adjustment issues my grandparents always kept their traditions even though they lived for another 60 years.

I have been in the US for 7 years, and looking back it probably did take me a year to fully get used to things.

But there are certain tenets that will never change, you are what you are.

Probably a female thing to think that the man you marry is raw material to be moulded into what you want. That is just not the case.

My guess here is that the attractions of coming to the US do not include religous/beliefs/culture so those thing will not alter.

Well, I'm a female. As a FYI, I never looked down at my lower abdomen one day and said to myself, "By Gd, I have ovaries. I totally think my husband is material to be molded!" It is immaturity which would cause one to think that, not a lessening of testosterone and increase in estrogen. What decent person actually thinks the other person in their marriage is someone to be shaped and changed?!

[Boiler 44,857]

I guess not every Female thinks that way, there are always exceptions to most rules.

[msheesha 548]

In this relationship there is something that I can't discuss publicly that none of you know about our situation. I've never discussed it with anyone from here before. Only my closest friend and my Mom know. This one thing has to do with this very topic and it removes any shadow of doubt about us. I will never reveal it and I don't have to prove it to anyone.

What I get out of this is a companion that loves me deeply. He needs my support right not to get a residency here. He's determined and self aware that not passing a Step to acheiving that could rock our marriage. A baby right now would complicate obtaining that goal and achieving financial stability and security for us. It's not the right time. Maybe in a year or two but not right now. We still have time. From the medical associations standpoint the facts of our relationship are defined already as a risky marriage and adding a baby only increases those risks. I've read this part about marraiges in his books he studies for the medical steps and any of you can too. Most of us in the MENA forum are considered a risky marriage which is why it makes sense that most of the marraiges do fail.

Our relationship is very real and there are percentages that state the possibility it may very well not work out for us one day. I can assure you as the person that has known him for nearly a decade and spent half of that married to him he's not feeding me a line, he's not using me, and there is no looming deadline like his residency or naturalization. In every relationship issues will come up and each couple will have to decide how to work on them.

I hate to be pedantic, but see above - the risk discussed was clearly in relation to the marriage, not advanced maternal age pregnancy. It's clear from above, as the addition of a baby is mentioned solely as adding risk to the marriage, not discussed in terms of the pregnancy itself and advanced maternal age being risky. So, I'm still confused. What medical associations/medical books are assigning risk levels to marriages, and at what marriages specifically are they looking, and assigning this risk level?

Edited March 13, 2012 by msheesha

[tany1157 161]

My grandparents emigrated when my mother was 12, and whilst my mother never had any adjustment issues my grandparents always kept their traditions even though they lived for another 60 years.

I have been in the US for 7 years, and looking back it probably did take me a year to fully get used to things.

But there are certain tenets that will never change, you are what you are.

Probably a female thing to think that the man you marry is raw material to be moulded into what you want. That is just not the case.

My guess here is that the attractions of coming to the US do not include religous/beliefs/culture so those thing will not alter.

I'm a woman also, and never wish my husband to change....why the heck would I have married him if I wanted to change who he was Just like we shouldn't generalize that you should only be wary of marrying MENA men (you should be wary marrying anyone), people shouldn't generalize that every woman is a femenazi who wishes to emasculate their husbands.

Edited March 13, 2012 by tany1157

[msheesha 548]

Thank you for sharing your story. That must have been so hard on you two. It is nice to hear that you two have made it through that tough patch, because that is a big deal to decide to not have children after you thought you would. Hubby and I decided we would not raise our kids under any religion name, but to raise them with a faith in God. He was adamant about them speaking arabic, which I agreed with. Sometimes I do wonder if when that child is actually here, he will change his mind and want to raise them strictly Muslim. I am not opposed to that, as I am "labeled" a Christian, but really, I am not into organized religion. I just hope my child will at least believe in God, but even then, I can't control what my children will decide when they are adults. In the end, I hope that our love and respect will continue to grow with anything that life throws at us. Just have to take it one day at a time.

The thing that is saddest to me about this whole thing, is that she didn't decide to not have children. If you look at her previous post, she said he announced to her, after they had previously agreed on having children, that they would not be having children. Not only is it really sad, but it's actually grounds for annulment.

[Mithra 1,185]

Yes, she clearly was referring to marriage itself not advanced maternal age. Are these psychiatric journals? Are the authors experts in international/intercultural marriages? I would be interested in reading these journals if that is the case. But then, are these journals only available for certain med students? Maybe that's why none of us have ever heard of them?

I hate to be pedantic, but see above - the risk discussed was clearly in relation to the marriage, not advanced maternal age pregnancy. It's clear from above, as the addition of a baby is mentioned solely as adding risk to the marriage, not discussed in terms of the pregnancy itself and advanced maternal age being risky. So, I'm still confused. What medical associations/medical books are assigning risk levels to marriages, and at what marriages specifically are they looking, and assigning this risk level?

[tany1157 161]

The thing that is saddest to me about this whole thing, is that she didn't decide to not have children. If you look at her previous post, she said he announced to her, after they had previously agreed on having children, that they would not be having children. Not only is it really sad, but it's actually grounds for annulment.

I respect, and see your point. My son's aunt has been married for about 20 years now. She has a 23 year old step daughter, but when she met her husband, they both said they wanted no more kids, until I had my son 7 years ago. I found out that having my son around made her change her mind, she wanted a child, but her husband wouldn't budge on the issue. The difference of this story is, they both said they didn't want kids from the beginning, but I am comparing this story because my ex-SIL had changed her mind, and had to compromise with her husband, and in the end, they decided against having kids. I remember telling my ex how bad I felt for her, wanting to have a child, but her husband didn't. I couldn't make that sacrifice. I dated someone before my husband, who had 2 kids, and was done. I always wanted another child, but he was adamant that "God says that I shouldn't have anymore." Needless to say, that relationship didn't last, but there were also many, many, many other issues, we just didn't belong together. My SIL and her husband are still together, and I don't see an end in sight for them. She is also very close to my son. These are tough choices.

I can't sit here and say for sure what is going on here, but I do know that they have been involved for a very long time, and nobody knows exactly what is going on but them. The women having an opinion here are more experienced than me when it comes to this topic, all I can say is what I know. My husband is turning 28 this year and he is dying to be a father. He lost his father about a year and a half ago, and ever since then, becoming a father has been more at the forefront than before. He always wanted kids, but now, he is ready, and so am I, as I am turning 31 this year. We didn't expect our journey to be so long, otherwise, we might have had a child by now.

I wish nothing but the best for Olivia. Yes, she came on here and told her personal story, which she is probably regretting now, but it's done. In the end, she will do what she feels is right with the knowledge that she has. (((HUGS))) to her

[msheesha 548]

I'm not shocked by any of the responses. Judging others relationships is par for the course on here. The fact remains most of our marriages are considered "high risk" according to the medical books. That's not pointing fingers. That's stating the facts. So before you go sharpening your claws to rip others to shreds please realize you don't have all the facts. There are things I know about my relationship that others don't. While I can appreciate the concern you only know what you know. I don't feel like I'm being taken for a ride or anything bad, ect. We've worked on our challenges and yes this was a big one. We've come to a mutual understanding between husband and wife. From my point of view it really doesn't matter what anybody else has to say about it. It isn't going to change the situation.

The facts we have are from you. The fact that you have provided is that you and your husband agreed as a couple that you would have children. Then HE decided and "announced" to you one day, that you would not be having children until you move to Egypt. But, you're not even considering moving to Egypt until you are past child-bearing years.

Try not to let your defense of him and your relationship blind you. At the end of the day, are you okay with not having children? And, if you are & you think he's worth not being a mother in the one shot at life you have, then that's obviously your choice. It just seems like too much for you to give up.

[100% Al Ahly Fan 53]

Secrets and what is between you and your husband should be kept just that way, a fact that is reiterated over and over again, here in VJ.

Having said that, I wish only the best for you, Olivia. I'm sorry you would have to deal with such "heartbreaking" and possible "deal breaker" of a decision. No women should cry knowing she may not have children, with the man she loves, over excuses.

To be fair to you, Olivia...I ask the following questions? Why did Waleed even move to the U.S.? He was a successful doctor in Egypt, yes? Was it just for the education here in the U.S.? If so, why not start a family here and then once he finishes residency and/or his fellowship, move to Egypt? We have two friends like this. One is currently looking for a residency program (she just had a baby, four weeks ago) and the other, just yesterday, was accepted by a program in Texas. Both are Muslim and both had children in the U.S.

My mother, who is Coptic btw, raised two Muslim children in the United States, by HERSELF after my father passed. It can be done. If your husband is seeing "American children" in a bad light perhaps moving to bigger city with more Muslims will show him CAN be done. Knowing Islam and speaking Arabic outside if the Middle East is really not that difficult with the right influences.

Like many of the others, I believe these are all excuses. He knows that as a Muslim, a baby brings happiness and rizq to a home. So he should have no need to worry because God will provide as He sees fit for your family once a baby is born. Also, doesn't his sister or brother live here in the U.S. with their children? Aren't they in medical school or something like that and raising Muslim/Arabic speaking kids? I don't know....it just sounds like excuses to me.

Anyhow, sorry you have to deal with this and that you may never have children. Hopefully the love you have for each other will get you through this. I must say though, being a mother is a wonderful thing. Really it is. I can't imagine my life without my two boys. I've always wanted to be a mama.

[msheesha 548]

Secrets and what is between you and your husband should be kept just that way, a fact that is reiterated over and over again, here in VJ.

Having said that, I wish only the best for you, Olivia. I'm sorry you would have to deal with such "heartbreaking" and possible "deal breaker" of a decision. No women should cry knowing she may not have children, with the man she loves, over excuses.

To be fair to you, Olivia...I ask the following questions? Why did Waleed even move to the U.S.? He was a successful doctor in Egypt, yes? Was it just for the education here in the U.S.? If so, why not start a family here and then once he finishes residency and/or his fellowship, move to Egypt? We have two friends like this. One is currently looking for a residency program (she just had a baby, four weeks ago) and the other, just yesterday, was accepted by a program in Texas. Both are Muslim and both had children in the U.S.

My mother, who is Coptic btw, raised two Muslim children in the United States, by HERSELF after my father passed. It can be done. If your husband is seeing "American children" in a bad light perhaps moving to bigger city with more Muslims will show him CAN be done. Knowing Islam and speaking Arabic outside if the Middle East is really not that difficult with the right influences.

Like many of the others, I believe these are all excuses. He knows that as a Muslim, a baby brings happiness and rizq to a home. So he should have no need to worry because God will provide as He sees fit for your family once a baby is born. Also, doesn't his sister or brother live here in the U.S. with their children? Aren't they in medical school or something like that and raising Muslim/Arabic speaking kids? I don't know....it just sounds like excuses to me.

Anyhow, sorry you have to deal with this and that you may never have children. Hopefully the love you have for each other will get you through this. I must say though, being a mother is a wonderful thing. Really it is. I can't imagine my life without my two boys. I've always wanted to be a mama.

Amen.

Olivia - putting aside everything - US/Egypt, medical school, defending your husband, visa, residency, Visa Journey & all its craziness and dynamics, etc etc etc, please think about being 50+ and looking back and possibly regretting not having children.

You don't have to defend your marriage and husband to anyone, but you owe it to yourself to not give up being a mother if that is what you want.

As I'm writing this I'm thinking about the selfishness that is involved in his "announcement", and it makes me crazy to think about a woman accepting someone else's decision/"announcement" about something as precious as that woman being a mother. It's ghastly that he feels that he can take this away from you, and sad that anyone would accept it.