Lose German Citizenship

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Ruffie,

you could even go as far as I do and say that . . . um . . . a natural-born German would have never sworn an Oath to his or her country of citizenship (professional soldiers excluded), yet a naturalized U.S. citizen has taken the Oath of Allegiance to the United States. So in case of a conflict -- remember, the United States and Germany were engaged in a war to each other already twice in the past century -- the naturalized American is required to fight for the United States. You can expect the U.S. government to take exactly the same position, and if you look what happened to U.S. citizens of Japanese heritage during WWII, the wide-reaching implications become apparent.

As long as everything is friendly and relaxed, we don't have to worry about such a thing. But once the bottom gets hot, I'm quite sure that Uncle Sam will turn down the thumb screws a few notches. Just as a reminder: U.S. citizens can't be Japanese citizens at the same time, but Germans can!

Edited February 25, 2012 by Brother Hesekiel

[soch 2]

UPDATE! 255 euros have been paid (waiting to receive receipt). Consulate emailed they have the BBG just a matter of picking it up w/ proof of payment. And, Oath in 1.5 weeks.

FINGERS CROSSED PEOPLE, FINGERS CROSSED!

[Dr. Obvious 49]

"But I'm a housewife" you'll say. Doesn't matter. Nobody ask you what you are doing, or if you are even working. Nobody requires a resume from you. I have a degree in political science and and one in philosophy, am self-employed with an overhead that makes my head hurt, yet listed jobs that pay $10 an hour. Doesn't matter.

"But I live in Nebraska and there are no such jobs." Doesn't matter. Nobody prohibits you to move to another state. Who knows, maybe you always hated living in Florida and really want to see what it's like in Wyoming. None of their business. You can even embrace this by mentioning en passe that this job would provide the added advantage of moving to an area you always wanted to live at.

So let me get this straight. Basically, you could just simply see a job ad on craigslist requiring US citizenship for whatever reason and be like "AH HA!! HERE IS PROOF OF MY BERUFLICHE BENACHTEILIGUNG." Then you just make up some BS song and dance story surrounding that to get the second half of the application approved?

[karin_brenig 18]

UPDATE! 255 euros have been paid (waiting to receive receipt). Consulate emailed they have the BBG just a matter of picking it up w/ proof of payment. And, Oath in 1.5 weeks.

FINGERS CROSSED PEOPLE, FINGERS CROSSED!

Fingers crossed and thumbs pressed - you're going to survive and get your "Doppelpass".

Good Luck!

[karin_brenig 18]

So let me get this straight. Basically, you could just simply see a job ad on craigslist requiring US citizenship for whatever reason and be like "AH HA!! HERE IS PROOF OF MY BERUFLICHE BENACHTEILIGUNG." Then you just make up some BS song and dance story surrounding that to get the second half of the application approved?

kinda, but not quite:

One job ad isn't enough - you should provide 3 - 5 ads.

I wouldn't pick them from Craigslist either - rather go to http://www.usajobs.gov/

Any old job wouldn't do either - you'll have to provide some evidence of your qualification for that job.

The closer to your real personal situation your application for BBG is, the more credible you will be able to paint the picture and get approved.

Just "some BS song and dance" won't cut it. The people in Köln are very supportive and really willing to help you - but they don't want to feel like they're obviously being played.

[nwctzn 55]

The closer to your real personal situation your application for BBG is, the more credible you will be able to paint the picture and get approved.

The people in Köln are very supportive and really willing to help you - but they don't want to feel like they're obviously being played.

This is really proof of the absurdness of the BBG. So the "people in Köln" are well aware that you are fooling them, but they want that you do it elegantly. Sorry, but this whole BBG thing makes absolutely no sense at all. I see it really as a total waste of time and money for both the German Government and for German citizens who try to keep their original citizenship. Just a sort of loophole set up by the German Government, nothing else.

[karin_brenig 18]

This is really proof of the absurdness of the BBG. So the "people in Köln" are well aware that you are fooling them, but they want that you do it elegantly. Sorry, but this whole BBG thing makes absolutely no sense at all. I see it really as a total waste of time and money for both the German Government and for German citizens who try to keep their original citizenship. Just a sort of loophole set up by the German Government, nothing else.

OK - if you call "playing by the rules" absurd, fine - doesn't matter.

And since when do we need Government rules (of any country, for that matter) to make sense?

To me this whole visa-journey from the first I-130 all the way through the end, having dual citizenship, is just one big administrative process. It's just a bunch of forms that you have to present filled out correctly, supported with documentation, and presented at the right place on time and according to the requirements of whatever agency you're dealing with.

Or call it an IQ test - know the rules, do your homework, and get what you want. Consider it a hobby, or a sport, and don't look for any deep meanings, because there aren't any.

[nwctzn 55]

OK - if you call "playing by the rules" absurd, fine - doesn't matter.

And since when do we need Government rules (of any country, for that matter) to make sense?

To me this whole visa-journey from the first I-130 all the way through the end, having dual citizenship, is just one big administrative process. It's just a bunch of forms that you have to present filled out correctly, supported with documentation, and presented at the right place on time and according to the requirements of whatever agency you're dealing with.

Or call it an IQ test - know the rules, do your homework, and get what you want. Consider it a hobby, or a sport, and don't look for any deep meanings, because there aren't any.

I think you misunderstood. I do not call "playing by the rules" as absurd. I call the BBG absurd. Basically, this multi-citizenship issue has to be clear cut like in other countries. Germany needs to either allow multi-citizenship without the whole meaningless BBG process or not allow it at all. Examples: India does not allow multi-citizenship, end of discussion. On the other hand, Canada allows multi-citizenship, end of discussion.

You do not force your citizens through some "fake" bureaucratic setup like the BBG where the "people of Cologne/Koeln" already know you are playing them but they want to be played well. OK, you will say the rules are the rules but that does not mean that you cannot question them. Especially if the rule is as meaningless as the BBG. I wonder what the acceptance ratio of the BBG is. I bet it is not below 90% meaning virtually whoever applies for it gets it. So what should the German Government do? Pass a law and make multi-citizenship OK for all citizens or deny it completely. Of course, if your citizens do not question the rules and regard going through a meaningless BBG process as hobby or sport and do not look for any deep meanings, you just leave the process intact.

[karin_brenig 18]

I think you misunderstood. I do not call "playing by the rules" as absurd. I call the BBG absurd. Basically, this multi-citizenship issue has to be clear cut like in other countries. Germany needs to either allow multi-citizenship without the whole meaningless BBG process or not allow it at all. Examples: India does not allow multi-citizenship, end of discussion. On the other hand, Canada allows multi-citizenship, end of discussion.

You do not force your citizens through some "fake" bureaucratic setup like the BBG where the "people of Cologne/Koeln" already know you are playing them but they want to be played well. OK, you will say the rules are the rules but that does not mean that you cannot question them. Especially if the rule is as meaningless as the BBG. I wonder what the acceptance ratio of the BBG is. I bet it is not below 90% meaning virtually whoever applies for it gets it. So what should the German Government do? Pass a law and make multi-citizenship OK for all citizens or deny it completely. Of course, if your citizens do not question the rules and regard going through a meaningless BBG process as hobby or sport and do not look for any deep meanings, you just leave the process intact.

I guess you are not German, right?

I wonder what your native country is, and whether that country is the only perfect paradise on this planet, or if it has any meaningless, absurd, or questionable administrative processes going on?

And no, not everybody who attempts to get a BBG really receives an approval.

Some people hear from their consulate, that their application has no merit and the consulate will not forward it to BVA in Köln.

That's when they join the recommended group and follow advice. Some don't make it even after that and you can find their failed applications in the group's database.

In my personal case I didn't even have to "fake" anything or "play" anybody - I really need to apply for some high paying, secure US-Government jobs to be able to fulfill my ongoing financial obligations in Germany while supporting my family in the USA. So I really had no problem to give compelling reasons why I absolutely need both citizenships.

After having spent almost half a century in Germany, I fully understand why Germany doesn't want to allow dual (or multiple) citizenship for everybody; I also understand why Germany wants to give some people special permission to have dual (or multiple) citizenship. I support these policies and have absolutely no intention to work towards changing them. That discussion would belong in a different forum, though.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I had no idea it was that old of a concept Probably most people I know who are dual citizens are so from birth, so they never had to go through it. I'm just happy it's not like e.g. Ukranian law that does not allow for dual citizenship period - I'm all done, paid it all, did all the papers and now I can chillax It's not like it took all that long.

Actually Ukraine does not RECOGNISE dual, it isn't illegal. Just like the US doesn't RECOGNISE dual, but doesn't do anything to stop it. Ask Gary&Alla about it. She just naturalised.

[Anna C. 4]

Ahh odd! We have a Ukranian friend who told us it was not allowed. I suppose she is misinformed! Did she then not loose her old citizenship without knowing?

[nwctzn 55]

I guess you are not German, right?

You are right.

I wonder what your native country is, and whether that country is the only perfect paradise on this planet, or if it has any meaningless, absurd, or questionable administrative processes going on?

I am not German, but I was born in Germany to non-German parents. I lived there for 15 years and was a minor when my parents re-located. After leaving Germany, I had to put up with many meaningless procedures even to visit my relatives in Germany or doing an internship there. So it feels really meaningless if you cannot even visit your country of birth without a visa. As I indicated in an earlier post, I got a 5-day visa just to attend my relative's wedding in Germany, my country of birth. So this is one of the main reason for my frustration with German immigration law.

After having spent almost half a century in Germany, I fully understand why Germany doesn't want to allow dual (or multiple) citizenship for everybody; I also understand why Germany wants to give some people special permission to have dual (or multiple) citizenship. I support these policies and have absolutely no intention to work towards changing them. That discussion would belong in a different forum, though.

Really wondering what these reasons are? So you are OK that some people receive special treatment and can maintain their German citizenship, and some do not. Having lived in Germany as well I frankly do not understand why some people should get this special treatment and some should not.

Edited February 27, 2012 by nwctzn

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Karin,

initially I advised to enclose 3 to 5 job offers, then I went down to 2 to 3 based on people's feedback. Now 1 is indeed enough, although I still would recommend 2 or 3.

nwctzn,

the guys in Köln are on our side. They want to approve BBGs, but they do have to play by the rules set forth by the legislator. So if the applicant gives them an acceptable reason, they will sign off on it.

I agree that the BBG Process is pretty stupid. The thing is, there are so few Germans who naturalize outside the EU (where no BBG is needed), that it's simply not a priority for the government to revisit this issue.

[nwctzn 55]

I agree that the BBG Process is pretty stupid. The thing is, there are so few Germans who naturalize outside the EU (where no BBG is needed), that it's simply not a priority for the government to revisit this issue.

Danke Bruder Hesekiel! It's a relief to know that I am not the only one who sees how stupid and absurd the BBG process is.

Agree also with you that this is most likely a very very low priority item for the current German government who does not seem to be a great fan on immigration reform anyway.

Edited February 28, 2012 by nwctzn

[nwctzn 55]

And no, not everybody who attempts to get a BBG really receives an approval.

Some people hear from their consulate, that their application has no merit and the consulate will not forward it to BVA in Köln.

That's when they join the recommended group and follow advice. Some don't make it even after that and you can find their failed applications in the group's database.

I didn't say that every BBG application gets approved. I stated that most likely more than 90% get approved.