Emelianenko wins, Putin is booed

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I wish P&R would stay in P&R.

This forum is for guns and pie.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/339631-emelianenko-wins-putin-is-booed/page__view__findpost__p__5018287 <---- I couldn't leave that post and a few others like it alone. No way Jose.

[Anya n Charles 0]

While your at it, you can save the bs about Russians being new to democracy. All of Eastern and Central Europe have done fine with democracy...every country but the RUB countries. Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine have all managed to make a mockery of democracy for the fact it's not part of their culture. Europeans can manage democracy, yet Central Asians seem to have a problem with it. I blame this on 300+ years of Mongol rule and the Muscovy Khanate.

Russia is not going forward, it is setting a record going backwards. Butchering your opponents in cold blood is not "going forward" it is regression in big leaps. Look at Poland, the Baltics, Bulgaria even if you want to see how people manage to not be murdered yet still challenge the incumbent. Only the brain dead and ignorant buy into the words; "controlled democracy".

Yeah, you are right Russia / USSR was better off under Communism .... don't you see under the current form of Democracy in Russia at least You and people like you have the ability to find out about issues like these and bring these issues to Global Awareness ?

[Anya n Charles 0]

I wish P&R would stay in P&R.

This forum is for guns and pie.

maybe a new forum for Russophobia and Putinophobia is necessary . . . .

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Yeah, you are right Russia / USSR was better off under Communism .... don't you see under the current form of Democracy in Russia at least You and people like you have the ability to find out about issues like these and bring these issues to Global Awareness ?

"Current form of democracy"? There is no "current form of democracy" in Russia. It doesn't work that way. You either have democracy or you don't. Putting your opponents in prison, beating them to death, and/or putting a bullet through someones head that you deem a threat isn't a "current form of democracy". As far as being aware of what went down during communist times and today...we knew what was going down during communist times hence Checkpoint Charlie and all the Russians seeking asylum during those times. Nothings changed much other than the names and faces. New people, same ol Rus #######.

maybe a new forum for Russophobia and Putinophobia is necessary . . . .

I call it; "not sticking ones head up ones ####### and saying it smells like a rose when surely it does not."

Edited November 23, 2011 by Why_Me

[SMR 368]

"Current form of democracy"? There is no "current form of democracy" in Russia. It doesn't work that way. You either have democracy or you don't. Putting your opponents in prison, beating them to death, and/or putting a bullet through someones head that you deem a threat isn't a "current form of democracy". As far as being aware of what went down during communist times and today...we knew what was going down during communist times hence Checkpoint Charlie and all the Russians seeking asylum during those times. Nothings changed much other than the names and faces. New people, same ol Rus #######.

I call it; "not sticking ones head up ones ####### and saying it smells like a rose when surely it does not."

Have you ever been to Russia? Do you speak Russian? Are you really able to see what is going on in these countries?

[SMR 368]

The point is not that Russia is a perfect democracy or that it's more democratic than the US. The point is that most Americans are brainwashed into believing that American democracy is healthy and functional while most other countries (with the exception of Western Europe) are totalitarian sinkholes where you might be arrested for putting your pants on the wrong way.

We're perfectly fine talking about all of the problems in American politics until someone compares it to other countries and then suddenly there's a kneejerk reaction by a lot of Americans to acknowledge but still ignore all of the problems and go with the line that our country really is better than every other country (even by Americans who have never even been anywhere else).

The original question was, is Russia more democratic than most Americans would like to admit/ are lead to believe? The answer to that is a solid yes.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Have you ever been to Russia? Do you speak Russian? Are you really able to see what is going on in these countries?

I helped set up a work camp on Sakhalin for Veco. As far as travelling around when I was there, it was limited other than a brief stay in Magadan, and a trip over to Smolensk from Belarus 7 years later.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The point is not that Russia is a perfect democracy or that it's more democratic than the US. The point is that most Americans are brainwashed into believing that American democracy is healthy and functional while most other countries (with the exception of Western Europe) are totalitarian sinkholes where you might be arrested for putting your pants on the wrong way.

We're perfectly fine talking about all of the problems in American politics until someone compares it to other countries and then suddenly there's a kneejerk reaction by a lot of Americans to acknowledge but still ignore all of the problems and go with the line that our country really is better than every other country (even by Americans who have never even been anywhere else).

The original question was, is Russia more democratic than most Americans would like to admit/ are lead to believe? The answer to that is a solid yes.

If Americans weren't aware of problems here then I doubt there would be protest here in the form of the Occupy Movement...and it's happening not only in major US cities, but cities all over Europe as well. We are quite aware of how fcked up this country has become. Two parties here and both have their heads up their #######. A lot of talk, and little change.

What we do not have here is the US government sanctioning assaults on foreign ambassadeurs like what has happened in Tsar Putin's time, we do not see our government sanctioning hits on people who it deems a threat to their power including but not excluding journalist, human rights workers, attorneys, businessmen, et all....

We do not restrict organizations such as the OSCE in regards to witnessing our elections here. Our president does not form US nationalist groups such as NASHI in order to provoke riots in neighboring countries such as Canada and Mexico, nor does the US government try and revise history books in order to make genocide ok. We committed genocide against the Indians here and we teach that in our history...and nowhere does it say that it was "ok". We also do not try to fix elections with our neighbors in Canada and Mexico...at least to my knowledge.

When Obama starts putting hits out on journalist in broad daylight in the streets of DC I'l be sure to post about it here, but until then I don't see much of a comparison. As far as "forms of democracy" that fits right in there with "controlled democracy" which is a word Tsar Putin and his cronies came up with.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Why_Me

[ONA 133]

The problems with the businessmen put in jail is that they are thieves too. They just refused to share, that's it. If they weren't thieves, it would've been a lot harder to put them to jail.

As for teaching history - it is taught in the way that's good for the government. And it is valid for the USA as well. Maybe, killing Indians is not the case, but there is soooo much stuff that can be misinterpreted...

BTW, nobody tells Russian kids that what Stalin did was in any way OK. We're taught that he was killing Ukrainians, Caucasians etc. along with Russians, while in Ukraine they believe that Russian people hated Ukrainians and that's why they killed a bunch of them. NO. Everyone suffered.

[Brad and Vika 129]

First off, I do believe that there are different forms of democracy that work. There are constitutional monarchies all over, for example.

The occupy movement is a good example of the similarities between the way Russia and the US deal with dissidents imo. The protest goes on for a period, then police use tear gas and crowd clearing techniques, arresting the leaders and most vocal. The main difference between Russian opposition protesters and occipiers seems to be that the Russians are aware of exactly what they are protesting from the start, and the probability that they will be punished for doing so. The occupiers have been slow to form a real agenda (protesting banks and rich people generally is just weak), and seem to believe that they won't be punished or arrested. It looks to me like the governments are reacting the same way though.