I avoided girls from Mindanao

[gretchen_darren 67]

I didn't limit myself in the search. At first, I focused on Slavic women. And looked there. Then over time, I started looking at Hispanic women. Then finally, I started looking at Asian women. I got burned sometimes along the way. And learned a lot as well. But when searching for a girl. I was n time blessed. I did not compromise on what I wanted, what my dreamgirl was. i had my goals set high. The dreamgirl i found was much higher then the goals I set. I was truly blessed. I did not compromise for less then what I wanted. My dreamgirl is more then I ever prayed for. The weirdest part? She is from Mindanao!!! To me an angel from the heavens above.

[Messybrownhair 251]

Eh. Manila is just as bad if not worse and Im from there Funny thread!

[Dan and Judy 614]

The weirdest part? She is from Mindanao!!! To me an angel from the heavens above.

Nothing weird about that. It's the land of Promise. Congradulations

[rlogan 2,036]

It is important to understand that prior to Philippine National government immigration program in the 1960's, Mindanao was over 90% Muslim. This is not just a matter of religion. In the Muslim world, title to property like fields, forests, etc. was recognized through a Datu who also administered what we in the West refer to as Judicial and Executive authority. They did not have the system of government we have. The huge wave of immigrants sent there by the government on "settlement" programs included Communist guerilla fighters menacing central Luzon, in a "lay down your weapons for land" program. Rebels from other areas too, and of course masses of immigrants just wanting land the government was promising them. They march in with titles to land the national government had written, and the Datus and clans are shunted aside and told "you have no paper titles like we do". Go to court and enforce your titles. Oh, that's right they are our courts. We don't recognize yours.

This led to bloodshed, duh. It doesn't really matter who started the shooting although the record seems to say it is the settlers who formed a vigilante army first, I think they called themselves the Rats or something. But over 120,000 people have died in this land war so far. It is not a religious war per se. It is a land or resource war where the Moro people were just shoved aside and are now the minority there, most heavily concentrated in what is called the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao. This was a settlement between the Moro, represented by the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) and the national government in recognition of ancestral land claims and the right to self-governence on Mindanao. That settlement was not enough for some of the rebels, which repudiated the settlement and formed the MILF - Moro Islamic Liberation Front - and that is who is still fighting the National Government, along with some New People's Army commie thugs operating outside Davao City and of course these terrorists Abu-Sayyef which are nothing more than extortion gangs.

The ARMM agreement was thrown out by the Supreme Court some years ago now because individual barangays (precincts) were not given the right to opt out by vote. The boundaries were settled by negotiation between the Philippine National Government and MNLF, but individual barangays were supposed to be consulted in the process and they weren't. We live outside Iligan City, right at the boundary of the ARMM. The MILF blew up a bridge we use, a grocery store we shop in, and Steve Kindy was asssassinated there last year and the culprit not found, although he was a Maranao for sure, just assassinating an American. There are numerous military and police checkpoints between the house we built and the Palao fish market in downtown Iligan City. There are zero of such checkpoints in the cities of the USA. Do not out of ignorance compare a city in the USA to a war zone with ongoing clashes and negotiations between the national government and rebel forces.

The longer history on Mindanao is that after the Spanish conquest in the 1500's, the Moro people (and other scattered tribal peoples) were never subdued by the Spanish and fought them all the way up to the Spanish-American war in 1898, after which the Americans tricked General Aguinaldo of the Philippines into allying themselves with the Americans for the purpose of Philippines Independence. After the Spanish were defeated, the US turned on General Aguinaldo and said thank you very much but we are taking the Philippines now. That was the start of the Philippine-US war, which was most spectacularly vicious on Mindanao. It was crowned with the Moro Massacre where the brave US forces stood on a crater rim launching mortars and heavy weapons fire on Moro men, women, and children armed with spears, a few muskets and black powder in coconut shells. The use of water torture was pioneered by the Americans in the Philippines, most especially on Mindanao. All these people wanted was to be free of paying taxes to the US and to have sovereignty over their own lands and people.

That is what some people still recall insofar as Americans and it is understandable why they resent us. The "Christians" on Mindanao were fighting with the Americans against the Japanese in WWII, but the Moro remained independent from either of them. The delegates to the US, when Philippines was granted independence from the US after WWII urged that the US address the sovereignty of the Moro and others on Mindanao that were still feircly fighting their independence. But instead of doing that, the Philippine National Government was recognized in the treaty, and there remained other rebel groups like the NPA elsewere in the Philippines also rejecting the treaty. These other rebel groups were shipped off to Mindanao in the land settlement with the national government in the 60's.

The people of the Philippines threw the US Military out of their country back in the 90's. But naturally, even after getting kicked out of the Philippines the US has worked its way in again, and what could be better than locating a covert base in the capital city of the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao? (Marawi). We've actually done that. Oh, yes and Naval implacements being built in the South and Southwest for threatening China in the Pratley Islands over undersea oil. This the muslim rebels see as the US and Philippine government allied with one another in perpetuating loss of sovereignty for them in a way that is not even tolerated elsewhere in the Philippines.

The huge swath of agricultural land spanning Cotobato and Davao is owned by the Dole Philippines, consolidated after these colonization programs that took title from the indigenous people without recognizing their ancestral claims. This is one of the largest corporations in the world, and I think I tracked down the owner in California, a reclusive billionaire. Let's say you are a landless peasant looking out over the billionare's fields that in your mind have been seized from your ancestors by force of arms. It is easy to see why that guy takes up arms. It is easy to understand that their tactics must be guerila war because they are the lesser force. Both the Philippine National government and the US are your enemies.

There is still a war and negotiations going on with the MILF and the national government on Mindanao. I understand one of the MILF's points. They say the last agreement with the ARMM created a corrupt monstrosity with graft, corruption, cronyism, and political crime. You see, it did not really create sovereignty over the land and resources like the lake that is the source of nearly all the electricity on Mindano. Lake Lanao. Otherwise they'd be getting paid for the hydro power and instead the government just took it. That is why the rebels were blowing up transmission towers. Not because they're mindlessly destroying property, but because that is the logical thing to attack when you are angry about them taking power without paying for it.

At any rate, the Philippine national government gives money to the ARMM who administers it in fine corrupt fashion, and you have mayors running around like on Maguindanao in armed escorts even machine-gunning down a caravan of people peacefully assembling to register a candidate for Mayor. They stopped the convoy of unarmed journalists and shot about fifty of them dead just for daring to run in an election. The mayor personally massacred most of them. So doesn't the MILF have a point? This is what is going on inside the ARMM, and besides the supreme court has thrown the whole thing out. Chaos. The people say the government is involved directly in drug trafficking too and This thing has got to be re-negotiated in a way that recognizes and thereby extinguishes the ancestral land claims, instead of putting them on the dole. When you do that, elections are now about controlling the money the national government is showering on administration of the ARMM, and even drug-running, extortion, and all in the worst places.

So on Mindanao of course you have islands of calm like Cagayan de Oro, and inside the city of Davao, and other places, but there are also areas where if you want to commit suicide then just go and make sure you look like a rich arrogant american parading around. Grab a muslim girl by the butt when you are drunk and staggering out on the streets of Zamboanga.

[David & Kezia 25]

It is important to understand that prior to Philippine National government immigration program in the 1960's, Mindanao was over 90% Muslim. This is not just a matter of religion. In the Muslim world, title to property like fields, forests, etc. was recognized through a Datu who also administered what we in the West refer to as Judicial and Executive authority. They did not have the system of government we have. The huge wave of immigrants sent there by the government on "settlement" programs included Communist guerilla fighters menacing central Luzon, in a "lay down your weapons for land" program. Rebels from other areas too, and of course masses of immigrants just wanting land the government was promising them. They march in with titles to land the national government had written, and the Datus and clans are shunted aside and told "you have no paper titles like we do". Go to court and enforce your titles. Oh, that's right they are our courts. We don't recognize yours.

This led to bloodshed, duh. It doesn't really matter who started the shooting although the record seems to say it is the settlers who formed a vigilante army first, I think they called themselves the Rats or something. But over 120,000 people have died in this land war so far. It is not a religious war per se. It is a land or resource war where the Moro people were just shoved aside and are now the minority there, most heavily concentrated in what is called the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao. This was a settlement between the Moro, represented by the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) and the national government in recognition of ancestral land claims and the right to self-governence on Mindanao. That settlement was not enough for some of the rebels, which repudiated the settlement and formed the MILF - Moro Islamic Liberation Front - and that is who is still fighting the National Government, along with some New People's Army commie thugs operating outside Davao City and of course these terrorists Abu-Sayyef which are nothing more than extortion gangs.

The ARMM agreement was thrown out by the Supreme Court some years ago now because individual barangays (precincts) were not given the right to opt out by vote. The boundaries were settled by negotiation between the Philippine National Government and MNLF, but individual barangays were supposed to be consulted in the process and they weren't. We live outside Iligan City, right at the boundary of the ARMM. The MILF blew up a bridge we use, a grocery store we shop in, and Steve Kindy was asssassinated there last year and the culprit not found, although he was a Maranao for sure, just assassinating an American. There are numerous military and police checkpoints between the house we built and the Palao fish market in downtown Iligan City. There are zero of such checkpoints in the cities of the USA. Do not out of ignorance compare a city in the USA to a war zone with ongoing clashes and negotiations between the national government and rebel forces.

The longer history on Mindanao is that after the Spanish conquest in the 1500's, the Moro people (and other scattered tribal peoples) were never subdued by the Spanish and fought them all the way up to the Spanish-American war in 1898, after which the Americans tricked General Aguinaldo of the Philippines into allying themselves with the Americans for the purpose of Philippines Independence. After the Spanish were defeated, the US turned on General Aguinaldo and said thank you very much but we are taking the Philippines now. That was the start of the Philippine-US war, which was most spectacularly vicious on Mindanao. It was crowned with the Moro Massacre where the brave US forces stood on a crater rim launching mortars and heavy weapons fire on Moro men, women, and children armed with spears, a few muskets and black powder in coconut shells. The use of water torture was pioneered by the Americans in the Philippines, most especially on Mindanao. All these people wanted was to be free of paying taxes to the US and to have sovereignty over their own lands and people.

That is what some people still recall insofar as Americans and it is understandable why they resent us. The "Christians" on Mindanao were fighting with the Americans against the Japanese in WWII, but the Moro remained independent from either of them. The delegates to the US, when Philippines was granted independence from the US after WWII urged that the US address the sovereignty of the Moro and others on Mindanao that were still feircly fighting their independence. But instead of doing that, the Philippine National Government was recognized in the treaty, and there remained other rebel groups like the NPA elsewere in the Philippines also rejecting the treaty. These other rebel groups were shipped off to Mindanao in the land settlement with the national government in the 60's.

The people of the Philippines threw the US Military out of their country back in the 90's. But naturally, even after getting kicked out of the Philippines the US has worked its way in again, and what could be better than locating a covert base in the capital city of the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao? (Marawi). We've actually done that. Oh, yes and Naval implacements being built in the South and Southwest for threatening China in the Pratley Islands over undersea oil. This the muslim rebels see as the US and Philippine government allied with one another in perpetuating loss of sovereignty for them in a way that is not even tolerated elsewhere in the Philippines.

The huge swath of agricultural land spanning Cotobato and Davao is owned by the Dole Philippines, consolidated after these colonization programs that took title from the indigenous people without recognizing their ancestral claims. This is one of the largest corporations in the world, and I think I tracked down the owner in California, a reclusive billionaire. Let's say you are a landless peasant looking out over the billionare's fields that in your mind have been seized from your ancestors by force of arms. It is easy to see why that guy takes up arms. It is easy to understand that their tactics must be guerila war because they are the lesser force. Both the Philippine National government and the US are your enemies.

There is still a war and negotiations going on with the MILF and the national government on Mindanao. I understand one of the MILF's points. They say the last agreement with the ARMM created a corrupt monstrosity with graft, corruption, cronyism, and political crime. You see, it did not really create sovereignty over the land and resources like the lake that is the source of nearly all the electricity on Mindano. Lake Lanao. Otherwise they'd be getting paid for the hydro power and instead the government just took it. That is why the rebels were blowing up transmission towers. Not because they're mindlessly destroying property, but because that is the logical thing to attack when you are angry about them taking power without paying for it.

At any rate, the Philippine national government gives money to the ARMM who administers it in fine corrupt fashion, and you have mayors running around like on Maguindanao in armed escorts even machine-gunning down a caravan of people peacefully assembling to register a candidate for Mayor. They stopped the convoy of unarmed journalists and shot about fifty of them dead just for daring to run in an election. The mayor personally massacred most of them. So doesn't the MILF have a point? This is what is going on inside the ARMM, and besides the supreme court has thrown the whole thing out. Chaos. The people say the government is involved directly in drug trafficking too and This thing has got to be re-negotiated in a way that recognizes and thereby extinguishes the ancestral land claims, instead of putting them on the dole. When you do that, elections are now about controlling the money the national government is showering on administration of the ARMM, and even drug-running, extortion, and all in the worst places.

So on Mindanao of course you have islands of calm like Cagayan de Oro, and inside the city of Davao, and other places, but there are also areas where if you want to commit suicide then just go and make sure you look like a rich arrogant american parading around. Grab a muslim girl by the butt when you are drunk and staggering out on the streets of Zamboanga.

You always make a very good analysis, Bob. Among all the americans in this sub-forum, you are the one who seems to understand almost everything about the Filipino and the Philippines, sometimes even more than my countrymen themselves. Many of us live in ignorance and only chooses to believe what they are told in the mass media and the "authorities".

Kudos to you!

:-)

Kezia

[rlogan 2,036]

You always make a very good analysis, Bob. Among all the americans in this sub-forum, you are the one who seems to understand almost everything about the Filipino and the Philippines, sometimes even more than my countrymen themselves. Many of us live in ignorance and only chooses to believe what they are told in the mass media and the "authorities".

Kudos to you!

:-)

Kezia

Thank you so much Kezia. I have the OP on ignore because he represents just the kind of arrogance and ignorance many locals resent so much, and rightly so. But it is important others come to an understanding of Mindanao's history because understanding brings friendship while hubris breeds war.

One of the great tragedies on Mindanao is that the Christian children are not taught in the schools why there is a war. The second and now third-generation Christian children born there don't know the Moro and other indigenous peoples had their land taken from them. It is impossible to settle such things without first admitting to the wrongs we have perpetrated. At least the Philippine National government acknowledges this and is negotiating instead of just killing. There are powerful US corporate interests, like Dole, that also do not want any attention to how they acquired huge swaths of the best land on Mindanao. If you live between Cotabato and Davao though, and your grandparents have passed this history to you orally then you despise both the Philippine national government and the USA. A rich arrogant American is someone you would like to assassinate for revenge if your forefathers were tortured to death, massacred, or had their land stolen by them.

The USA continues now with its corruption of the Philippine national government and dividing the people by re-establishing naval port facilities on Mindanao illegally, doing the joint military exercises, and most incredibly establishing a secret facility in the capital city of the Autonomous Region of Muslim Mindanao (in Marawi). A translator was murdered there in extremely suspicious circumstances and of course the US blocked investigation. You have a general who ran off with money the US gave for these joint exercises, and the politicians are also going against the Philippine constitution in return for the money they get.

The US is right now most concerned with threatening the Chinese over the Spratley Islands and that is why they have given the money for naval port facilities on Mindanao. We are doing exactly the wrong thing by injecting ourselves militarily in a situation we have no business over. This too can only be solved peacefully through negotiations - mostly between China, Vietnam and the Philippines. But the US only understands "negotiation" with bombs and bullets.

[calico1 1]

Thanks to rlogan for a very informative read. I am married to a woman from CDO and have traveled and lived there a number of times. It didn't take me long to understand there was 2 different worlds going on in Phili, one of history and political battle and corruption, and the other which most average Americans see... the modern tourist seeking love in paradise land. Many of us have successfully traveled to and met and married our wives from the Philippines, but now that I think about it, I don't think I would wander around Mindanao jungles or the back streets of Manila after dark like I used to... The Philippines is a wonderous place...and to the original OP, I don't think it really matters what part of the Philippines you choose to meet a girl...but one should do as much research as possible about the particular part of the Philippines you are interested in. Had I had done more research years ago I may have never gone to the Philippines, but I did and just celebrated 3 years of marriage to my wonderful asawa. Would I do it again? hmm..different post different time.. lol.. yeah I recommend research..start with "The History of The Philippines"