Going *back* to Ukraine

[eekee 182]

Yeah, that's generally the case in the FSU. Museums will even officially have foreigner prices and citizen prices. But if you stick around the country and get to know the language well enough, the special "foreigner tax" will no longer apply.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah, that's generally the case in the FSU. Museums will even officially have foreigner prices and citizen prices. But if you stick around the country and get to know the language well enough, the special "foreigner tax" will no longer apply.

Despite the fact that people will try to get as much money as your ignorance allows (and maybe it is an "ignorance tax" more than a foreigner tax) the people of the FSU are very gracious to visitors, I have found, even to the point of embarrassing you sometimes.

When we went for Alla's police certificate we had to show our ID to enter the building, she showed her internal passport and I showed my US passport. The guard was impressed that he had a visitor all the way from Amerika and helped us to get ahead in the line. We waited in the hallway and at 5pm a crabby old lady came out of one of the offices and started shouting that "We are closing now! Go Home, Get out! Come back tomorrow" You HAVE to be there to see this, it is incredible. I thought she was going to pull out a stick and start beating people. So the guard pushes open an office door and more or less shoves Alla through it to get her in the office before they close and then starts shouting back at the woman that there is a foreigner here, an Amerikan, and she should stop making Ukrainians look like pigs in front of our guest from Amerika. The woman locked her eyes immediately on me, (why me?) then stomped off and SLAMMED the door to her office. t is one of the reasons I love Ukraine, never a dull moment.

[slim 1,514]

if you stick around the country and get to know the language well enough, the special "foreigner tax" will no longer apply.

Unless you're a fat guy like me. They can just tell. "Oh, he's American." I will not wear tight clothes and carry a man purse. I WILL NOT!!!

[ONA 133]

The worst are the private drivers, I always have Alla hire the driver if we use a car. Amerikans will pay 3-4 times higher prices for drivers and you had better have some small bills with you. Stupid Americans carry around 50, 100, 200 UAH notes. The drivers quote you 60 or 75 UAH for a ride...you have a 100. Oops, sorry, no change. Make sure you get plenty of 1, 2, 5, and 10 UAH notes.

Or you can have somebody Russian/Ukrainian with you - then it turns into "well, go to the nearest store and get the change!" Works for me!

Edited August 2, 2011 by ONA

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Or you can have somebody Russian/Ukrainian with you - then it turns into "well, go to the nearest store and get the change!" Works for me!

As I said, it is more an "ignorance tax"

[TBoneTX 44,679]

We run into some of this. If you shop at the grocery store or mall, no. The prices are marked and that is what you pay.

Same as in Ecu, si man.

YES they can always spot an AmeriKan and try to empty your wallet as much as possible [...] "Are you crazy, it is two small screws!"

You nicely avoided being, uh, screwed, man. Interestingly, in the markets in Ecu (thinking flea-markets here), there may be prices on most things, but even if the potential customer is American, the vendors will usually be open to bargaining. And, when we were in Mrs. T-B.'s rather small hometown, she urgently cautioned me "Don't argue or complain about any prices! They already think that Gringos are cheap!" The biggest challenges were getting them to recognize our $2 bills, and to accept that dollar coins now had our Presidents on them and weren't just the Amerind chick (Sacagawea or whoever was on it in 2000-2001).

The drivers quote you 60 or 75 UAH for a ride...you have a 100. Oops, sorry, no change. Make sure you get plenty of 1, 2, 5, and 10 UAH notes.

The same in Ecu, but for different reasons. Bills larger than a $20 may not be accepted, because there's a lot of counterfeited currency down there (Ecu uses the U.S. dollar). And/or, people simply may not have the change. My first trip, I quickly ran out of smaller bills and really regretted it, si man.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The markets, we may call them "flea markets" but in Ukraine they are much more than that, are still very popular. My MIL will not shop anywhere else and Alla prefers to shop there. In the Soviet Union it was where you got the "good stuff". In general private business was illegal but farmers were allowed small plots of land to grow and sell produce and they got to keep the money, so they put more into the produce and got better results. Other small businesses were at least tolerated as long as they did not have employees which was a serious crime. There were guys there, and still are, that could fix your shoes, your handbag, your zipper, sew you a dress (Alla's wedding dress was made by a woman that has a booth at the market) It is also a social place. My MIL goes to the market every day, in the morning, and meets her friends and they yack about things old Ukrainian women yack about. Mostly old Ukrainian men, probably.

The average Ukrainian was not underfed then or now, but the diet was very bland and boring. The market is where they got things like lemons, or a different variety of apples or the good corn, etc. So this belief that the market is the best place and the "state stores" were trash still persists to a degree, even though the state stores are now private and have better quality things. Now the market is the cheaper place to shop, it used to be more expensive than the state stores but better quality.

Aside from that, there is nothing like Lowe's, Home Depot or even Ace Hardware in Ukraine and few people are DIY'ers like here. Few people own homes in cities, they own or rent apartments and get someone else to fix stuff. There actually are a couple of large home centers now in Ukraine, similar to a Lowes, but when you do not have a car, how do you get there and how to you get big stuff home? At any rate, I am the fix-it guy for our flat and for my MIL across the street. I go to the market and rummage through the stuff of the guys selling hardware, plumbing parts, electrical parts, etc. For me it is fun and more challenging than buying a pre-packaged bag of screws at Lowe's. I am going there in a couple of weeks and Momma has a list for me. Alla has multiple lists for me.

My MIL usually takes me along to the market with her because Alla is usually still sleeping when she goes and I am her "mool" (mule) I learn all sorts of valuable lessons. "Do not buy clean eggs, there is something wrong with them, that is why they clean them, they are probably old" How to properly squeeze bread, buy apples (there are yellow apples or red apples) etc. Great stuff.

[eekee 182]

that's odd; everyone seems to do their own remont here.

[Lena and Igor 5]

Will UA also raise monthly pension payments?

http://www.kmu.gov.ua/control/en/publish/article?art_id=46773326&cat_id=2291893

[james&olya 1,121]

Aside from that, there is nothing like Lowe's, Home Depot or even Ace Hardware in Ukraine and few people are DIY'ers like here. Few people own homes in cities, they own or rent apartments and get someone else to fix stuff. There actually are a couple of large home centers now in Ukraine, similar to a Lowes,

When I was in Kyiv last summer I found these large home centers. There were several that appeared identical on the outside. The one I went in looked almost exactly like the Lowes or Home Depots here! I think there was one in Kharkov as well! As a big-time DIY person I wanted to buy some type of hand tool to bring back as a souvenir but everything was made in China, western Europe or the US! I did find a ratcheting plastic pipe cutter made in Russia but I had to look a long time to find it. The brands and products sold were the same generally that we have here.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

When I was in Kyiv last summer I found these large home centers. There were several that appeared identical on the outside. The one I went in looked almost exactly like the Lowes or Home Depots here! I think there was one in Kharkov as well! As a big-time DIY person I wanted to buy some type of hand tool to bring back as a souvenir but everything was made in China, western Europe or the US! I did find a ratcheting plastic pipe cutter made in Russia but I had to look a long time to find it. The brands and products sold were the same generally that we have here.

There is one in Donetsk also. It is outside the city and kind of far to go if you do not have a car. I was prowling it last summer with our friend Lesha. He is one of the few Ukrainians that owns a home and is remodeling it himself. Aside from the fact that it was too far away for anyone without car and it would be difficult to bring home a new door on the bus, I found that most of their wares were display items only and had to be ordered. Though it was a big place, similar in size to a Lowe's or Home Depot.

I was curious about the power tools and found many of them to be heavy iron framed monsters from China, like the old circular saws we had here years ago. There were some more modern, lightweight tools, like the ones we have here and they were priced accordingly

While it is not strictly true to say they do not have these stores, they are not easily accessible to most Ukrainians. Donetsk (1 million + people) has one of these stores. The other side of the parking lot (parking lot!) had one of the Amctop (Amstore)supermarkets which is identical to our supermarkets but with a smaller freezer section. It looked like one the Lowes/Walmart conglomerations we have here.

[Captain Hammer 113]

Unless you're a fat guy like me. They can just tell. "Oh, he's American." I will not wear tight clothes and carry a man purse. I WILL NOT!!!

The trick to getting around the "foreigner" prices is to let your fiancee/wife buy them while you wait around the corner. Then you both enter on the "locals" tickets, preferably during a busy time. You keep your mouth shut til you're in. The times we could see that the ticket taker was going to say something, she'd distract them by asking where something was, or complaining that the floor was cracked and she almost slipped, or something like that. That worked most of the time, then during the times we were caught, we'd plead ignorance and then just payed a small "fine."

[james&olya 1,121]

There is one in Donetsk also. It is outside the city and kind of far to go if you do not have a car. I was prowling it last summer with our friend Lesha. He is one of the few Ukrainians that owns a home and is remodeling it himself. Aside from the fact that it was too far away for anyone without car and it would be difficult to bring home a new door on the bus, I found that most of their wares were display items only and had to be ordered. Though it was a big place, similar in size to a Lowe's or Home Depot.

I was curious about the power tools and found many of them to be heavy iron framed monsters from China, like the old circular saws we had here years ago. There were some more modern, lightweight tools, like the ones we have here and they were priced accordingly

While it is not strictly true to say they do not have these stores, they are not easily accessible to most Ukrainians. Donetsk (1 million + people) has one of these stores. The other side of the parking lot (parking lot!) had one of the Amctop (Amstore)supermarkets which is identical to our supermarkets but with a smaller freezer section. It looked like one the Lowes/Walmart conglomerations we have here.

Having these stores over there has planted an idea in my head. Probably a bad idea but I am curious as to what others with more knowledge and experience think. Would it be possible for a very experienced DIY person to be able to buy or lease property (with his FSU wife) and be allowed to build his own home over there? Perhaps with a few small 'gifts' to the right people? I have built several homes here myself completely from the ground up and have seen the stores there with all the necessary materials available. Olya has no idea whether it is possible relative to permits and regulations. I would love to have a small place there outside one of the better cities to stay in when we visit there.

[Captain Hammer 113]

Having these stores over there has planted an idea in my head. Probably a bad idea but I am curious as to what others with more knowledge and experience think. Would it be possible for a very experienced DIY person to be able to buy or lease property (with his FSU wife) and be allowed to build his own home over there? Perhaps with a few small 'gifts' to the right people? I have built several homes here myself completely from the ground up and have seen the stores there with all the necessary materials available. Olya has no idea whether it is possible relative to permits and regulations. I would love to have a small place there outside one of the better cities to stay in when we visit there.

Leasing or buying a place wouldn't be difficult, you just need the money. And it's a buyers market over there right now, probably no need to grease any palms at all. As far as staying and living over there? Are you talking about living there legally or il-?

[james&olya 1,121]

Leasing or buying a place wouldn't be difficult, you just need the money. And it's a buyers market over there right now, probably no need to grease any palms at all. As far as staying and living over there? Are you talking about living there legally or il-?

I know we could buy an apartment in the city. What I want to know is how difficult it is to be allowed to do all your own building from the ground up. Many jurisdictions here in the US make it difficult to impossible. Fortunately for me I live where it is relatively easy to do as far as building permits and inspections are concerned. We would probably never be there for more than a month or two at a time. It seems a great place to visit but neither of us wants to make it our year-round residence.