Permission for Permanent Residence Abroad (OVIR)

[Lana & Jesse 1]

Dear all,

Kindly share your experince/views on the matter.

I has just recieved my K-1 visa; and some papers the Embassy gave me included a Letter from the Council, explaining the K-1 visa meaning, and another piece of paper, advising to obtain Permission for Permanent Residence Aboad (PPRA).

Quote:"All the CIS citizens are required to obtain PPRA from your local migration police office (formely OVIR)." AND "We strogly recommend that you obtain PPRA prior to departing your home country."

I've looked through some local forums, but I couldn't find any definite answers to WHY do I need it. I read somewhere that this "permit" (which is actually a stamp) is not required anymore and that it's actually a violation to human rights or something similar.

As far as I understood the permit means that I can leave the country and is kind of an "exit visa".

Dear Admin,

I had doubts where to post this topic... I think Central Asian countries that are part of the CIS should be moved to Russian devision rather than European one. We do have much more common rules and procedures with Russians.

Lana

[slim 1,514]

I've never heard of this. I wonder if this is something that's required from CIS governments or the US government. As far as I know, the US doesn't care if you have permission from your home country to live abroad. However, they probably include this paperwork as a courtesy to the other country.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I've never heard of this. I wonder if this is something that's required from CIS governments or the US government. As far as I know, the US doesn't care if you have permission from your home country to live abroad. However, they probably include this paperwork as a courtesy to the other country.

It is not an exit visa and you do not need it to exit, if you did the US consulate would require you get it before they issued a visa.

This is needed to protect your status in your home country, though there is really no way for them to know if you do not tell them. Most of us forget about that stuff...oops

As Slim notes, it is a courtesy to you. Say "thank you" and let it go at that.

Bad news? If it is like Ukraine, you will not be able to renew your passport and other things at the consulate of your country in the US unless you have this "stamp" For us, and many people, this is not a problem because we go to Ukraine at least once per year and can do those things then.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Lana & Jesse 1]

Thanks Slim and Gary and Anna for sharing!

Slim: The permit (stamp) is required by Kyrgyzstan (and all CIS) government. You're right, US don't care.

Alla and Gary: Apparently, some people (with immigrant visas - US, Canada, Europe) where not allowed to board without that stamp; others were saying that they wished they didn't have it, because they were forced to pay the bribe at the airport; and a few mentioned that they were totally fine without having that stamp. It doesn't seem like mare courtesy to me now; but more of a controversial and beurocratic necessety that I will most likely get for myself. Maybe things are different in Ukrain though...

I went to OVIR and they had a list of documents needed for the PPRA, among which I had to get a notorized letter from my parents, saying that they are ok with my departure. Mind you, I came f age a really while ago.

One possible excuse for getting that permit is to make sure I am not running away from assize or debts. So that border guards could look at the stamp and see that I am ok to leave. While my visa is an 'ok' sign for the US border security.

I still don't quite understand why I need it (and whether I need this permit at all), but I think I better get this ... stamp.

Best,

Lana

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I can only report that none of three Ukrainians in this household have this stamp and all have been back and forth several times (and we are about to do it again) and have never had a problem. We have arrived and departed from both Ukraine and Russia (this year we are going through Moscow as it was cheaper, sometimes it is cheaper to go through Kiev...go figure) Never a question.

The only "problem" we had was that when Pasha was old enough for his own passport we were not able to get iut done at the Ukrainian consulate in New York because he did not have this stamp. He had to get his passport on a return to trip to Ukraine.

[ONA 133]

I can only report that none of three Ukrainians in this household have this stamp and all have been back and forth several times (and we are about to do it again) and have never had a problem. We have arrived and departed from both Ukraine and Russia (this year we are going through Moscow as it was cheaper, sometimes it is cheaper to go through Kiev...go figure) Never a question.

Russia is even easier on that matter. Russian citizens aren't absolutely required to have this stamp, not even to find out about the debts, cause you can't leave Russia at all if you have any debt - you can't even go to Ukraine of any other FSU country. So what do they care? It all depends on what you want to do in Russia.

[eekee 182]

Doesn't this stamp require sacrificing your internal passport?

[Lana & Jesse 1]

Russia is even easier on that matter. Russian citizens aren't absolutely required to have this stamp, not even to find out about the debts, cause you can't leave Russia at all if you have any debt - you can't even go to Ukraine of any other FSU country. So what do they care? It all depends on what you want to do in Russia.

I'm glad that this rule is quite flexible for Russia and Ukraine. I hope Kyrgyzstan will be as flexible in some years. I know that the situation in Uzbekistan is much worse though, so it makes me feel less screwed

Well, I guess our government is still sticking to some middle age/soviet procedures as an excuse to get extra in the budget (hopefuly) or (most likely) in someone's pockets. Basicaly I can now choose whether to pay $50 and get the stamp (after a month of hussle) or to pay $100 at the airport to the border security in Bishkek (I mean it could happen that I won't have to pay, but it could also happen that the bribe is more than a hundred or maybe even won't be accepted).

So, right now I'm choosing the first option; and will post about the result.

Thanks to everyone for sharing!

[Lana & Jesse 1]

Doesn't this stamp require sacrificing your internal passport?

No, I don't think it's required. I will have to do so (give up my passports - ID card and international passport) whenever I get US citizenship.

[ONA 133]

Doesn't this stamp require sacrificing your internal passport?

As far as I know it means only that you're giving up your 'propiska' and become registered in the consulate abroad instead.

So, right now I'm choosing the first option; and will post about the result.

Please, keep us posted, I'm pretty sure, there might be people with the same problem here

[rika60607 215]

You can't cross borders and leave Russia if you have any debt?

Weird. I know for sure my father has a car loan, yet he travels all over EU all the time...

Russia is even easier on that matter. Russian citizens aren't absolutely required to have this stamp, not even to find out about the debts, cause you can't leave Russia at all if you have any debt - you can't even go to Ukraine of any other FSU country. So what do they care? It all depends on what you want to do in Russia.

[ONA 133]

You can't cross borders and leave Russia if you have any debt?

Weird. I know for sure my father has a car loan, yet he travels all over EU all the time...

Car loan isn't a debt... It's a car loan.

I was talking about actual debts - like when somebody didn't pay fines, child support or taxes etc.

Edited August 3, 2011 by ONA

[eekee 182]

Car loans are still debts. So is credit card debt, etc. You seem to be talking about government-mandated things.

isn't the internal passport not supposed to leave Russia? so yeah, if you give up your propiska, it seems like you wouldn't have the internal. I don't know anyone who gabe up the propiska in Russia, though.

Edited August 3, 2011 by eekee

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Car loan isn't a debt... It's a car loan.

I was talking about actual debts - like when somebody didn't pay fines, child support or taxes etc.

The wife owes thousands to Belarus for some school contract and she has to wait it out for four years before she can go back with some new law they made. It came down to getting a house, or her paying off her debt and the house won.

[ONA 133]

Car loans are still debts. So is credit card debt, etc. You seem to be talking about government-mandated things.

OK, I'm going to correct myself. In Russian there are 2 words for 'debt' - долг and задолженность. You're fine to leave the country if you have a задолженность, i.e. you're in the process of paying off your car/house/apartment/credit card bill etc. Your задолженность turns into a долг, when you stop payments and the bank decides to sue you - at that point you're likely to have problems trying to leave the country. Fines, child support etc. are also considered as долг.

isn't the internal passport not supposed to leave Russia? so yeah, if you give up your propiska, it seems like you wouldn't have the internal. I don't know anyone who gabe up the propiska in Russia, though.

No, they put a stamp into the internal passport, something like "снят с регистрационного учета" - then you have to take it with you abroad, they will need it in the consulate, to register you there. I'm not sure what they do next, but i don't think that they take the passport away.

And you can take the internal passport with you - first of all, when a person is going to Ukraine, they don't have to have travel passport at all, most people just take the internal passport to go there. And I always had my internal passport with me, when I was in the US too. Nobody cares.