Going to Kiev in 7 days, any tips?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hey thanks also... I live in Southern Cali for a little while and I never that many Bently's and Roll Royces as I seen in Kyiv.

Ummm I don't really know yet as far as if she is the one. I want to take it slow. I rushed before and that got me into trouble. She also feels the same. And my divorce never came up once in a whole week. I'm following my basic plan and if things are still good by next trip then it's good to say that we'll in for a long V-journey ahead. I am going back in July, I can't do next month, yes yes yes... I have to see that place in summer!! But she's a wonderful girl, extremely honest almost so honest that it hurts.. But that's a good thing because she will tell you what she is thinking exactly when she is thinking it.

Edited to say... YES I totally understand why RUB girls are the best!!

They are sometimes brutally honest.

LviviLovers is correct, Kiev is an expensive Ukrainian city, 30-40% more than Odessa for apartment rent.

Yes, there are some wealthy people, mostly people that were well connected during perestroika and got to buy a lot of state property for little or nothing. The communists did not evaporate, they "bought" everything cheap and rent it or sell it for a huge profit.

But I have been very pleased with the sincere way that they are not at all superifical and value things of lasting value. While appearances are important, it is not necessary for things to be hugely expensive, just neat and clean. As for men, be a good MAN, do what a MAN is supposed to do and you are gold. Keep your family number 1 and she will be loyal to you forever.

[slim 1,514]

I actually loved it. I wouldn't recommend it for beginners, I don't think it's worth the cost if you know NOTHING at all... pick up some language books and such and then it's a good investment. I went with a good grasp on Russian (intermediate level) and I wanted lessons in the country to "fill the gaps" (I was entirely self taught for about 8 years). Basically I could read very well but my conversational Russian was not so good since I learned from reading and not a lot of listening. They were excellent in those respects; slowed down when I didn't understand something (but not to a point that it was unnaturally slow).

I've taken other language lessons (German, French, etc) at the local university but they weren't as good because they weren't intensive (at least at my uni language lessons were 10 academic hours a week and the MGU course was 20) and they weren't challenging. The material was up-to-date and they helped me in the areas I specifically asked for (written composition and economics/politics/finance since those are my areas). And of course living in Russia, you're forced to use the language daily. Staying with a host family would've been even better in terms of language and culture acquisition but I like my privacy (and sanity) and chose to stay at the dorm (in comparison to my uni I found them cheap and pretty good except for the kitchens which were.... eh, usable).

So in short, it's really not worth the cost it if your knowledge of Russian is elementary or you have no interest in speaking Russian long-term for professional or academic purposes. I did it because I wanted to go to MGU for grad school and wanted to see how "good" I was before making a decision about it.

And also... the cost varies greatly depending on who you organize it through, in thousands of dollars. I went directly through the uni and it was a whole lot cheaper and more flexible with my schedule.

Thank you for the report. Your reasonings were exactly why I chose NOT to go there. It seemed pretty serious and I wanted to just dabble a little bit. MGU is serious. I wanted something for fun.

Another topic you could probably drop some insight on (and eekee too) is the possibility of making it over there as an English teacher/tutor. Would someone with basic Russian knowledge be able to go over there and find a decent enough job?

[ONA 133]

I always figured it was more or less fair for me to learn Arabic... also I was just really curious to figure out how he sounds in his native language. In addition, it would have been a nightmare to work there but not speak the language in a semi-functional way at the very least.

I think my fiance really lacks motivation. He's not the one, who's moving, so he definitely won't need Russian for his job... Maybe some time in the future when we have kids, there will be some motivation for him. I told him "our kids are going to speak both Russian and English" and he was like "so they'll be talking about me and I won't be able to understand? ". And all I said back was "that's your problem"

Thank you for the report. Your reasonings were exactly why I chose NOT to go there. It seemed pretty serious and I wanted to just dabble a little bit. MGU is serious. I wanted something for fun.

Another topic you could probably drop some insight on (and eekee too) is the possibility of making it over there as an English teacher/tutor. Would someone with basic Russian knowledge be able to go over there and find a decent enough job?

In my university they have various Russian language courses. First of all, a lot of students, who are going to study elsewhere in Russia do like a "preparation year", when they basically just study Russian and some aspects of Russian culture. I don't know if you absolutely have to study in one of Russian universities after that course, I think that it might not be necessary. But it's the elementary level, I think. Maybe can go up to the pre-intermediate, but not higher.

They also offer higher levels of the Russian language, but for that you either have to be enrolled in the university or be an exchange student - they have a bunch of students from Britain coming every semester, and from the USA (mostly enrolled in West Point Academy), so these programmes are also quite serious.

As for teaching - when I was in high school, we had a Scottish guy coming every now and then to our English classes and he was definitely paid for that. He was also giving lectures in some universities located in my city. I have no idea how much he was paid, but I know for sure that he could speak NO Russian at all.

Tutoring is one of those "off the table" jobs in Russia. It might be possible to get such a job if you find somebody, who just wants to practice their conversational English. Mostly people look for tutors pursuing some certain aim though... for example, they need a course of business English, or they want to improve some certain skills, or they just want to get a better grade at school/university - so basically, a lot of times people want somebody with an ESL teacher's degree, or at least a student working on this kind of degree. Payment is different, depends on how many hours you work, your work experience and whom you teach.

[eekee 182]

If you go to Moscow or St. Petersburg, at least, there are language schools all over the place and they will hire any native speaker of English, certified or not. Also, you can usually take Russian classes through your school for a discount rate.

There are also schools that will hire you from America, provide a month of training, etc. but they tend to involve more hours and a lower payrate per hour.

Are you considering moving, slim?

Edited April 5, 2011 by eekee

[eekee 182]

Oh, and I would say about half of the people I worked with when I worked at language schools in the past didn't really speak Russian at all. It's definitely not a requirement for the job.

[ONA 133]

Yeah, they have a whole lot of language schools in my city too (btw, they might also teach Russian to foreigners there), and they have some native speakers working for them, but I've always hoped that those native speakers are certified or at least have done some training.

[eekee 182]

Probably not, unless the school is the kind where they hire from abroad. If they put the effort into your invitation and visa, then they do training because if you totally fail at it, they wasted time and resources on you. Most places will SAY they require a certificate, but in reality, there's not exactly an excess of well-trained native English speakers hanging around Russia.

[baron555 934]

Yeah, they have a whole lot of language schools in my city too (btw, they might also teach Russian to foreigners there), and they have some native speakers working for them, but I've always hoped that those native speakers are certified or at least have done some training.

Little Leonid, now 3-3/4 yes has been here for over one year. Alla virtually always Speke to him in Russian and he virtually always speaks back in English but does understand what she is saying. She will teach him the numbers and English alphabet in Russian but it's all for English. I understand what she is saying but my spoken Russian is not good.

Many times he will ask for things in Russian. Little Misha ( who immigrated with his Mom on the same plane) visited lady Sunday; he's almost 5 and he is the same.

Children don't understand the difficulties of learning both languages at the same time.

The preschool teachers says that sometimes they all learn a Russian word from him.

I wouldn't sweat the teaching of both languages to children; it's easier fir them tban us.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Little Leonid, now 3-3/4 yes has been here for over one year. Alla virtually always Speke to him in Russian and he virtually always speaks back in English but does understand what she is saying. She will teach him the numbers and English alphabet in Russian but it's all for English. I understand what she is saying but my spoken Russian is not good.

Many times he will ask for things in Russian. Little Misha ( who immigrated with his Mom on the same plane) visited lady Sunday; he's almost 5 and he is the same.

Children don't understand the difficulties of learning both languages at the same time.

The preschool teachers says that sometimes they all learn a Russian word from him.

I wouldn't sweat the teaching of both languages to children; it's easier fir them tban us.

Pasha spoke very little English when he arrived and was in an ESL class immediately. He arrived in September and was finished with ESL before Christmas. After the Christmas break he was promoted from 8th grade to 10th grade,took regular English classes and finished 5th in his class in ENGLISH and speaks English very well now with very little accent. Besides his ESL, I worked with him abut 3 hours every night when he first arrived.

Children learn fast, especially when they are with other children their age.

[ONA 133]

Little Leonid, now 3-3/4 yes has been here for over one year. Alla virtually always Speke to him in Russian and he virtually always speaks back in English but does understand what she is saying. She will teach him the numbers and English alphabet in Russian but it's all for English. I understand what she is saying but my spoken Russian is not good.

Many times he will ask for things in Russian. Little Misha ( who immigrated with his Mom on the same plane) visited lady Sunday; he's almost 5 and he is the same.

Children don't understand the difficulties of learning both languages at the same time.

The preschool teachers says that sometimes they all learn a Russian word from him.

I wouldn't sweat the teaching of both languages to children; it's easier fir them tban us.

Thanks for your opinion, but I am pursuing a degree in linguistics and I have done a massive research on raising a bilingual kid for my psycholinguistics class, plus I actually keep reading books on the subject etc. and it occurs that it is hard, but possible if you do everything right.

Anyway, I'm going to try. If I don't my kids would never be able to speak to their grandparents (my parents) and I don't want that to happen. So, what I'm going to do is to speak only in Russian to my kids, while my fiance will speak only in English to them. If we have a baby-sitter, she's going to be Russian-speaking (and preferably old and fat ), also I would like to send them to a Russian school (elementary at least) and I think sending them for the whole summer to Russia sometimes will be a good thing to do also. That's a way to maintain Russian in the family, it'll be a lot easier for them to learn English living in the USA and talking to all the relatives etc. Plus I have a lot of time to do some more research on what actually works by the time we have kids (we're not planning on having kids for another 5-7 years).

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks for your opinion, but I am pursuing a degree in linguistics and I have done a massive research on raising a bilingual kid for my psycholinguistics class, plus I actually keep reading books on the subject etc. and it occurs that it is hard, but possible if you do everything right.

Anyway, I'm going to try. If I don't my kids would never be able to speak to their grandparents (my parents) and I don't want that to happen. So, what I'm going to do is to speak only in Russian to my kids, while my fiance will speak only in English to them. If we have a baby-sitter, she's going to be Russian-speaking (and preferably old and fat ), also I would like to send them to a Russian school (elementary at least) and I think sending them for the whole summer to Russia sometimes will be a good thing to do also. That's a way to maintain Russian in the family, it'll be a lot easier for them to learn English living in the USA and talking to all the relatives etc. Plus I have a lot of time to do some more research on what actually works by the time we have kids (we're not planning on having kids for another 5-7 years).

That seems to be a good way (you speak Russian, he speaks English) though now I would say 80% of the speaking in this house is Russian, but Pasha has plenty of English experience outside the house and so does Alla. We also havce to be careful not to let Pasha's Russian "stall"

[eekee 182]

Yeah, I think it's harder to get kids to retain their language when everything outside the house is English than teaching them the language in the first place. My mom doesn't speak her first language all that well anymore.

[baron555 934]

Thanks for your opinion, but I am pursuing a degree in linguistics and I have done a massive research on raising a bilingual kid for my psycholinguistics class, plus I actually keep reading books on the subject etc. and it occurs that it is hard, but possible if you do everything right.

Anyway, I'm going to try.

I'm going to be totally blunt with you ONA. You are coming off as being very selfish and planning on doing everything to "force" your children to learn Russian, regardless that they will be living in the US. Russian only elementary schools (good luck on finding one) and sending them back to Russia in the summers.....what about letting them live their lives as a kid and to be a kid and to have local friends so that they can grow into happy, well-adjusted young adults? Will your your parents love them any less if they don't speak perfect Russian to them? I don't think so.

Alla and I have discussed this in great depth concerning Leonid and we both feel as strongly as you do.....but we understand that he is living in the US and they speak English here and THAT will be his primary language. We would rather he have a greater command of that than any lesser command and know more Russian; we feel that by surrounding him in both languages (even though with preschool and all people he comes into everyday contact with) speak all English.

We do have Russian-class at home and he has and freely watches both English Dora and Russian Dora DVDs as well as hundreds of other Russian DVDs and childrens books Alla brought back with her.

We also realize that he himself will find his own comfort level with the languages; we don't try to force anything down his throat, 'lest we start to make it feel like he's being forced.

But......one reason why he is here (and one reason why my wife is here with me with him) is that he is being given the great opportunity to study and grow up in the US where we both feel he has more opportunities ahead of him to live a nice fulfilling life, and allow him the opportunity to make his own decisions about his future (and have some real abilities to fulfill those dreams.).

[eekee 182]

Why would knowing Russian make his English worse? Like I said, my mom's first language isn't English, she spoke no English at home growing up... and her English is fine.

Also, Ona's parents may not speak English, and I also don't see why spending summers in Russia would be a bad thing at all. I am just confused as to why you are attacking her for wanting her kids to know her language and homeland.

People are free to make these sorts of decisions in childrearing based on what they value and what they want for their kids. It's no one else's place to say what's wrong or right.

[james&olya 1,121]

I'm going to be totally blunt with you ONA. You are coming off as being very selfish and planning on doing everything to "force" your children to learn Russian, regardless that they will be living in the US. Russian only elementary schools (good luck on finding one) and sending them back to Russia in the summers.....what about letting them live their lives as a kid and to be a kid and to have local friends so that they can grow into happy, well-adjusted young adults? Will your your parents love them any less if they don't speak perfect Russian to them? I don't think so.

Alla and I have discussed this in great depth concerning Leonid and we both feel as strongly as you do.....but we understand that he is living in the US and they speak English here and THAT will be his primary language. We would rather he have a greater command of that than any lesser command and know more Russian; we feel that by surrounding him in both languages (even though with preschool and all people he comes into everyday contact with) speak all English.

We do have Russian-class at home and he has and freely watches both English Dora and Russian Dora DVDs as well as hundreds of other Russian DVDs and childrens books Alla brought back with her.

We also realize that he himself will find his own comfort level with the languages; we don't try to force anything down his throat, 'lest we start to make it feel like he's being forced.

But......one reason why he is here (and one reason why my wife is here with me with him) is that he is being given the great opportunity to study and grow up in the US where we both feel he has more opportunities ahead of him to live a nice fulfilling life, and allow him the opportunity to make his own decisions about his future (and have some real abilities to fulfill those dreams.).

FWIW, I don't see it being selfish at all to encourage children to learn a different language and culture. Just the opposite! What an incredible opportunity for a child! I feel that my own life has been enriched more than I ever would have imagined completely above and beyond the benefit of meeting my fiancee. I would love to have been able to give my children the opportunity that ONA describes. I hope she follows through and does it!