Small income, just real estate

[AlexFlorida2010 0]

Hi everybody,

here is the situation:

American wife + 2 kids, both already with Us passports.

She is the petitioner and the main sponsor. I am the immigrant.

She has not worked for the past 3 years, being overseas and taking care of the children, so she doesn't have any income.

Me: no income for 2011, used all savings to buy cash a 300k property in Italy.

I will include this asset in the sponsor’s (my wife) I864.

We are all still in Italy, waiting for me to get the visa.

Already registered the kids at school in Us. That should be enough to prove that my American wife will, of course, move to America with her immigrant husband.

Her parents, american citizens living in Usa: no employment income for 2011 but only 20k per year rental revenue generated by a house worth 150k.

They also own the house where they live, worth 400k.

All mortgages already paid in full.

They will file another I864 as Joint sponsor.

They will use the most recent Tax assessment instead of hiring an appraiser.

Here there are my questions:

1) We will all live in her parents house once I get my visa. Does it qualify us as an household of 6, for what the federal Poverty Guidelines are concerned? (father and mother in law,my wife, two kids and myself).

2) I will get my real estate in italy appraised by an italian licensed appraisal. How can I prove the following?: " The applicant must show that the assets can be removed from the country where they are located. Many countries have limits on cash or liquid assets that can removed from the country"

I mean it's Italy not Russia. But how can i prove to the Us embassy in Rome that anyone can wire funds from Italy to Usa, without limitations? Can I assume that they already have this information,since they operate in Italy, or do I have to bring a statement from my bank that says that whenever I sell the house they will be capable to transfer the money to Usa?

3) Now if we will be considered an household of 6, the 125% of the federal Poverty Guidelines threshold is $37,488.

In the I864’s there is a 20k rental income and 850k of mortgage-free real estate assets, of which 300k counts 1/3 (mine) and 550k counts 1/5 (her parents’)

If I do the the math, the assets count for more than 10 times the balance between the Poverty Guidelines threshold and my inlaws’ income from the house they rent out, but I have no experience in this matter so I would like to know if what above is enough to make me eligible for the immigration visa.

Thanks.

[pushbrk 12,618]

Hi everybody,

here is the situation:

American wife + 2 kids, both already with Us passports.

She is the petitioner and the main sponsor. I am the immigrant.

She has not worked for the past 3 years, being overseas and taking care of the children, so she doesn't have any income.

Me: no income for 2011, used all savings to buy cash a 300k property in Italy.

I will include this asset in the sponsor's (my wife) I864.

We are all still in Italy, waiting for me to get the visa.

Already registered the kids at school in Us. That should be enough to prove that my American wife will, of course, move to America with her immigrant husband.

Her parents, american citizens living in Usa: no employment income for 2011 but only 20k per year rental revenue generated by a house worth 150k.

They also own the house where they live, worth 400k.

All mortgages already paid in full.

They will file another I864 as Joint sponsor.

They will use the most recent Tax assessment instead of hiring an appraiser.

Here there are my questions:

1) We will all live in her parents house once I get my visa. Does it qualify us as an household of 6, for what the federal Poverty Guidelines are concerned? (father and mother in law,my wife, two kids and myself).

2) I will get my real estate in italy appraised by an italian licensed appraisal. How can I prove the following?: " The applicant must show that the assets can be removed from the country where they are located. Many countries have limits on cash or liquid assets that can removed from the country"

I mean it's Italy not Russia. But how can i prove to the Us embassy in Rome that anyone can wire funds from Italy to Usa, without limitations? Can I assume that they already have this information,since they operate in Italy, or do I have to bring a statement from my bank that says that whenever I sell the house they will be capable to transfer the money to Usa?

3) Now if we will be considered an household of 6, the 125% of the federal Poverty Guidelines threshold is $37,488.

In the I864's there is a 20k rental income and 850k of mortgage-free real estate assets, of which 300k counts 1/3 (mine) and 550k counts 1/5 (her parents')

If I do the the math, the assets count for more than 10 times the balance between the Poverty Guidelines threshold and my inlaws' income from the house they rent out, but I have no experience in this matter so I would like to know if what above is enough to make me eligible for the immigration visa.

Thanks.

1. Parents household should be stated as three. The two parents and the intending immigrant only. They'll need an I-864 and an I-864a for the joint filing and joint asset holding spouse.

2. US Consular officers in Italy know you can move unlimited cash but your asset isn't cash. The threshold to be concerned about is whether they'll consider your real estate as liquid per the I-864 instructions. I think they will.

3. Sounds like you've got things more than covered. Bear in mind though that the parents' income will be what appears on line 22 of their most recent tax return. Often people calculate their rental income based on 100% of the revenue but often, for the purposes of a tax return, that revenue is smaller than the depreciation and other deductions they take, making their "income" (from line 22) a negative rather than positive number. You need to know the dollar figure on line 22 and be certain it's a positive number. Otherwise, you're calculations are all wrong.

You even used the word "revenue" which would be about $1,700 a month in rent. That will not be the "income". Check the tax return.

Edited February 26, 2011 by pushbrk

[AlexFlorida2010 0]

1. Parents household should be stated as three. The two parents and the intending immigrant only. They'll need an I-864 and an I-864a for the joint filing and joint asset holding spouse.

2. US Consular officers in Italy know you can move unlimited cash but your asset isn't cash. The threshold to be concerned about is whether they'll consider your real estate as liquid per the I-864 instructions. I think they will.

3. Sounds like you've got things more than covered. Bear in mind though that the parents' income will be what appears on line 22 of their most recent tax return. Often people calculate their rental income based on 100% of the revenue but often, for the purposes of a tax return, that revenue is smaller than the depreciation and other deductions they take, making their "income" (from line 22) a negative rather than positive number. You need to know the dollar figure on line 22 and be certain it's a positive number. Otherwise, you're calculations are all wrong.

You even used the word "revenue" which would be about $1,700 a month in rent. That will not be the "income". Check the tax return.

First of all let me thank you for your quick reply.

Point 1: do you mean that my father in law will have to file an I864 and my mother in law an I864A?

Point 2: the real estate I own in Italy is the tipical investment property. It is a fully furnished apartment near the sea, that I bought as a vacation house for my family or eventually to rent out. At the moment nobody lives there since we all live in another city, in a rental flat.

Why do you think there could be some issues in considering this property "liquid"?

Point 3: I will check if line 22 is a negative. What happens if it is? Would their real estate be enough in that case?

[pushbrk 12,618]

First of all let me thank you for your quick reply.

Point 1: do you mean that my father in law will have to file an I864 and my mother in law an I864A?

Point 2: the real estate I own in Italy is the tipical investment property. It is a fully furnished apartment near the sea, that I bought as a vacation house for my family or eventually to rent out. At the moment nobody lives there since we all live in another city, in a rental flat.

Why do you think there could be some issues in considering this property "liquid"?

Point 3: I will check if line 22 is a negative. What happens if it is? Would their real estate be enough in that case?

1. Yes.

2. Read the I-864 instructions with regard to using assets. They will explain, "liquid".

3. It depend on how big a negative. Even if a positive it won't be 20k and least not just from the rental revenue.

The 3/1 and 5/1 ratios you used are for making up an income shortfall, so first you need to know what the shortfall is. If line 22 is negative then you add the negative number to the minimum income requirement to determine the shortfall. If the number is positive but less than the 20k you had in mind, then the shortfall is simply larger than you had in mind but not as large as if line 22 is negative.

I'm not really up at 4AM or 7AM. I'm in China, where it's 8PM Saturday.

Edited February 26, 2011 by pushbrk

[Darnell 8,478]

if you are listing beneficiary foreign asset to be included in the petitioner's I-864, remember the 1/5 th rule for asset computation.

it may or may not work, as well, as it's not the sponser's asset, at all.

[AlexFlorida2010 0]

if you are listing beneficiary foreign asset to be included in the petitioner's I-864, remember the 1/5 th rule for asset computation.

it may or may not work, as well, as it's not the sponser's asset, at all.

Hi Darnell,

as far as I understood since the sponsor is my wife, our home in italy could be included in her I864, and it should count for 1/3 not for 1/5.

I mean if I buy her a new car for Xmas, under my name not to spoil the surpise, is it considered "our" car or "my" car?

Our flat in Italy at 1/5 of the value is 60k. At 1/3 is 100k. I need 24k, not to consider my in-laws assets which I am going to include in the process just to be in the safe side.

[Darnell 8,478]

who's name is on the deed of the house? if not hers solely, then it's not hers, and therefore, the 1/3 rule not apply.

is slippery loophole for beneficiary's assets, be warned. what you think might work, prolly won't work - I'll find an Italy DCF filer post, they had serious problems for income, cash assets, other assets - took about a week to redo all ownership thingies in her name (solely).

watch this space, I'm off to search for ya.

[Darnell 8,478]

sorry, I can't find her exact post - but

use the google search bar here -

the user is 'christeen'

and I was wrong, she not do DCF at all, she filed via Chicago lockbox.

I remember some flurry of money transfers with her, she had to show assets in her name solely.

[Darnell 8,478]

also, there are other things to do to prove up either

'USA domicile'

or

'intent to re-establish USA domicile'

for the petitioner, this 'register kids in USA school' is actually something (IME) optional to use as proof.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Darnell

[AlexFlorida2010 0]

also, there are other things to do to prove up either

'USA domicile'

or

'intent to re-establish USA domicile'

for the petitioner, this 'register kids in USA school' is actually something (IME) optional to use as proof.

Do you mean that this proof is not necessary or that the school registration in not enough to prove her intent to re-establish Usa domicile?

[Darnell 8,478]

is not any 'primary' evidence, no.

[AlexFlorida2010 0]

is not any 'primary' evidence, no.

I mean we are going to open of course a bank account in us, put some cash, credit cards.

Wife and kids are moving over there in july because schools start in august.

I won't get my paperwork until september.

What other evidence they need?

[Darnell 8,478]

Already registered the kids at school in Us. That should be enough to prove that my American wife will, of course, move to America with her immigrant husband. 'should be enough' to me, implies, only need that one thing - when in fact, is entire other 'thing' for domicile.

use search engine here - terms: domicile Canada

yer wife will have the same issues.

[AlexFlorida2010 0]

Already registered the kids at school in Us. That should be enough to prove that my American wife will, of course, move to America with her immigrant husband. 'should be enough' to me, implies, only need that one thing - when in fact, is entire other 'thing' for domicile.

use search engine here - terms: domicile Canada

yer wife will have the same issues.

Hi Darnell,

I am sorry but even if i read what your wrote more than twice i still don't get the point.

There is a procedure that we are following since we are living outside Us, and the procedure goes through the consulates in Italy.

If we are here, we cannot be there in the same time.

We are going there, this is why I need a visa.

My wife and kids, all Us citizen, will leave before me since school cannot wait.

In the meantime she will take care of opening a bank account in Usa and start looking for a job.

She is a Us citizen, leaving her status of resident in Italy, going back to her own country.

We will live in her parents house, until we settle and find a place on our own.

Can you please suggest which other evidence she might need to bring that she is "there" and not "here"?

I mean are there cases out there of Us citizens sending his/her foreign spouse to America, while he/she remains abroad with the kids?

[pushbrk 12,618]

Hi Darnell,

I am sorry but even if i read what your wrote more than twice i still don't get the point.

There is a procedure that we are following since we are living outside Us, and the procedure goes through the consulates in Italy.

If we are here, we cannot be there in the same time.

We are going there, this is why I need a visa.

My wife and kids, all Us citizen, will leave before me since school cannot wait.

In the meantime she will take care of opening a bank account in Usa and start looking for a job.

She is a Us citizen, leaving her status of resident in Italy, going back to her own country.

We will live in her parents house, until we settle and find a place on our own.

Can you please suggest which other evidence she might need to bring that she is "there" and not "here"?

I mean are there cases out there of Us citizens sending his/her foreign spouse to America, while he/she remains abroad with the kids?

The evidence of domicile, is not filed with the petition. She send you evidence she's returned and established domicile, so you can take it to the visa interview.