Hi all... starting my journey

[Satellite 1]

you will have to have two incomes to do it.. which also means you will spend a lot more money to do 'things' since you are both working and neither have the time to do them... and you will not be saving for retirement, but will work well into your 60s or even 70s... this is exactly what I mean by people THINKING they must have two incomes to make ends meet.. you do not..

We certainly need two incomes if we don't want to rent the rest of our lives. I have to agree with you on that. But I disagree with you about working well into our 60's and beyond. Our greatest asset and retirement benefit is our over priced real estate. Guess what happens if we wanted to retire in Texas? One decent home sold in San Francisco gets you a whole block of decent homes in Texas.

If you wouldn't trade it for anything then don't complain, because different lifestyles are possible elsewhere in America. If you love California and what it has to offer, then you've chosen that lifestyle, so don't tell us how the other figures are skewed.

...

Apparently you don't care to move, so don't criticize the lifestyle of somewhere else or say "he's out of touch with reality", especially if you've never lived there, or never been there, even.

I wasn't really trying to complain. Sorry if it came out that way. I was simply trying to bring up a counter example of a place in America, a rather big and populace place where the breadwinner lifestyle, may be feasible but not practical.

And back to Texasproud who is a big advocate of the breadwinner lifestyle, I voiced my opinion how disappointed I would be in my wife if she was only a homemaker. I think of her as smart and brilliant, and we can always hire someone to clean the home if she is very successful in her career.

Just a different view of life. I guess I read too many feminism books and was not pleased with the 1950's breadwinner lifestyles. And if what you are describing modernly is somehow different, then clue me in.

What is different as I understand according to the articles I posted is that government programs and assistance has all gone down and the price of living has gone up. Making the breadwinner lifestyle in general difficult if you are someone one like me who does enjoy two cars, a nice vacation, a nice home in nice location, etc.

[Texas Proud 0]

you will have to have two incomes to do it.. which also means you will spend a lot more money to do 'things' since you are both working and neither have the time to do them... and you will not be saving for retirement, but will work well into your 60s or even 70s... this is exactly what I mean by people THINKING they must have two incomes to make ends meet.. you do not..

We certainly need two incomes if we don't want to rent the rest of our lives. I have to agree with you on that. But I disagree with you about working well into our 60's and beyond. Our greatest asset and retirement benefit is our over priced real estate. Guess what happens if we wanted to retire in Texas? One decent home sold in San Francisco gets you a whole block of decent homes in Texas.

If you wouldn't trade it for anything then don't complain, because different lifestyles are possible elsewhere in America. If you love California and what it has to offer, then you've chosen that lifestyle, so don't tell us how the other figures are skewed.

...

Apparently you don't care to move, so don't criticize the lifestyle of somewhere else or say "he's out of touch with reality", especially if you've never lived there, or never been there, even.

I wasn't really trying to complain. Sorry if it came out that way. I was simply trying to bring up a counter example of a place in America, a rather big and populace place where the breadwinner lifestyle, may be feasible but not practical.

And back to Texasproud who is a big advocate of the breadwinner lifestyle, I voiced my opinion how disappointed I would be in my wife if she was only a homemaker. I think of her as smart and brilliant, and we can always hire someone to clean the home if she is very successful in her career.

Just a different view of life. I guess I read too many feminism books and was not pleased with the 1950's breadwinner lifestyles. And if what you are describing modernly is somehow different, then clue me in.

What is different as I understand according to the articles I posted is that government programs and assistance has all gone down and the price of living has gone up. Making the breadwinner lifestyle in general difficult if you are someone one like me who does enjoy two cars, a nice vacation, a nice home in nice location, etc.

Hmmm.. I never said I was an advocate of what you are calling 'the breadwinner lifestyle'... which I assume you mean that old '50s lifestyle... I said that it is the predominate lifestyle for the people I work with... and I was giving a rebuttal to someone who was saying you NEED to have two incomes in the US.. and BTW... all of them have very nice houses (most in the 4,000 ft range), two or three cars... take good vacations... it is just much easier to do here than in expensive locations like NY, SF, Boston etc etc... And most of them would prefer their wifes to work, but they want to stay home and be 'Mom'.. all have at least two kids and some with three... so PLEASE don't read into my post YOUR thoughts of what I am saying...

My other point is that we as Americans have been brainwashed that we NEED to have a lot of stuff and work hard to get 'ahead'... to have a Lexus, a big home, a 5 star vacation, etc etc... and I just see people working for the American dream, but really missing what the true dream is... having a good spouse, lovely children, a healthy body and a long life...

PS.. adding later... BTW.. having a house that is smaller than mine that costs 5 to 10 times more is not something to brag about... and in the end, what does it matter UNLESS you plan on moving when you retire (which most people do not )... you will just have an expensive house and no or little other assets to live on

Edited October 12, 2006 by Texas Proud

[PurrSuede 0]

I wasn't really trying to complain. Sorry if it came out that way. I was simply trying to bring up a counter example of a place in America, a rather big and populace place where the breadwinner lifestyle, may be feasible but not practical.

And back to Texasproud who is a big advocate of the breadwinner lifestyle, I voiced my opinion how disappointed I would be in my wife if she was only a homemaker. I think of her as smart and brilliant, and we can always hire someone to clean the home if she is very successful in her career.

Just a different view of life. I guess I read too many feminism books and was not pleased with the 1950's breadwinner lifestyles. And if what you are describing modernly is somehow different, then clue me in.

What is different as I understand according to the articles I posted is that government programs and assistance has all gone down and the price of living has gone up. Making the breadwinner lifestyle in general difficult if you are someone one like me who does enjoy two cars, a nice vacation, a nice home in nice location, etc.

Ok, I can accept that you didn't want your wife to be a "homemaker". But taking care of a house and raising children IS a huge responsibility and also very fulfilling to some women. (Waiting for the AW lurkers to jump on me, but some women WISH they could do this...)

I think the 1950's ARE long gone. But modern lifestyles do not dictate mandatory two-breadwinner lifestyles, either. As I said, I know of lots of "soccer moms" who work maybe part time, and participate in their children's growing-up and take care of the house...

And I'm not in California, but I do own two cars, I can take a nice vacation, I have a nice home in a nice location... and a single income. And my Russian ex-wife did not NEED to work, but chose to work. Which I had no problem with her working, but, as you know, there were other issues... I won't go into them here...

And yes, she spent her income on clothes, fashions, cosmetics, and she felt like it was good because she didn't need MY money (or to ask me for my money) to spend on these things... but she couldn't seem to understand that having bought a nice house in a nice location, our financial situation was tight and that meant it was tight for other things. Not that she was deprived in any way....

I'm not saying it's easy to do on ONE income, but it can be done....

But also we do have many parts in the US where you can do this on one income, and sometimes we have to look at the "cost of living" of where we might like to live... and we do have a mobility in our society where we can (for the right opportunity) move elsewhere and establish a different job and home situation and economic lifestyle...

My point was, if you're in California, you're kind of stuck by the California "cost of living" and lifestyle, but there ARE other alternatives to that... so it is a choice, even if not an easy one to necessarily change, at least we do have the "mobility" in America to change this if we so desire...

-- Dan

[Satellite 1]

Having a house that is smaller than mine that costs 5 to 10 times more is not something to brag about... and in the end, what does it matter UNLESS you plan on moving when you retire (which most people do not )... you will just have an expensive house and no or little other assets to live on

I disagree with you here. What has recently become very popular here, is doing a reverse mortgage in your retirement years if you haven't any other pension options such as defined benefit plan or the now more common defined contribution plan. A reverse mortgage will be a form of annuity where upon your death the life insurance company or the mortgage company forecloses on your home. I find this option more as a last resort, but if the idea is to not move upon retirement and receive a steady income, this plan makes sense.

Granted their won't be much of an inheritance to pass on, but with the modern high life expectancy, I myself am not expecting anything for another 30-50 years anyway.

Peace on all the subjects we discussed in our posts. I find them agreeable.

Edited October 12, 2006 by Satellite

[Texas Proud 0]

Having a house that is smaller than mine that costs 5 to 10 times more is not something to brag about... and in the end, what does it matter UNLESS you plan on moving when you retire (which most people do not )... you will just have an expensive house and no or little other assets to live on

I disagree with you here. What has recently become very popular here, is doing a reverse mortgage in your retirement years if you haven't any other pension options such as defined benefit plan or the now more common defined contribution plan. A reverse mortgage will be a form of annuity where upon your death the life insurance company or the mortgage company forecloses on your home. I find this option more as a last resort, but if the idea is to not move upon retirement and receive a steady income, this plan makes sense.

Granted their won't be much of an inheritance to pass on, but with the modern high life expectancy, I myself am not expecting anything for another 30-50 years anyway.

Peace on all the subjects we discussed in our posts. I find them agreeable.

Yes, that is an option for someone who is 'house rich' and everything else poor... I would suggest that you get a reverse mortgage that adjusts for inflatioin AND that they must pay until you die (and spouse if you have one...).. If you live a long time... you win big time... the house is 'sold' for more than you could sell it for

Agree on the posts.. good discussions... but the AW seems to have left as they were getting beat up a bit (deserved in IMO)...

[slim 1,514]

Agree on the posts.. good discussions... but the AW seems to have left as they were getting beat up a bit (deserved in IMO)...

So now I abuse women too? (Gosh, pretty soon I'll be back to "helping" the terrorists.)

One option that I've discussed at length with my fiancee about is living here in the U.S. for a few years (where we're all relatively "house rich", even if you rent) then moving to Russia with her and doing something like what would equate to living off the sale of our house. (Or, working on American wages for several years, saving what we could, then living on Russian prices.) Anyone else considered doing this? I know Siberia isn't exactly a prime retirement spot, but even a mediocre pension here would be WAY more than enough to live very nicely in small-town Russia. (And really not-too-shabby in a big city like Moscow.)

[CarolineM 0]

I didn't feel beat up on...I just got bored.

[mercy 1]

I didn't feel beat up on...I just got bored.

[PurrSuede 0]

I didn't feel beat up on...I just got bored.

so now you're back for more amusement?

Glad to know that we're a source of amusement for you... sorry you couldn't find more amusing things to titillate you in other parts of this website...

Welcome back, have some popcorn and start monitoring...

-- Dan

[CarolineM 0]

i never mentioned the word amusement...

[PurrSuede 0]

i never mentioned the word amusement...

No you didn't, however, I did...

thanks for noticing.. hope you found it amusing....

-- Dan

[slim 1,514]

Welcome back A/W!!!

Have you ever thought about retiring in Russia so your dollar could go a little further?

And, by the way, if you're looking for men to "amuse" you, you'd have way more than enough "amusement" in Russia dealing with those guys. If you like us... you'll LOVE the Russian men!

[Marc and Olga 0]

Welcome back A/W!!!

Have you ever thought about retiring in Russia so your dollar could go a little further?

And, by the way, if you're looking for men to "amuse" you, you'd have way more than enough "amusement" in Russia dealing with those guys. If you like us... you'll LOVE the Russian men!

BTW, Slim, I thought retiring in Russia would be good, my 401(k) isn't near what it should be for my age so here in the US, I'd probably have some problems retiring at a reasonable age (55-60).

Edit:fixed typo

Edited October 18, 2006 by Marc and Olga

[CarolineM 0]

I haven't ever considered retiring in Russia...actually I've never even considered going there. Maybe I should? I love to travel, but I have a list a mile long of places I want to go to first...

I'm sure it's really nice...and I know it's beautiful...maybe one day when I have time and money

[Marc and Olga 0]

I haven't ever considered retiring in Russia...actually I've never even considered going there. Maybe I should? I love to travel, but I have a list a mile long of places I want to go to first...

I'm sure it's really nice...and I know it's beautiful...maybe one day when I have time and money

It IS nice, it IS beautiful, the people are wonderful and friendly (something you don't see much here in the good ol' USA) and it is far less expensive to live there...they do earn far less then we do though.

Just my experience though.