Ukraine Name Change.. Oh my .......

[Noel194 53]

My wife tells me the law is written in Ukrainian on the embassy and immigration website she is sending it to me I will paste in Ukrainian language. This is for the benefit of the original post. You know it is sad that a few people want to give bad advice to the rest of us. If you are so confident that it is OK to have both passports, no PMZh stamp and live in the USA then why don't you send all your personal information to the Ukraine Govt and see what they say. I doubt they will come to America and knock on your trailer door but hey maybe they will and there will be a little excitement in the trailer park at least for one night.

[slim 1,519]

I doubt they will come to America and knock on your trailer door but hey maybe they will and there will be a little excitement in the trailer park at least for one night.

If any govt. agency - Ukranian or otherwise - came knocking on trailer park doors at night, there'd be some excitement!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My wife tells me the law is written in Ukrainian on the embassy and immigration website she is sending it to me I will paste in Ukrainian language. This is for the benefit of the original post. You know it is sad that a few people want to give bad advice to the rest of us. If you are so confident that it is OK to have both passports, no PMZh stamp and live in the USA then why don't you send all your personal information to the Ukraine Govt and see what they say. I doubt they will come to America and knock on your trailer door but hey maybe they will and there will be a little excitement in the trailer park at least for one night.

Why don't you post it? We can read Ukrainian.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I can see where there might be a problem having two travel passports from two different countries, but not a GC from one and a passport from another. I know a USC with a permanent residency in Ukraine who keeps and travels on an American passport, and lots of Eastern Europeans who have a GC and keep their citizenship and necessarily their passport from their home country.

In fact, in the US, there are specific provisions under the Immigration and Nationality Act that cover this for USCs. Citizenship. Here is an excerpt from the US Dept. of State website regarding residency in a foreign country and the effect on US citizenship.

Dual nationality can occur as the result of a variety of circumstances. The automatic acquisition or retention of a foreign nationality, acquired, for example, by birth in a foreign country or through an alien parent, does not affect U.S. citizenship. It is prudent, however, to check with authorities of the other country to see if dual nationality is permissible under local law. Dual nationality can also occur when a person is naturalized in a foreign state without intending to relinquish U.S. nationality and is thereafter found not to have lost U.S. citizenship: the individual consequently may possess dual nationality. While recognizing the existence of dual nationality and permitting Americans to have other nationalities, the U.S. Government also recognizes the problems which it may cause. Claims of other countries upon dual-national U.S. citizens often place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper efforts to provide U.S. diplomatic and consular protection to them when they are abroad.

It appears that for us - the intent to relinquish our citizenship is key. The passage above also clears up some of the discussion on vj about the US not recognizing a USC as a dual citizen. We do. Here is more information about our policy towards dual nationality

Here are the Ukrainian equivalent provisions from the UA Embassy.

Loss of the citizenship of Ukraine

Citizenship of Ukraine shall be lost:

1) if a citizen of Ukraine voluntarily acquired citizenship of another state;

2)if a person is enrolled for military service, security service, law enforcement authorities, judicial bodies or other bodies of state power of foreign state without the consent of the public authorities of Ukraine, and if respective public authorities of Ukraine have made a request thereto;

3)if citizenship of Ukraine has been acquired as a result of submitting information or documents known to be false;

4)if a person residing/sojourning beyond the borders of Ukraine has not, without good reasons, undergone consular registration over seven years. Good reasons shall be the following: absence of diplomatic missions and post of Ukraine in the country of domicile, lengthy illness, hostilities and other emergencies.

For a citizen of Ukraine an affiliation to foreign citizenship shall not be recognized until the decision on his/her loss of citizenship of Ukraine is adopted.

Cite UA Embassy

I interpret this to mean that either a Ukrainian citizen has to renounce citizenship to lose it, or some petition has to be made to the government to lose it. It says nothing about residency - so apparently a GC is OK, as in the US.

All of this fails to address the issue of having different names on differentuments. We work through it by carrying a copy of our marraige certificate when we travel (for the OP).

Edited November 21, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[Brad and Vika 129]

Whoops! I left out the most important part;

A citizen of Ukraine's residence or temporary sojourn abroad shall not terminate his/her citizenship.

Consulate General of UA

You can see that Vika and I have looked into this.

[Brad and Vika 129]

#######! I reread the above and see that I also did not make the point that the dual natioality discussion does not mention residency as a problem. In other words it won't effect your USC status to reside elswhere (even permanently).

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

#######! I reread the above and see that I also did not make the point that the dual natioality discussion does not mention residency as a problem. In other words it won't effect your USC status to reside elswhere (even permanently).

All of your information is correct. Our son has registered with Ukraine as a US pemanent resident, he has shown that he has registered for the draft here. He has received an indefinite deferral to any oblgation to serve in the Ukrainian military AND he retains his Ukrainian internal passport. No problems whatsoever. They have stamped his international and internal Ukrainian passports to reflect his residence in the US. He did this in August of this year. This meets the provisions of your item 2 above. I prepared the papers for him which included a copy of his green card, US Selective Service registration and Vermont drivers license. He changed his student deferrment to an indefinite deferrment. Ukraine actully allows that if a Ukraine citizen becomes a permanent resident of another country AND meets the military requirements of THAT country, they will be excused from compulsary military service in Ukraine. Pasha will get his internal passport this year and we WILL tell them he is living in the US. Pasha will be a US citizen before he needs to serve in the Ukrainian military. We have not changed the internal passport for Alla but only for property tax purposes and now we will this summer because we have deflected the tax issue another way.

Noel is incorrect at best, full of BS at worst. I was hoping he would post the facts and realize his error but I see that is not forthcoming. I am not guessing. Ukrainina citizens CAN have a green card AND a Ukrainian internal and international passport.

Yes, you (USC) can reside in a foreign country with no affect on US citizenship and Ukrainians can keep their Ukrainian citizenship absent a declaration from the Ukrainian President. The current President has not declared they cannot have dual citizenship.

It is common practice for women that have changed their names to carry a copy of their marriage certificate with them when traveling outside the US, I have never heard of any problems with that.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[LvivLovers 39]

So it seems fairly clear that once a Ukrainian citizen becomes a U.S. citizen, they automatically lose Ukrainian citizenship. I wish that wasn't the case...my wife would like to be a dual citizen. Anyone know a way around that where she could keep both? Also, if she owns an apartment, does anyone know how that will be affected? Is there going to be some ridiculous tax by Ukraine once she becomes a USC or when she tried to sell it?

[Brad and Vika 129]

So it seems fairly clear that once a Ukrainian citizen becomes a U.S. citizen, they automatically lose Ukrainian citizenship. I wish that wasn't the case...my wife would like to be a dual citizen. Anyone know a way around that where she could keep both? Also, if she owns an apartment, does anyone know how that will be affected? Is there going to be some ridiculous tax by Ukraine once she becomes a USC or when she tried to sell it?

Yes, there is a HUGE tax on property owned by foreign nationals. It appears to us that the only solution is to place the property into the name of a relative. If there is a sale, you have to trust the owner to send the money to America. Apparently there are lots of stories about people doing this and the the family member somehow fails to transfer the cash. Vika says parents are best.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So it seems fairly clear that once a Ukrainian citizen becomes a U.S. citizen, they automatically lose Ukrainian citizenship. I wish that wasn't the case...my wife would like to be a dual citizen. Anyone know a way around that where she could keep both? Also, if she owns an apartment, does anyone know how that will be affected? Is there going to be some ridiculous tax by Ukraine once she becomes a USC or when she tried to sell it?

She does not automatically lose anything.

Yes there are huge taxes if you own property and do not reside in Ukraine. That was a concern for us as we still own a flat in Donetsk. Alla added her mother to the deed and title this year when she visited. Problem solved.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes, there is a HUGE tax on property owned by foreign nationals. It appears to us that the only solution is to place the property into the name of a relative. If there is a sale, you have to trust the owner to send the money to America. Apparently there are lots of stories about people doing this and the the family member somehow fails to transfer the cash. Vika says parents are best.

And they do not have to become US citizens. This was one of the reasons we did not change names and did not change Alla's registered address, NOT because of some phantom non-existant laws in Ukraine. We added her mom as an owner of the property.

[LvivLovers 39]

Hmm. Ok. Here's our situation...my wife and her mother own their apartment. We plan for her mother to come to the USA in a year or so, once my wife gets her USC and is able to apply for her mother's visa. What's the best way to avoid problems/fees? Put it all in her mother's name before she becomes a USC? Or does that not matter so long as there is at least one Ukrainian owner?

In a related topic, anyone have a good way they trust to get the money out of Ukraine? I think banks over there are only insured up to like $3,000 or something scary like that if I recall. And even beyond that, I'm not sure I'd trust them...my wife knows people that have been screwed over by major banks...even after one of these friends took them to court and won, they still haven't paid up...the police don't do anything about it either of course. I can't remember if I already asked about this or not in the past.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Hmm. Ok. Here's our situation...my wife and her mother own their apartment. We plan for her mother to come to the USA in a year or so, once my wife gets her USC and is able to apply for her mother's visa. What's the best way to avoid problems/fees? Put it all in her mother's name before she becomes a USC? Or does that not matter so long as there is at least one Ukrainian owner?

In a related topic, anyone have a good way they trust to get the money out of Ukraine? I think banks over there are only insured up to like $3,000 or something scary like that if I recall. And even beyond that, I'm not sure I'd trust them...my wife knows people that have been screwed over by major banks...even after one of these friends took them to court and won, they still haven't paid up...the police don't do anything about it either of course. I can't remember if I already asked about this or not in the past.

I think you are on target by transferring all of it into mom's name until she becomes a USC (big ups for helping MIL through the process and beyond, by the way). I would not put that much cash into a Ukrainian bank and try to transfer it to the US. Try a foreign bank with Ukrainian branches perhaps. And I would try to get the cash out in increments from there. The key is going to be finding out if the bank will give you sums of cash in dollars to carry back. That would be ideal, but you may wind up with a gazillion withdrawls in Euro or something. Honestly I don't know how to research that - but I would bet there are Polish banks in Lviv that transfer money to Poland cheap all the time.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think you are on target by transferring all of it into mom's name until she becomes a USC (big ups for helping MIL through the process and beyond, by the way). I would not put that much cash into a Ukrainian bank and try to transfer it to the US. Try a foreign bank with Ukrainian branches perhaps. And I would try to get the cash out in increments from there. The key is going to be finding out if the bank will give you sums of cash in dollars to carry back. That would be ideal, but you may wind up with a gazillion withdrawls in Euro or something. Honestly I don't know how to research that - but I would bet there are Polish banks in Lviv that transfer money to Poland cheap all the time.

I am responding to both Brad and LvivLovers.

We had the advice of an attorney in Donetsk on this matter. She advised having the property in the name of at least one person that is a citizen AND resident of Ukraine. It was OK, we are told, that Alla and I are on the deed also as long as at least one of the owners lives there. Our flat is my MIL's "official address" though she has her own one-room across the street, which was alwsys just kind of her "bedroom" anyway. That one-room is hers but it also listed in Alla's name. The issue of her mother coming here to live has never been seriously considered though. We have spoken about her getting a tourist visa (if she could) and come for visits for maybe 90 days or so.

If she came here to live that would be another matter and we would address that. I cannnot answer that for you.

Alla transfered what money she had here by using an ATM to withdraw it. It was not a lot of money and she took it out in $200 increments. Her mother also panicked a couple years ago, opened a bank account, sent Alla a debit card and asked her to withdraw ALL her money and bring it back to her in US dollars. Oh well. Anyway, she did and had no problem. Again, not a lot of money and in $200 increments.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Good idea about the ATM cards. If you have the time and the patience, it seems a risk-free approach