Old citizenship??

[Captain Oates 911]

I don't think you will feel differently after living here longer. Nationality is a strong feeling. Although I love this country I will never feel "American", always Belgian. When someone is raised in his country of birth and leaves that country at a certain adult age, the connection and the feeling with that country of origin never goes away. Giving up loyalty means, in my opinion, that in extreme situations, like war, you show loyalty to the US, not any other country. That is a fair request. I don't think the US government asks you to get rid of your roots.

I spent 2 days short of 60 years in England. My dad fought for Britain from 1939 to 1945 including fighting in the jungles of Burma - all the way from Kohima to Rangoon. His father was killed fighting for Britain at Oppy Wood in France when my dad was 30 months old. My daughter and sister and grand children live in England. There are lots of reasons, but I think these few explain why I should feel some attachments still.

I know that the Italians in the US and many other ethnic groups actively celebrate their heritage and even African Americans have African celebrations after all these years. I meet people who say "I am English too". Turns out they are not but their ancestors were. My brother in law says he is a Prussian but he is talking about his family 110 years ago.

If a George Bush type wants me to shoot English people he can get stuffed. I see the oath as 'do no harm' to the US and 'don't be a criminal' and 'don't work against it' and 'help where you can'. In that spirit I can do all these things but anyone who can kill their ex countrymen and family with no regrets is a turncoat and a psychopath.

The Star Spangled banner is a song about killing Brits and 'washing their their foul footsteps' off the land of the US using their blood. I may mumble a bit when I sing it as that blood may well be that of my family.

I wish National Anthems were more about a positive aspirations for Nations and not full of killing and blood. Militarism is an occasional nasty necessity rather than the reason to be, a National obsession for unwise young men and something to glory in. My family is sick of it and my dad and the British forces threw Churchill out of office at the end of the war because they were sick of it too. They wanted and got a National Health Service which IS an achievement and the real Crown Jewel. A true US patriot would work for the same in the US.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Alan,

why I get how you "feel" about the spirit of the oath, I don't think the US Government shares your views about it. If it comes to WWIII, you are expected to fight against the British, and I'm expected to fight against Germans. Period. Refusing to do so is treason, punishable by death.

We push such thoughts far away from us, pretending that can never happen again. Yet, it happened just a few decades ago. It happened, because people were lured into falling for propaganda, fueled by a deep recession and a sentiment against people -- in this case the Jews -- who were to blame for this.

The US war machine and the -- literally -- trillions of Dollars at stake for the corporations who runs this country, will make sure that the moment we got to slow down in Afghanistan, we are ready to attack Iran. I'm sure they'll make a nice story up why it is necessary, dressed up with the often cited mushroom cloud.

On a related note, I personally believe Obama is somewhat of a Trojan horse, endorsed as the democratic candidate by Goldman-Sachs when they realized that in 2008 it would be a Democrat anyway after Bush Jr. messed up in too big a way. Goldman-Sachs were the biggest single contributors to Obama's presidential campaign, and they also sent their people into the White House to "advise" the President. Result: bailout of Wall Street (and I'm an investor as well), the Auto Industry, and an escalation of the wars.

I believe Obama's a muppet who cannot do much, because if he tried, he'd end up like J.F. Kennedy. When it comes to trillions of dollars at stake, even a handful of the most skilled and most expensive assassins are dirt cheap.

Anyway, once we have a republican President again, we can step on the gas a bit more. Eventually, nobody knows when, but it's just a matter of time, we will have made so many enemies in the World that all it takes is a spark, like another "terrorist attack" to get the war going. Combined with a depression, anti-immigrant sentiment, Christian right wingers, tea party patriots who want to enact on their 2nd. Amendment Rights, it's very possible that the stars line up beautifully for the perfect storm. When that day comes, we all will have to wonder what to do.

[Captain Oates 911]

Bob I have a plan to avoid being shot for treason after a damn good water boarding... 183 times in a month ?

If your Sarah wants to start a war with the UK, I will fly to London before she starts, go in the US Embassy in Grosvenor Square and renounce the Naturalization.

10 minutes should do it and I will be accepted by the US as an alien once more and not subject to being drafted.

Then I will be just a Brit again. I am a marksman and we should win this time.

It's a hot plan. It's as hot as my pants - and that's saying something

ps refusing the draft is not treason punishable by death - who told you that - Rush ?

Edited November 10, 2010 by Alan the Red

[warlord 73]

ps refusing the draft is not treason punishable by death - who told you that - Rush ?

Now that was good...