non-biological father signing the birth certificate in Ukraine?

[cwaf 1]

hello everyone...it has been forever since I was here. I successfully brought my fiance over from Ukraine, along with her daughter, in october 2008 and we married in November 2008. We are living quite happily togther. However, that is not the topic of this thread. Ny wife's neice in Ukraine put her profile online during our last visit to Ukraine in may 2010. She met and began correspondence with a man (whom I do not trust)and he just returned home from Ukraine today. (actually still in the air). They became engaged while he was there. Now, the situation. The niece is 21 and never married. She left her "man" of 5 years early this year and moved back home. That man is the biological father of her unborn child. She is due any day now with a baby boy. yesterday, before my neice's fiance` left, they went to the hospital and he signed the birth certificate of the yet unborn baby as the father. He is not the biological father and I firmly believe it is illegal to sign the birth certificate as such and this could cause them great issues during the visa application time. I know his intent was to show his dedication to the baby and his fiance`, but I think he should have waited until the child was in the USA and then adopt the boy. Will this maneuever they performed cause my niece any trouble? My wife argued that he did not sign saying he was the biological father, only "the father". I told her that is one and the same on the legal documents like that as there are not two lines, one for biolgical and one for desired-fathers. I am going to suggest that they remake the birth certificate without his name since the baby has not yet been born.

am I being paranoid? I care about her--not the fiance`--and do not want her to be branded as being a fraud, inadvertently faking that her son was fathered by an American citizen.

thanks everyone!

Chris

Edited October 29, 2010 by cwaf

[Rob and Jill 82]

What are the laws in the Ukraine regarding this?

The laws in the U.S. are very clear on it. If you sign the birth certificate whether you are the bio dad or not...You're the Dad.

My concern is this. If she has fraudlently done this, perhaps the bio dad WANTS to be involved. If she leaves the country without his permission, with his child, and has lied on the birth certificate...she could be in A LOT of trouble. It all depends on the laws of the Ukraine.

[cwaf 1]

What are the laws in the Ukraine regarding this?

The laws in the U.S. are very clear on it. If you sign the birth certificate whether you are the bio dad or not...You're the Dad.

My concern is this. If she has fraudlently done this, perhaps the bio dad WANTS to be involved. If she leaves the country without his permission, with his child, and has lied on the birth certificate...she could be in A LOT of trouble. It all depends on the laws of the Ukraine.

Hi Rob and Jill....Well, from what I read today online, in the USA it is illegal to sign a birth certificate as the father if you are not the biological father. I know the actual father has no plans on being part of the child's life. After posting this message, I emailed a friend of mine from ukraine who is a naturalized citizen here, and also went back to ukraine to marry a woman and have a child after becoming the citizen. I will paste excerpts from his email response to me.

"When one of the parents is American Citizen, the child is eligible to be American citizen even if the child is born outside of US. But it does not make him/her American citizen automatically. The paperwork must be completed. It called "CRBA (Consular Report of Birth Abroad") and it must be presented to the American consular in the country of birth (in Ukraine) with proper documentation which include but not limited to birth certificate that shows that one of the parents is American and, most importantly, they must prove that parents were together at the time of conceive. It could be dated pictures together , airfare tickets, stamps in the passport that shows the date of entry to Ukraine and date of departure from Ukraine. If he can not present these evidences, they can and more likely they will send him for a paternal test.

What he did, he committed a fraud. They might get a big problem because of that. It includes banning her forever from entering USA.

nd I completely agree with you. They had to wait for a child birth and than he would do exactly what you did - Fiance Visa K1 and Child of Fiance-K2. Or they could get married in Ukraine and than after he comes back to USA he would file Spouse Visa K3 and Child of Spouse Visa K4.

In any case (K2 or K4 Visas), she would need to state during the child registration that she has no clue who the baby's father is. Otherwise, they need to get biological father's written approval for a child to leave the country.

Also, I am not sure how he did sign the papers that he is a father if the child was not born yet. They can not register unborn child. The law in Ukraine states, that if parents are not married, in order for father to register him as a father he must be present during the child registration process. Notarized documents or power of attorney are not accepted. That is why I had to go to Ukraine RIGHT AFTER the child birth. My daughter was born on 4 and I arrived to Ukraine on 13."

I think I have my answer, but am open to other input who may have gone through a similar experience.

thanks!

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

In the immigration process it will cause confusion & delays.

If they attempt to get the child US Citizenship as a result then he will have to prove he was present when the child was conceived or submit to DNA testing.

If USCIS sees a US Citizen named as the father on the BC they will want to ensure the child has no claim to US Citizenship via that relationship before they can proceed with a Visa application.

Another VJ member just went through this in the Philippines.

[cwaf 1]

In the immigration process it will cause confusion & delays.

If they attempt to get the child US Citizenship as a result then he will have to prove he was present when the child was conceived or submit to DNA testing.

If USCIS sees a US Citizen named as the father on the BC they will want to ensure the child has no claim to US Citizenship via that relationship before they can proceed with a Visa application.

Another VJ member just went through this in the Philippines.

Thanks for your input. It further reinforces that she should do new paperwork and not let his name appear anywhere!

[visaveteran 1]

hello everyone...it has been forever since I was here. I successfully brought my fiance over from Ukraine, along with her daughter, in october 2008 and we married in November 2008. We are living quite happily togther. However, that is not the topic of this thread. Ny wife's neice in Ukraine put her profile online during our last visit to Ukraine in may 2010. She met and began correspondence with a man (whom I do not trust)and he just returned home from Ukraine today. (actually still in the air). They became engaged while he was there. Now, the situation. The niece is 21 and never married. She left her "man" of 5 years early this year and moved back home. That man is the biological father of her unborn child. She is due any day now with a baby boy. yesterday, before my neice's fiance` left, they went to the hospital and he signed the birth certificate of the yet unborn baby as the father. He is not the biological father and I firmly believe it is illegal to sign the birth certificate as such and this could cause them great issues during the visa application time. I know his intent was to show his dedication to the baby and his fiance`, but I think he should have waited until the child was in the USA and then adopt the boy. Will this maneuever they performed cause my niece any trouble? My wife argued that he did not sign saying he was the biological father, only "the father". I told her that is one and the same on the legal documents like that as there are not two lines, one for biolgical and one for desired-fathers. I am going to suggest that they remake the birth certificate without his name since the baby has not yet been born.

am I being paranoid? I care about her--not the fiance`--and do not want her to be branded as being a fraud, inadvertently faking that her son was fathered by an American citizen.

thanks everyone!

Chris

How can there be a birth certificate before the baby is born?

[cwaf 1]

How can there be a birth certificate before the baby is born?

that was one of my questions, too! It is like they prepared it in advance or something, which I thought was illegal.

[1HappyGuy 45]

If you care for your niece then get her to fix the documents correctly. You know that the USCIS and the state department don't seem like the brightest people around at times, but they can manage to figure out all kinds of things that are fishy. For instance, was the fiance actually present in Ukraine at a time when conception could have occurred. This has so many things wrong with it that you need to warn your niece and get her to do things right.

Also, ask yourself what kind of a guy is going to sign a document that he knows is fraudulent? This has bad news written all over it. Tell her to do it right. :bonk:

[cwaf 1]

ok..I have an update. After getting off work, my wife and I talked about this. i was mistaken with the document that he prepared/signed to be the father. It was NOT a birth certificate--which makes sense because the baby has yet to be born. However, they had gone to an attorney's office to prepare a document that states he wants to have his name on the birth certificate--sort of like adopting the baby before it is even born. According to my friend, he would have to be present at the hospital to sign the birth certificate/registration and that power-of-attorney is not accepted under Ukrainian law. I believe the attorney just wanted to pocket 100.00 from them! However, I am going to advise the fiance to contact an immigration attorney here as soon as possible and get the legal advice I am not authorized to supply. Regardless if it is legal or not, I feel it is a bad idea and will only slow down their approval and raise all kinds of red flags. I appreciate all feedback and will now compose a letter to the fiance for him to make the decision.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

hello everyone...it has been forever since I was here. I successfully brought my fiance over from Ukraine, along with her daughter, in october 2008 and we married in November 2008. We are living quite happily togther. However, that is not the topic of this thread. Ny wife's neice in Ukraine put her profile online during our last visit to Ukraine in may 2010. She met and began correspondence with a man (whom I do not trust)and he just returned home from Ukraine today. (actually still in the air). They became engaged while he was there. Now, the situation. The niece is 21 and never married. She left her "man" of 5 years early this year and moved back home. That man is the biological father of her unborn child. She is due any day now with a baby boy. yesterday, before my neice's fiance` left, they went to the hospital and he signed the birth certificate of the yet unborn baby as the father. He is not the biological father and I firmly believe it is illegal to sign the birth certificate as such and this could cause them great issues during the visa application time. I know his intent was to show his dedication to the baby and his fiance`, but I think he should have waited until the child was in the USA and then adopt the boy. Will this maneuever they performed cause my niece any trouble? My wife argued that he did not sign saying he was the biological father, only "the father". I told her that is one and the same on the legal documents like that as there are not two lines, one for biolgical and one for desired-fathers. I am going to suggest that they remake the birth certificate without his name since the baby has not yet been born.

am I being paranoid? I care about her--not the fiance`--and do not want her to be branded as being a fraud, inadvertently faking that her son was fathered by an American citizen.

thanks everyone!

Chris

If possible, explain this to the hospital and do not list any father at all. It is not necessary in Ukraine to list a father. You can, actually, list "none". why she felt compelled to do this is beyond understanding but hey, people do things like this sometimes.

Barring that just get the listed "natural father" to sign the letter allowing the child to relocate to the USA permanently and FROM NOW ON, stop doing stupid things! If it is not true, do not do it! This kind of thing can most definitely bite you on the @ss later!

ok..I have an update. After getting off work, my wife and I talked about this. i was mistaken with the document that he prepared/signed to be the father. It was NOT a birth certificate--which makes sense because the baby has yet to be born. However, they had gone to an attorney's office to prepare a document that states he wants to have his name on the birth certificate--sort of like adopting the baby before it is even born. According to my friend, he would have to be present at the hospital to sign the birth certificate/registration and that power-of-attorney is not accepted under Ukrainian law. I believe the attorney just wanted to pocket 100.00 from them! However, I am going to advise the fiance to contact an immigration attorney here as soon as possible and get the legal advice I am not authorized to supply. Regardless if it is legal or not, I feel it is a bad idea and will only slow down their approval and raise all kinds of red flags. I appreciate all feedback and will now compose a letter to the fiance for him to make the decision.

From what you satte here she does not need an attorney, just do not list a fathers name on the BC. Simple. she can get a certificate of "no father" from ZAGS. Alla has just such a thing for herself as Alla had "no father".