Reasons to Hate Vietnam

[Teacher Mark 53]

This guy really tees off. The bottom line is he can always go back to where he came from. That's what I tell myself about 50 times a day.

Oh Vietnam, how I hate you… Let me count the ways…

I Hate Vietnam's Lies

I'm tired of being lied to. It's as if the population has a compulsive lying habit.

I was lied to when I instructed a shuttle bus driver from the airport to transport us to a specific hotel (where a man jumps out of a building claiming this is the address I asked for, insisting that he's full, but will take us to another one around the corner). I was lied to when picking up a spare backpack left at a Hanoi hotel, with the staff trying to extort US$30 from me for a few days of keeping it chained to a desk in the corner of their lobby—we walked off without paying.

Pop-out Christmas card

I'm constantly being lied to for stupid, simple, insignificant stuff as well. Like when I was purchasing some rather interesting cutout/popup greeting cards from a tiny store outside the tourist bubble. Tatiana asked how they were made, and the woman motioned that she made them herself with a scalpel. This was a total fabrication—I could see the bloody burn marks left from a laser that created the obviously mass-produced cards. I suppose she put that barcode sticker on the back of the card as well, huh?

Liars. So many damn liars.

I Hate Vietnam's Dual Pricing

Although common in many countries, alternate pricing for foreigners is visible and in your face in Vietnam. The same boat ride that a tourist pays 100,000 dong for, finds your Vietnamese citizen neighbor paying 80,000d. I might haggle for a piece of fruit, but my ending price is still twice that of the local buying it next to me, because the vendor inflated the initial price 400%.

Most foreigners are seen as targets of opportunity. According to Nguyen Huu Viet, an official from the Tourism Department of Hanoi, overcharging foreign tourists is not necessarily a kind of fraud, but part of the "culture".

An excerpt from an article entitled 'The price isn't quite right':

"American and Russian tourists are very generous but the most generous customers are from Japan, they hardly bargain at all," says Thu Huong, who works in a small souvenir shop in the Old Quarter. "Even with a price 10-times the going rate, a Japanese customer might consider it cheap. But Italian or German tourists would just take a look and smile."

The more naive of these tourists are called "ga beo" (fatty chicken), a slang term for those that jump at the price of $100 for a fake $10-Rolex watch from China or $40 for a $5-dollar-string of artificial pearls.

"To be honest I don't really care about the souvenir shops or fruit sellers trying to get a bit more cash out of a foreigner, haggling for goods is part of the game," says Daniel Lewenstein, an American lawyer living in Vietnam on and off for 10 years. "But it's really annoying when there's a set price and people try to chance their arm anyway, like the last time I arrived at Noi Bai airport the taxi driver tried to charge me VND280,000 for a trip to town even though it said VND150,000 on the sign!"

I Hate Vietnam's Noise

It seems like this country has developed or enhanced every known way to pollute the environment with noise. The decibel level reaches a point on the street where I need to put ear plugs in because my ears are "eeeeeeeeeeeeing" by the time I get back inside the hotel.

Hundreds of thousands of muffler-less vehicles belch sound as they zoom through the streets. Horns are repeatedly honked by every motorist, on average, every five to seven seconds. They honk when passing someone; they honk when turning; they honk when pissed; they honk when happy; they honk when people aren't moving fast enough; they honk whey they're driving the wrong direction, against traffic on a one-way street; they honk to show off their custom horn; and they honk because everyone else is honking next to them. I watch and listen as some just keep the horn depressed as they drive along the avenues. In Hanoi, not a moment passes in the day when you don't hear the sound of a horn—inside your hotel room, or not.

Socialist megaphones are installed in Hanoi that, several times daily, force tourists and residents alike to plug their ears to keep them from bleeding. The volume that emits from these hour-long news, weather, music, and advertisement announcements is actually so loud that it drowns out the honking. It's that loud.

Having a street-facing hotel room in Vietnam is one of the last things you really want in the country, especially when you have one of these microphone attached to the building, jarring you awake at 7:00 in the morning with the amplified sound of their ugly language.

Between the vehicles, the constant construction, the language, and the karaoke bars, I find myself envying the deaf.

I Hate Vietnam's Language

I can best describe the Vietnamese language as the undulating growl emitted by a cat that's been disturbed while it chews on a mouth full of dry cat food. meruughh-meowruugh-rruughh

I could also describe most men sounding like a recording of mentally handicapped person with a mouth full of Novocain, making an impression of a goose, played in reverse.

A linguistic sample, recorded off the radio.

I Hate Vietnam's Traffic and Pedestrian Woes

There are over 1.5 million motorcycles in Hanoi owned by city dwellers, plus over 400,000 motorcycles from outside the city—increasing at a rate of 14% each year. That's a f**king lot of motorcycles, as evident by the hazardous conditions for pedestrians.

Every sidewalk is packed to the brim with vendors and households doubling their street-level floor as a business. This means that pedestrians are forced to walk in the street. The feeling of wind that rushes past you as you're nearly clipped by a speeding motorbike or auto is at all times constant.

There are few crosswalks in a city that actually really needs them. Even when present, it only mitigates the risk of getting struck on the street by a vehicle slightly, as you'll never get a green walk signal without vehicles turning right onto an adjoining street, or left from a green left-turn light.

The process of crossing a street saturated with traffic and no traffic control is simply to take the "Indiana Jones jump from the Lion's Head Leap of Faith" approach. Think of the traffic like a raging river, and you as a slowly moving stone—the traffic will part, so long as you don't stop or run.

This process scares the living daylights of Tatiana, who fears for the safety of the child in her belly every time she ventures outside the hotel. Going anywhere is a major ordeal, as the thought of being struck by an errant motorbike and the subsequent consequences on our unborn son would be devastating. I always hold her hand and stand between her and the direction of the oncoming traffic—the padded human shield technique. I can't blame her, but she still has the habit of wanting to stop when it looks like she's about to get hit, which is the wrong thing to do. That's going to get us all killed. Do not stop. Do not run. Those are the rules. You must let go of your fear like you're about to jump out of an airplane, and trust that all will be well.

I filmed a quick video of what the streets look like all day long, and what you've just got to cautiously walk into, here:

I Hate Vietnam's Visa Price

I hate how much it costs to enter this country, and how much of a pain in the #### it is to do it economically.

I Hate Vietnam's Skinny Buildings

Climbing countless flights of stairs because the Vietnamese like to build their hotels at the width of a single room pisses me off. I've had to pass on quality rooms because they're on the eighth floor and a near seven-month pregnant Tatiana can't walk past the third floor without getting winded.

I Hate the way the Vietnamese Obstruct Storefronts

The cultural habit of parking motorbikes in such a way that every square centimeter of space in front of a store or restaurant I want to enter drives me nuts. The lack of thinking and courtesy towards others that is embodied on the roads manifests itself in parking protocol: Push and shove your way into any available open space and claim success.

I realize there's no space for anyone or anything in this unholy place of traffic misery, but not everyone is a 43-kilo twig-shaped-ninja that can maneuver through these things—just look to Tatiana's massive belly to understand how it prohibits her movement here.

I Hate Vietnam's Mutant Lobsters

I knew better than to believe I'd actually get something resembling lobster for US$3, but we were in the middle of the Gulf of Tokin, and seafood was the most prevalent item on the menu. Just maybe I'll come out Aces, I thought.

What was tossed on my plate was one of the most visually revolting animals I've ever seen. These sweet and sour covered mutants of the sea looked like the evil offspring of a prawn and lobster. I didn't dare look as Tatiana extracted what little meat was actually contained within their hideous exoskeletons.

A quick video of my disappointment can be found at

I Hate Vietnam's Chairs, Cockroaches, and Cholera

I know the people are small, but why am I so often forced to eat while sitting on a stool designed for a four-year-old?

Cockroaches on the street. Cockroaches in my transport. Cockroaches found cooked in my food. Just plain foul. It's no wonder this country still has cholera issues:

HANOI (Reuters) - A cholera outbreak in northern Vietnam has affected more than 200 people.

The ruling Communist Party's daily Nhan Dan (People) quoted Health Minister Nguyen Quoc Trieu as saying over 1,600 people have suffered vomiting acute diarrhea, 202 of whom tested positive for cholera bacteria since Oct. 23. The reports did not say whether anyone had died in an epidemic of acute diarrhea in 13 provinces and cities out of 64 in Vietnam, where the last widespread cholera outbreak was in 2004.

I Hate How the Pith Helmet is so Popular

Pith helmets are as prevalent in Vietnam as baseball caps in the United States. Men and boys of all ages wear them regularly, and the sight of it creeps the hell out of me. It feels like I'm behind enemy lines, surrounded by NVA (North Vietnamese Army)—and given my attitude these days, I probably wouldn't mind pickin' a few of the aggressive ones off with a rifle, just to watch the communist relic of a bygone war drop to the ground.

I Hate Vietnam's Taxi Drivers

I'm not an idiot with taxis. My doors are always locked, my guard is always up, and I'm constantly monitoring where we're going—making a little map in my head or ensuring that the driver is generally following a path that I've memorized by looking at the layout of the city ahead of time. When people don't pay attention, they get cheated, robbed, or worse. Taxi drivers are, the world round, the scum of the Earth. Way below that of lawyers.

In Vietnam, it's really to the point where we consistently expect the worst out of every taxi ride. This is a country known for rigged meters (that count faster than they should) and shady drivers. Hell, the people try everything they can to screw you over on the streets, so there's no reason to think they won't do it in a cab.

I recall how one taxi driver took us for an excessive 8 minute/two kilometer ride around a popular lake in the Old Quarter instead of driving directly to our destination. I called him out on it halfway around, and watched him try to claim that the flow of traffic didn't allow for it (when I knew there were several opportunities for him to do so). Others would drive around and pretend to not know where they were going (or they were really just that stupid); while two others absolutely refused to stop the cab when we no longer wanted to deal with idiotic behavior.

When we knew the fair should be about 18,000 dong and the meter, and at our destination it said 25,000d, 48,000d, or 55,000d, we'd refuse to pay the full fair. One three or more occasions Tatiana and I threw a 20,000d note at a driver and walked away. One wouldn't accept it and came chasing after us on foot, only to walk away with it after losing face.

We tried calling both expensive inexpensive cab companies to pick us up versus flagging them down on the street, but it yielded the same mixed results. There's absolutely no consistently to the companies or their drivers. The best policy is to just not put up with their ###### and pay what you think is fair, regardless of what that little (rigged) box says on the dashboard.

I Hate Vietnam's Food Hype

The best Vietnamese food I ever had wasn't in Vietnam. That goes doubly true with Tatiana, as well.

I find the spectrum of options and flavors within those options to be much narrower most places in SE Asia. To put it bluntly, the food is quite bland and uninspiring.

I know the South is "very different" to the North, where the motto is "if in doubt, boil it to within an inch of its life," but I have a hard time believing it gets much better elsewhere in the country.

It's very easy for me to eat three Thai meals every day for a month, but it's something I would cringe at the thought of doing in Vietnam—there's way too much repetition.

I Hate the Cultural Insensitivity of the Vietnamese People

There is a real culture clash happening with travelers and locals in this country. Tatiana expresses to me how much she loathes it when people touch her—a sentiment that I share. She understands that it's a part of their culture to grab arms or elbows on the street to try to get someone do buy something or do an action, but it's a line that she doesn't like to be crossed.

"I understand why they do it, it's a part of their culture, but why can't they understand that it's offensive in mine to do it?"

I personally won't tolerate it from beggars and pith helmet wearing men on the street, regardless. I aggressively clapped my hands a few centimeters away one man's face to illustrate such a point—instead of slapping him, like Tatiana did one night on a separate incident.

Tatiana also hates how shop staff will follow you around so close "that you can feel their breath on your neck."

I Hate the Vietnamese Inability to Communicate, and Intelligently Anticipate or Extrapolate a Need

I already mentioned this in a previous post, but not since Brazil have I encountered such difficultly communicating with people. I'm chiefly blaming it on their inability to comprehend hand gestures—as the Vietnamese don't often speak with their hands—and a general lack of intelligence. Yeah, that's right, Tatiana and I think most of the people are genuinely below average in the mental faculty department. "Many are nice, but they're dumb as rocks", Tatiana would say.

Two examples to illustrate our frustration:

The first is my unsuccessful attempt to find one of the most ancient of devices in a region of the world they should be plentiful in: A mortar and pestle—a tool used to crush, grind, and mix substances. I want to begin grinding Tatiana's prenatal vitamins that she can't stand swallow, instead of watching her cut it up with scissors and letting it dissolve in juice or yogurt. They're so common, even IKEA makes 'em.

Wikipedia says that this device has existed for over three millennia, and in terms of medical use, that "mortars and pestles [have] traditionally used in pharmacies to crush various ingredients prior to preparing a makeshift prescription. The mortar and pestle is the most common icon associated with pharmacies. For pharmaceutical use, the mortar and the head of the pestle are usually made of porcelain, while the handle of the pestle is made of wood."

Honest to God, I lost count with the number of pharmacies and supermarkets explored for this item. I even asked the tourist information center on a visit to the Old Quarter, where I was directed to the location of a nonexistent supermarket she marked on the map handed me.

At all these pharmacies I was making an effective demonstration of what I wanted. I used words like "pill," "tablet," "medicine," and "powder." I made a cup with one hand, fist with the other, and made a grinding motion. I looked up the word "grind" in an English/Vietnamese dictionary and showed it to staff members, who still didn't quite understand.

On the final attempt, one pharmacist listened to my demonstration, thought about it, and then proceeded to point to her armpit with raised eyebrows… (sigh)

The second example is of an attempt to alleviate Tatiana's itchy, pregnant belly. We went from pharmacy to pharmacy, trying to find her a cream/ointment. At one particularly memorable location, she was working hard to communicate her need. She'd written down the name of the topical cream—Caladryl. It's spelled the same everywhere, but just in case, she also used a more generic name, hydrocortisone.

The staff is baffled, so Tatiana makes itching/scratching motions across her large, third-trimester belly. The girl says, "You have baby?", and Tatiana responds affirmatively, thinking she's got it. And in a move of sheer brilliance that can only have come out of Vietnam, the girl hands her a box of… birth control pills.

Final Thoughts on the Country I Love to Hate

I came into Vietnam much like I do with all countries—with an open mind and curious attitude. The opinions I've expressed above are a direct result of the experiences that I've had from the people and living conditions of the country. It's amazing to see such great displeasure aggregated in this fashion, but readers should also know that there were some instances where Vietnam pleased greatly—though few a far between.

I was absolutely dumbstruck when a street vendor I was regularly purchasing food from in Hanoi gave me a fist full of cash after I approached one day. They husband and wife combo said they'd accidentally charged me too much when I was there two days prior, and were returning the excess. Amazed, I promptly used it to purchase more foodstuffs from them.

I was pleased to find better room deals in Hanoi than Bangkok. You've really got to work hard to find them, but when you do, you're liable to be getting WiFi, a mini-fridge, bathroom, hot water, large bed(s), satellite television, and air conditioning for US$7-13/night.

Forgotten pillbox [

]

I still think it's absolutely fascinating to be able to freely walk around the capital city of a country with whom such a fierce war was waged against not that long ago. I'm an American in Hanoi—amazing.

I really dig the little meat barbecue/frying outfits you can sometimes find setup on sidewalks. During the day a corner of sidewalk might be empty, but at night it's bustling with the sounds of cooking food. Tasty stuff.

In good company

And easily one of the best experiences in Vietnam came with meeting up with my friend Aaron's former girlfriend. She's a sweet, intelligent, well-spoken woman (not to mention an established international writer/journalist) that can sometimes be found in her hometown of Hanoi when she's not in the United States or Thailand. Tatiana and I had the pleasure of her company for an evening, where she hosted us for an excessively filling meal. She understands all too well the issues articulated above, and has a way about her that almost makes you forgive and forget—almost.

I can't say as I'd ever recommend a visit to this country to anyone, but for the curious, there's nothing like experiencing it for yourself. I couldn't hope to write down all the stories and countless occasions where we felt like knocking some sense into people. So go ahead; go to Vietnam for two or three weeks, and return home with enough horror stories to choke a small horse.

http://travelogue.tr...o-hate-vietnam/

Edited June 30, 2010 by Mr. Saigon

[Bernie C 24]

At first I though - what an ####! Then I realized that I should pity this person. They see only with their eyes and not with their mind or heart. They obviously do not understand the people or the culture nor do they wish to. They want only what they want and only wish to see or feel what is in their interest.

What one person hates may another cherish! While I could do with a little less noise in Ho Chi Minh City - I find Nha Trang to be incredibly peaceful and serene.

I don't mind the traffic and I dont fear getting run over - I just do as is the norm and walk at a slow steady pace accross the street - never had a problem yet!

I love the food and it is some of the best in the world (and I have been to many countries throughout the world). Just the other day Doan and I made a special dish that we just love. It looked great but was not even close to the taste as compared to when we get it from "The Lantern" in Nha Trang, one of my favorite little restaurants.

I guess I could go on and on about my views as compared to the ones in this "article". However I will not lose sleep over one persons comments, I will say a little prayer for this person tonight in hopes that at some point in their life they may be able to open their heart and mind and try enjoying soemthing rather than procrastinating everything.

I imagine that the author probably does not really like much of anything anywhere!

I LOVE VIETNAM - and I cant wait to go back to see "my family" and enjoy!

[Dai. 7]

I agree with most the things he hates about Vietnam. I lived in Vietnam for more than 2 years with a good Job and going through the whole visa process with my wife while I was there and I was fortunate enough to have my wife there with me but almost all the same things in this blog annoyed me. I made a thread on a similar topic as this one about a year ago expressing the things I hate about living in Vietnam and some of the same people here posting in that thread expressing similar hatred (same as the article) that they have in Vietnam .

Link to that thread: I've been living in Vietnam for little over a year. I am really home sick!

I'm glad I don't have to live in that country anymore and there is no place like home. I am fortunate to have my wife and baby here with me and loving life so much. We still want to go back to Vietnam in the near future because my wife's family is still there. I don't mind staying there on Vacation for 2-3 weeks but If I had a chance to stay there longer, it is most undesirable for me and I would not do it again.

I LOVE AMERICA - and so does my wife also.

[Dai. 7]

Oh yeah and the "Mutant Lobsters"

Those are preying mantis Lobsters, "Tom Tich" is what they are called in the south (I can't remember what the northerners call it), and they are tasty as hell. I wish we have them here in the US cause they taste pretty awesome. One of the foods I miss having in Vietnam. That guy doesn't know how to Order "Tom Hum" the similar lobster that they have in the US. Not the same but very similar.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Dai_Tx

[Teacher Mark 53]

I agree with most the things he hates about Vietnam. I lived in Vietnam for more than 2 years with a good Job and going through the whole visa process with my wife while I was there and I was fortunate enough to have my wife there with me but almost all the same things in this blog annoyed me. I made a thread on a similar topic as this one about a year ago expressing the things I hate about living in Vietnam and some of the same people here posting in that thread expressing similar hatred (same as the article) that they have in Vietnam .

Link to that thread: I've been living in Vietnam for little over a year. I am really home sick!

I'm glad I don't have to live in that country anymore and there is no place like home. I am fortunate to have my wife and baby here with me and loving life so much. We still want to go back to Vietnam in the near future because my wife's family is still there. I don't mind staying there on Vacation for 2-3 weeks but If I had a chance to stay there longer, it is most undesirable for me and I would not do it again.

I LOVE AMERICA - and so does my wife also.

I was thinking about you when I posted this. My posts reflect a newbie in Vietnam. I dislike a lot of the same things these days but have tried to accept them. I generally keep my business here confined to the same group of vendors/businesses, so I know what to expect (most of the time).

The biggest irks I still have are the lies and the reckless motorbike drivers.

[ScottThuy 140]

with so many places in the world to live.. so many places to go... why do people complain about where they are.. why not just find some place where they can be happy.. people have been doing this for 1000's of years...

Many of the things he hates about VN.. I actually love...

There are places so quiet and serene in VN but this guy complains about the noise in an over-populated city... makes no sense... if its too noisy in the city.. head to the countryside.. if there are loud speakers.. go somewhere else... too many people in a city? go where there are less people and dont complain about it..

I love the 'dance' that takes place when two people are negotiating a price for something... that is capitalism at its purest form... supply and demand economics at its basic form... the more you want the item.. the more you are willing to pay.. unless you are so naive that you pay what they ask... as a vendor, I want to make the most money I can on every transaction and stay in business.. a tourist does not affect my business long term so I will try to get the $ now when I can... I have been able to get a better price on things from the same salesperson than Thuy has.. because I know the 'dance' better than she...

I want one of those horns that are installed on buses in VN.. you know the one... wa wa wa wa wa wa....... people will get out of the way if they hear that.. just what a horn is intended for....

Pick any place in the world, and there will be many people that 'hate' it... I love where I livce for so many reasons, there are also some things about where I live that I dont like.. I take the good with the bad... there are many people that decide to move to floriday thinking its a paradise and then decide very fast that they dont like it here....

A good friend of mione went on his vacation ti Tahiti...(they won the trip) .. he hated it.. too quiet...nothing to do... :blink:everyone has individual perceptions and tastes... to each his own...

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I think he's a #######.

You get what you pay for. If you want a western style hotel on a sprawling estate (not 12 feet wide), complete with elevators and all the amenities, then don't go to any place with less than 4 stars. You'll get a great room and great service for the price of a room at a Holiday Inn in the US. What the hell does he expect for $15/night? Every time I go to Hue I stay at the Huong Giang hotel. I get a great suite, with separate bedroom and living room, and two bathrooms, for well under $100/night. Try getting a room like that in Tokyo for less than $1000/night!! When I wake up in the morning, I go down to a beautiful restaurant in the hotel for a delicious buffet (mostly western food) and sit at a table next to a large window overlooking the Perfume River, and it's all included in the cost of the room. At a $15 hotel you probably won't even get breakfast. If you do, it will be cold 'chau' and weak 'ca phe sua'.

Don't like getting ripped off buying souvenirs? Hire a local guide for the day! Better yet, hire a taxi for the day. Agree on the price up front, and tell him you'll throw in a 20% bonus if he helps you shop. Make sure you buy him a great meal at lunch time.

Don't like crappy food? Stop eating from the street carts and hole-in-the-wall restaurants!

Don't like the noise and crowds? Then what the hell are you doing vacationing in Hanoi? There are far more beautiful places in Vietnam to visit that are not nearly as crowded.

Seriously, I've thought numerous times how much less enjoyable my trips to Vietnam would have been if I had been a typical tourist, with no local people to help me out. I would have been more confused about where to go and what to do, and I'm certain I would have been charged a lot more than the local people. Still, it would have been dirt cheap compared to a holiday in the US. Vietnam was exactly what I expected it to be because I spent a little time in advance learning what it would be like. This guy seems to be blaming an entire country for his own stupidity and lack of advance research. This would be like condemning the US as being a collapsing urban blight after spending a two week holiday in Detroit.

[lambchop4life 6]

you're right Jim, What a punk, I hate the country because its communist,I hate what they have done to the people.

Mantis shrimp are awesome, what the hell was his problem?

[Ronnie&Hang 12]

I LOVE VIETNAM - and I cant wait to go back to see "my family" and enjoy!

AMEN to that!!! you'll grow to love your surroundings if you give it time...

[Dau Que 6]

Nobody forces you to live there, short or long term. If for whatever reason you don't like, feel free to leave.

The reason most of you were/are there is because you can't afford to have a "normal" wife here in the States, because of your age/look/financial status/social ranking, so on so forth. The rest of the pack (tourists) want CHEAP vacations. You get what you paid for. When your vacation is over and time for you to leave, do you even care the daily suffering (in your case, your whining, without the cheese of course) the VNese people have to face? I doubt it.

The ladies over there need to get outta the hell hole. Both sides benefit. Simple and straight forward.

You paid so cheaply for everything and you want quality standard? Ever heard of the expression "You get what you paid for?"

Edited July 3, 2010 by Dau Que

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

The reason most of you were/are there is because you can't afford to have a "normal" wife here in the States, because of your age/look/financial status/social ranking, so on so forth. The rest of the pack (tourists) want CHEAP vacations. You get what you paid for. When your vacation is over and time for you to leave, do you even care the daily suffering (in your case, your whining, without the cheese of course) the VNese people have to face? I doubt it.

Whoa! Hold on there, cowboy!

I'm not fat and ugly - average weight, and I'm told reasonably attractive for my age. I'm older, but I married a girl who is reasonably close to my age - not a young sex toy, by any means. I have a house in an upper middle class neighborhood, and a comfortable six figure income. I would have no problems finding a "normal" wife here in the States. I married my wife because she was the first girl who got MY attention after my divorce. Her being from another country just added a little extra sense of adventure to the relationship, but I would have still married her if she already lived in the US and I met her socially here. Phuong was also not 'desperate to get outta the hell hole'. She worked hard, but she bought her own home, and had a respectable job as a school teacher. By VN standards, she was middle class, and reasonably happy.

Not all Americans who marry Vietnamese girls are old, ugly, and broke. Not all Vietnamese girls who marry Americans are desperate to leave Vietnam.

[Teacher Mark 53]

Nobody forces you to live there, short or long term. If for whatever reason you don't like, feel free to leave.

The reason most of you were/are there is because you can't afford to have a "normal" wife here in the States, because of your age/look/financial status/social ranking, so on so forth. The rest of the pack (tourists) want CHEAP vacations. You get what you paid for. When your vacation is over and time for you to leave, do you even care the daily suffering (in your case, your whining, without the cheese of course) the VNese people have to face? I doubt it.

The ladies over there need to get outta the hell hole. Both sides benefit. Simple and straight forward.

You paid so cheaply for everything and you want quality standard? Ever heard of the expression "You get what you paid for?"

The expession is "You get what you pay for" idiot.

[BinhJerome 14]

Nobody forces you to live there, short or long term. If for whatever reason you don't like, feel free to leave.

The reason most of you were/are there is because you can't afford to have a "normal" wife here in the States, because of your age/look/financial status/social ranking, so on so forth. The rest of the pack (tourists) want CHEAP vacations. You get what you paid for. When your vacation is over and time for you to leave, do you even care the daily suffering (in your case, your whining, without the cheese of course) the VNese people have to face? I doubt it.

The ladies over there need to get outta the hell hole. Both sides benefit. Simple and straight forward.

You paid so cheaply for everything and you want quality standard? Ever heard of the expression "You get what you paid for?"

I didn't tee off on you for comments you made earlier on one of my posts about my wife wanting to leave me since I now moved to Vietnam, I dont know who you think you are, maybe you are the fat old guy that cant find a woman in the states. I found Binh simply because I did not like the American value on a relationship, far to often they are based on sex not love and knowledge. Any man worth his salt will agree that far to often any relationship with an American girl leads to the bedroom quickly, often before you truly know all of her darkest deepest secrets. I wanted to get to know a woman for who she was, and allow her to know me for who I was, to keep the sex out of the conversation, and out of the relationship. Many of my American friends that have married, find it to easy to fight and have the woman leave shortly after or have the man get sick of the woman and then he leaves, this all boils down to how well you know your partner prior to getting serious. If you ask any American man or woman on the street what their dreams are, some would say to find a wife/husband and have a family, but most would state something different, get rich, have a nice car, nice house, or a great job, if you were to ask that question in Vietnam, most of the men would probably say the same thing as they would in America, but if you flip that to women,they would more often than not say they want a FAMILY. Core values are far different in other cultures than that of Americans, this is at least my opinion, and I am not saying all American women are like that, but like Jim, Binh was the woman that first caught my attention, she was a professional, and a teacher, she had worked for ABC international school for 6 years as a full fledged teacher (not a teachers assistant) so she was very well off, and she is actually 6 months older than I am, but for me it was her personality, and her little quirks that made me fall for her. I am also not a great big fat guy, and I have had my fair share of attractive girl friends, so I would have to say that means I am not but ugly. For all your complaints about what "WE" do, maybe you should concentrate on your own relationship, and see if your woman is one of the gold diggers that you say all of them are. Hmm are you sleeping with one eye open??? What are you affraid of???? I know I sleep with both eyes closed, and that I do not have to ask my wife where she is going, or who she is talking to, because I know what my relationship is, I also dont fear that she will find someone else, and in stark contridiction to your accusations of her leaving me, each time I talk even about a visitor visa so she can come and meet my family, she does not press the details of when and for how long. My lawyer actually contacted me that filed the complaint with HCMC consulate, as many of you know already know there is a class action lawsuit that has been filed. My lawyer has said it will affect our case, and she could care less, so again this should point out that maybe you got the woman you need to sleep with one eye open on, but I think most of us actually got the good ones. Jerome

[BinhJerome 14]

I didn't tee off on you for comments you made earlier on one of my posts about my wife wanting to leave me since I now moved to Vietnam, I dont know who you think you are, maybe you are the fat old guy that cant find a woman in the states. I found Binh simply because I did not like the American value on a relationship, far to often they are based on sex not love and knowledge. Any man worth his salt will agree that far to often any relationship with an American girl leads to the bedroom quickly, often before you truly know all of her darkest deepest secrets. I wanted to get to know a woman for who she was, and allow her to know me for who I was, to keep the sex out of the conversation, and out of the relationship. Many of my American friends that have married, find it to easy to fight and have the woman leave shortly after or have the man get sick of the woman and then he leaves, this all boils down to how well you know your partner prior to getting serious. If you ask any American man or woman on the street what their dreams are, some would say to find a wife/husband and have a family, but most would state something different, get rich, have a nice car, nice house, or a great job, if you were to ask that question in Vietnam, most of the men would probably say the same thing as they would in America, but if you flip that to women,they would more often than not say they want a FAMILY. Core values are far different in other cultures than that of Americans, this is at least my opinion, and I am not saying all American women are like that, but like Jim, Binh was the woman that first caught my attention, she was a professional, and a teacher, she had worked for ABC international school for 6 years as a full fledged teacher (not a teachers assistant) so she was very well off, and she is actually 6 months older than I am, but for me it was her personality, and her little quirks that made me fall for her. I am also not a great big fat guy, and I have had my fair share of attractive girl friends, so I would have to say that means I am not but ugly. I also had a 6 figure job, my own house, and a nice 401k pension plan set up, I might not have been rich, but I was very comfortable, and I could afford to stay at 4 or 5 star hotels while here, but what we found is that they are very westernized, and for me I was about the experience, and that means staying in a more vietnamese hotel, so we decided to stay at the smaller local hotels instead of the bigger ones. NOT every person that comes to visit a Vietnamese woman is rich, most of us make a good living, and depending on where we live that is actually the factor that determines how comfortable we truly are. Living in Holly Wood California, making 60k a year you would be broke and could probably not even buy your own food, but that same 60k a year in Terre Hault Indiana, you would be one of the richer people around. I actually know quite a few foreigners that live in Vietnam and they have all found Vietnamese wives, most of them have bought a house, or are buying a house, and are planning on staying here for the rest of their lives, once again this goes totally against your assumptions for Vietnamese women. SO for all your complaints about what "WE" do, maybe you should concentrate on your own relationship, and see if your woman is one of the gold diggers that you say all of them are. Hmm are you sleeping with one eye open??? What are you affraid of???? I know I sleep with both eyes closed, and that I do not have to ask my wife where she is going, or who she is talking to, because I know what my relationship is, I also dont fear that she will find someone else, and in stark contridiction to your accusations of her leaving me, each time I talk even about a visitor visa so she can come and meet my family, she does not press the details of when and for how long. My lawyer actually contacted me that filed the complaint with HCMC consulate, as many of you know already know there is a class action lawsuit that has been filed. My lawyer has said it will affect our case, and she could care less, so again this should point out that maybe you got the woman you need to sleep with one eye open on, but I think most of us actually got the good ones. Jerome

[luckytxn 2,264]

I am just very lucky that there was a country that had hot babes so desperate to get out that they found this fat azz ugly American attractive enough at least for the short time till her green card is solid to play like she loves me. When she finally cuts the cord I am lucky there are a few million more there. Life is good.