Canadian Life Insurance Help Needed...

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Oh Ant - the answer my brother provided isn't going to make you happy. I think entirely separate from the answer, you are rightfully concerned about this relative's intentions. I would ask everyone close to you to remain tight lipped about your personal details if possible.

Good gawd - she is literally harassing you - asking you for a copy of your baby's birth cert? why? So she can take a life policy out on Baby A too? I can't imagine why she'd need it otherwise. Same thing wanting to know details about your husband's health - maybe she wants a policy on him too.

I think you should avoid this relative at all costs...hopefully you do not feel obligated to allow her into your home, because you don't have to...not matter what guilt-inducing things she tries to throw your way. That is a truly toxic relationship

It wouldn't be a bad thing to keep track of her comments in case you need to file something in the future with the police

Once a policy has been placed, the owners have control. If they choose not to give up the policy and they continue to pay the premiums, the policy will remain. This rule is the same for children’s policies when they turn 18. The owner remains in control. If the insured wishes to make changes, they’ll have to go through the owner.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Udella&Wiz

[Revenesque 2]

Dang, Ant--what a bizarre position you are in!

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks again for your replies. Here are more replies back to you too....

Your story makes me wonder if my VERY estranged father hasnt done the same thing to me and taken out insurance policys on me when I was a minor and my parents divorced... To be honest I wouldnt put it past him.

Inky-Sorry to hear about your father too. I know what you mean here too, as my parents are divorced too. Seriously...You might want to look into that about your estranged father....I don't want the same thing to happen to you here as it did for me....Scary, indeed!

Wow Ant I'm scared for you. I really hope you can get those policies canceled. It was wise of you to keep your families info private she seems like a nut. Once you find out what you can do about the policies then you can do what is needed to keep you and your family safe.

Ontarkie-Lol.."Nut" does not even begin to describe how this person is and how they have been throughout my life....And yes, I am scared for mine and my family's well-being, especially regarding this further on down the road too. Unfortunately, from what I've read and asked about, I can't get them cancelled myself, as I don't own the policies. However, I'm trying to figure out if there is some other way out of this mess. In the meantime, yes, I will definitely focus on keeping me and my family safe, especially in dealings with legal matters such as this.

Oh Ant - the answer my brother provided isn't going to make you happy. I think entirely separate from the answer, you are rightfully concerned about this relative's intentions. I would ask everyone close to you to remain tight lipped about your personal details if possible.

Good gawd - she is literally harassing you - asking you for a copy of your baby's birth cert? why? So she can take a life policy out on Baby A too? I can't imagine why she'd need it otherwise. Same thing wanting to know details about your husband's health - maybe she wants a policy on him too.

I think you should avoid this relative at all costs...hopefully you do not feel obligated to allow her into your home, because you don't have to...not matter what guilt-inducing things she tries to throw your way. That is a truly toxic relationship

It wouldn't be a bad thing to keep track of her comments in case you need to file something in the future with the police

Once a policy has been placed, the owners have control. If they choose not to give up the policy and they continue to pay the premiums, the policy will remain. This rule is the same for children’s policies when they turn 18. The owner remains in control. If the insured wishes to make changes, they’ll have to go through the owner.

Udella&Wiz-Again, thanks for e-mailing your brother regarding this issue. And thanks too, for posting an answer to my questions/concerns. Yeah, it's too bad about the answer (lol...actually, that was sort of what I expected anyways), but at least I know that this a fact, and not just some made-up thing that the owner has control of such policies. Sigh, it is people like that I have to deal with that give insurance a bad name. There are situations where insurance works, but in this case, this is not one of them. How people can get away with stuff like this....makes me wonder....

And yes, I am concerned about all of this, just as you and everyone else (well those that I've talked to anyways) about this too. In the meantime keep tight-lipped about this and try to find ways to protect me and my family about stuff like this too. For example, keeping documents safe and secure, so that people like this don't get a hold of such. As well, I do keep track of contacts/communications with them too....

I'm debating whether to get others (other family, friends, legal people, etc.) involved in this.....Not sure if this would make things worse or not....

Harassment and Toxic..I don't even know where to begin, as this is been on-going for years and years...

I'm sure if they had it their way, they would have a policy on everyone. But rest assured, they are not going to have policies and more polices on me and/or my family here!

In the meantime, I have "disowned" and "avoid at all costs" this person...As really, we don't need people like this in our lives.....

Dang, Ant--what a bizarre position you are in!

Revenesque-Lol...Bizarre but true...'Tis the story of my life, I suppose....And there are many tales to tell here....

Update: I just contacted a few more insurance agencies here in the USA, and they confirmed again what Udella&Wiz's brother stated. Sigh....

I might want to contact other insurance agencies in Canada, to ask for further information...Can anyone recommend a Canadian agent?

But I am also wondering (more questions):

Even though I'm not the owner of the policy, do I still have the right to know if it exists and that I and/or my family are the ones being insured?

Do I have the right to know when the policies were opened and how long they have/will be in effect for?

Do I have the right to know what type of policy and how much the policies are worth and/or how much they insured me for?

Can more policies be opened on me (as an adult) without my prior knowledge and/or consent? Can this be done to my family too?

Is there some sort of Canadian insurance ethics board and/or organization that I can report this to as well?

Since I am here in the USA, and the policy is a Canadian policy...Is there some technicality behind this so that the owner can't collect?

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions, would be appreicated too. Thanks.

Ant

Edited March 12, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[Kathryn41 3,205]

It is disturbing - and it is an invasion of privacy and there may be something you can pursue on that aspect. You might want to start sending her health bulletins - telling her you and your husband and child keep having these amazing check-ups - you are in such perfect health that the doctors expect you all to live to be over 100. Stress how fortunate you are to be blessed with such good genes and have access to such great medical care because they do all sorts of extra tests that they don't normally do in Canada - and you have passed them all with flying colours!

Do you know the insurers where she has purchased the policies? If so, you could also contact them and let them know that you have a lot of suspicions about this person, that you are in perfect health as are your family members, yet this person seems to be obsessed with your health, pressing you for private details about your life and focusing over and over again on your well-being, then taking out insurance policies on you without your permission - and she is no relation to you. Tell them you have very serious concerns about her motivation and suggest that they investigate her themselves. Plant the seeds of doubt in the insurer's minds and they may decide to cancel the policies on their own.

If you have more serious concerns about these policies and her invasion of your privacy, file a complaint of harassment against her with the police as well as a restraining order.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Kathryn41

[Jay & Beverly 0]

I'm really not getting the big picture of what the problem is with this situation. If the policy holder is older than you then it is very reasonable and quite likely that you would out-live them rendering these policies useless. Someone else is paying for something they probably will never collect on and that would be money out of their pocket.

Heaven forbid something happen to you (or anyone this person has policies on) but if something suspicious does happen who do you think will become suspect numero uno?

Although I can tell you are upset by this situation, as a person outside of the situation and if these policies are legal, I don't think you have a leg to stand on to make demands that they cancel the policies or that they change the beneficiaries to be your child or husband. Your best bet is just to put it out of mind however difficult that may be.

Whether or not you agree with this person collecting on the policies I do think you should reconsider your own stance on insurance. You had previously mentioned that you're against life insurance and all forms for insurance. The point of life insurance is to protect the people that you leave behind at the time of your death. I'm not sure how old your child is but if tomorrow were to be the day your time on earth ended, your immediate family would be negatively affected by the loss of income that you would have been able to contribute to the family if you lived to a full and normal life expectancy. If you and your husband each rely on one another to pay your mortgage that would be be a significant burden upon him especially if there were significant medical expense racked up. You would be a fool to not have polices of your own in place for your husband and child to ensure they are protected. Having a child and not doing everything you can to protect them in the event of your death, I feel, is very irresponsible.

[Residentangel 1]

Email the Office of the Privacy Commissioner --> generalinfo@oipc.ab.ca

They'll be able to tell you if there is anything you can do about it and possibly point you in the right direction.

[trailmix 77]

I'm really not getting the big picture of what the problem is with this situation. If the policy holder is older than you then it is very reasonable and quite likely that you would out-live them rendering these policies useless. Someone else is paying for something they probably will never collect on and that would be money out of their pocket.

Heaven forbid something happen to you (or anyone this person has policies on) but if something suspicious does happen who do you think will become suspect numero uno?

Although I can tell you are upset by this situation, as a person outside of the situation and if these policies are legal, I don't think you have a leg to stand on to make demands that they cancel the policies or that they change the beneficiaries to be your child or husband. Your best bet is just to put it out of mind however difficult that may be.

Whether or not you agree with this person collecting on the policies I do think you should reconsider your own stance on insurance. You had previously mentioned that you're against life insurance and all forms for insurance. The point of life insurance is to protect the people that you leave behind at the time of your death. I'm not sure how old your child is but if tomorrow were to be the day your time on earth ended, your immediate family would be negatively affected by the loss of income that you would have been able to contribute to the family if you lived to a full and normal life expectancy. If you and your husband each rely on one another to pay your mortgage that would be be a significant burden upon him especially if there were significant medical expense racked up. You would be a fool to not have polices of your own in place for your husband and child to ensure they are protected. Having a child and not doing everything you can to protect them in the event of your death, I feel, is very irresponsible.

Insurance - of any type (aside from those required by law, like auto insurance) should be viewed by each and every person as an option based on THEIR particular personal situation. That, in my opinion, does not make them a fool - it makes them a thinking person.

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Hi Everyone,

But I am also wondering (more questions):

Even though I'm not the owner of the policy, do I still have the right to know if it exists and that I and/or my family are the ones being insured?

Do I have the right to know when the policies were opened and how long they have/will be in effect for?

Do I have the right to know what type of policy and how much the policies are worth and/or how much they insured me for?

Can more policies be opened on me (as an adult) without my prior knowledge and/or consent? Can this be done to my family too?

Is there some sort of Canadian insurance ethics board and/or organization that I can report this to as well?

Since I am here in the USA, and the policy is a Canadian policy...Is there some technicality behind this so that the owner can't collect?

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions, would be appreicated too. Thanks.

Ant

I'll ask about the ethics board...this is in Ontario right? I'll also ask about the fact that you aren't a Cdn resident anymore.

I don't think you have many rights since you are not the owner

[Udella&Wiz 325]

OK chica - here are the latest answers....i think you'll be happy to hear folks cannot take out more policies on you at this age

Here are my original questions to him:

i) is there an life Insurance ethics board/ombudsman of some type in Canada or ON? Would they deal with this type of issue?

ii) can anyone take out an insurance policy on anyone? Even if they’re an adult? Is the payout on death affected by the fact that the insured is not longer a resident of Canada?

And the answers......

1) I’d start with the FSCO - http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/. I’m not sure if they can help.

2) You need to have an insurable interest on the person you’re taking the life insurance out on. If the insured is 18 years of age or older, they will have to sign off on the application.

3) The payout is not affected by residence. If you take it out in Canada but move somewhere else, the policy still remains in force.

[antda 13]

More replies...

(bear with me, as I'm trying to reply with the new VJ system...)

Kathryn41-Lol..about the health bulletins. Believe it or not, I have actually done that, so that they would quit bugging me. I've bragged about the US healthcare system, amazing checkups, and whatever else about me and/my family's health. Lol..How many times do I have to say "hospital food is like room service", before this gets out of hand? Seriously though, I think this has backfired on me somewhat, as the more I tell about this, the more they want to inquire. For example, they had the nerve to look up the contact information for our doctors, and look up other financial-related information. Scary? An invasion of privacy, you bet! Not sure if I can do much there though, as it's a "free for all" for people to look up information. Nevertheless, I do make sure that I keep me and my family safe when using the internet. Oh and for good genetics...Not sure there, but I can tell you that both of my grandmas are 85+ years old...lol..guess that says something?

As for the insurers...That's a tough one...In the past, I have tried contacting them, but they didn't respond to me. Well, this comes to no surprise really, as the insurance agents are "bed buddies" (lol..so my husband likes to say to mean "really close friends"...) to this relative...So I can't get that person on my side, regardless....

Now I could find "annother agent on my side".....Sigh.....

Lol..I have thought about restraining orders in the past....But I don't want to get the cops involved at this point. Nevertheless, I do keep track of this person's e-mail and/or other written contacts, and if the situation goes out of hand, I'll definitely have to do something legal about this. Meanwhile, "the border" separates us, so that's good, right?

Residentangel-Thanks for the e-mail and info. I'll have to check that out...

From what I see so far on the website, it has something to do with privacy issues.....

Trailmix-I agree with your stance about insurance....

It is viewed differently by every person....and to think about such...makes one a thinking person, indeed!

On that note, here is my stance on insurace: I hate it...Don't need it...Don't want it....

And the only insurances I have are: auto insurance (as required by law, liability only, very high deductable), and homeowners insurance (required by the bank because of the mortgage, very high deductable)....

Oh and by the way, insurance does not cover everthing..There's always a "catch 22"...just a thought...

More replies later....

Ant

[antda 13]

Jay&Beverly-Lol..True, statistically, I can outlive that person. However, there is always that chance that they can outlive me. Anything can happen, I suppose, and I don't want to go through the rest of my life thinking that there is some remote chance that this person can collect off of mine and/or my family's unforseen circumstances. True too, that these policies are legal, but that does not mean that they are ethical. So am I and/or my family supposed to sit passively by, while someone else does something morally wrong? Lol..I'm sure you'd be thinking in a similar way too, if someone did this to you and/or your family. I can move on, if nothing else can be done, I suppose. But again, this will still linger on in the back of my mind...What a bad feeling to have...And in that way, I can't move on...

As for the stance on life insurance, yes, for some people it works, and for others it doesn't. And if others want to take out policies for themselves and/or their families, it is none of my business, and they have every right to do so. However, me and my family don't believe in such, and to have someone else impose this on us (as detailed in my previous posts) is not right.

I understand too, that there is a need to "plan for the unexpected" which me and my family will do so accordingly. Rest assured that we will get our "final affairs" in order, and it will be a smooth transition as to when/if this happens. But these are plans between me and my family, and I don't need anyone else involved, especially those who don't have our best interests at heart....

Ant

Edited March 16, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

I'll ask about the ethics board...this is in Ontario right? I'll also ask about the fact that you aren't a Cdn resident anymore.

I don't think you have many rights since you are not the owner

Udella&Wiz-Yes, this is Ontario that I'm talking about. And yes, I am aware (as I have been told before also) that because I'm not the owner, that I do not have many direct rights as to what to do with the policies itself...

But let me ask you this too: Do I have any rights to know what policies are in mine and/or my family's name?

OK chica - here are the latest answers....i think you'll be happy to hear folks cannot take out more policies on you at this age

And the answers......

1) I’d start with the FSCO - <a href="http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/" target="_blank">http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/</a>. I’m not sure if they can help.

2) You need to have an insurable interest on the person you’re taking the life insurance out on. If the insured is 18 years of age or older, they will have to sign off on the application.

3) The payout is not affected by residence. If you take it out in Canada but move somewhere else, the policy still remains in force.

Udella&Wiz-Thanks for e-mailing your brother again and thanks for posting the answers here.

It's great to hear that they cannot take out more policies on me and/or my husband, since we are adults and therefore consent would be required if they do such.... (and no, I and/or my husband won't ever give consent to that!)

However, I worry about my minor son...Is parental signature required there? Or can any adult sign for them there?

What exactly is needed for others to take a policy on him? For example, a birth certificate and/or other ID? (I need to know this, as I need to know what exact documents I need to protect and make sure this person never gets a hold of).

Can you define as to what you mean by "insurable interest"? I don't exactly know what you mean there...Thanks...

Not good to hear about the residence thing.....sigh...I guess I can't get away from that in the USA....

By the way...Can a policy in my maiden name in Canada still be valid, even though I use my married name here in the USA?

Ant