islamic marriage and recognized

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I can cut and paste, too. That seems to the norm re how to "prove" your point here.

Living Shari`ah > Ask The Scholar

Question and Answer Details

Name of Questioner

Sami - United States

Title

Witnesses & Mahr (Dower) for Marriage

Question

Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. Please elaborate on the importance of two witnesses for the bride. Also explain what is the amount of the mahr in dollars for marriage, according to Shari`ah. Can any Muslim perform the nikah (marriage) ceremony? Is it necessary that the documents be signed by the bride and the groom in the presence of witnesses? Jazakum Allah khayran.

Date

20/Sep/2004

Name of Mufti

Muzammil Siddiqi

Answer

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, we commend your eagerness to become well acquainted with Islam and its teachings, which is the way Allah has chosen for the welfare of His servants.

Marriage in Islam is a solemn contract for which the Shari`ah lays down rules and arrangements to guarantee its stability.

Valid marriage has to meet certain requirements such as ishhar (announcement), the payment of the dower, the consent of both parties, the permission of the wali (woman’s guardian), and the presence of witnesses.

In his response to your question, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

For marriage a minimum of two witnesses is required. These witnesses are not for the bride or for the groom, but they are the witnesses for the marriage of the couple for whom they accept to be the witnesses. Nikah (marriage ceremony) is both a legal ceremony and a public ceremony. According to the Shari`ah, there should be two witnesses for all important legal contracts. Nikah as a public ceremony should also be done in the presence of many people (or at least two as the minimum), so that more people know that this man and this woman have come together as a legally married couple.

Concerning the mahr (dowry), Almighty Allah says, “And give women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it and enjoy it with right good cheer” (An-Nisaa’: 4); “Those among them (i.e., your wives) whom you enjoy give them their dowers as determined. But there is no blame on you, if after a dower is determined, you mutually agree to vary it” (An-Nisaa’: 24); “If you divorce them before consummation and you have fixed a dower for them then half of the dower is due to them, unless they forgive it or it is forgiven by him in whose hand is the marriage tie” (Al Baqarah: 237).

According to the Shari`ah, the mahr should also be reasonable. There is no fixed amount of mahr in the Shari`ah. It should be given according to the financial status of the husband and according to the time and place. We cannot apply the mahr of the 7th century in the 20th century, nor can the mahr of India or Pakistan be applied in the United States and Canada. As the financial conditions of the people in different times and places change, so the amount of mahr can be determined accordingly. However, it is a principle of the Shari`ah that the mahr should not be too expensive. It is wrong to declare a large amount of mahr at the time of marriage to show off or to boast. Sometimes the bride’s family puts pressure on the groom and his family for a large amount of mahr so that they may show their pride to their relatives and friends, boasting that their daughter was married for a big mahr. Sometimes the groom declares a big amount and secretly thinks that this is just a commitment on paper. People are often heard saying, “Write whatever you want, no one asks and no one pays.” This is a play with the rules of Allah. Muslims should only commit what they are really capable of paying and what they intend to pay.

It is haram (unlawful) to enjoy relations with a wife and then deny her the mahr promised to her. However, we must keep in mind that mahr is not a bride’s price. It is a woman’s right and it signifies a husband’s love and appreciation for his wife. In the Qur’an it is called sadaq, which means “a token of friendship.” It is also called nihlah, which means “a nice gift or present.” Mahr also signifies a husband’s commitment to take care of his wife’s financial needs (nafaqah).

It is true that the nikah ceremony can be performed by any Muslim, but in order to organize this serious legal contract, in Muslim countries some people are authorized by the governments to perform the nikah or to register the nikah. These people are called ma’dhun shar`i or qadi, etc. In America, the imams of the Islamic centers or someone authorized by the Islamic centers should officiate the nikah. Some states in the United States and some provinces of Canada require that the person who performs the marriage must be a justice of the peace, or a judge or a licensed clergy. In some states it is illegal for an unlicensed person to perform marriages.

In the United States and Canada it is also required for the couples who intend to get married to take a license before their marriage. The person who performs the marriage then signs this license along with two witnesses. After that the license is sent to the Registrar of Marriages. The Registrar’s office then issues a marriage certificate. No marriage in the US and Canada is recognized as a legal marriage unless it is registered.

Some Muslims do not follow these procedures. They say that in an Islamic marriage, paper work is not necessary. Or they say that they only care for what is halal (lawful) and want to marry according to the Shari`ah; they do not care whether the marriage is legally recognized here or not. However, there are some cases where Muslim women have suffered greatly due to these unregistered marriages. Some Muslim men marry without any legal papers and then they leave their wives. These women do not know what to do and how to get divorce from their husbands who abandon them. They go to the US and Canadian courts and they are told there that according to the local laws they are not considered married. These women have no proof of their marriage and the courts have no marriage record of these women. They go to the local Islamic centers in the US and Canada and the centers are unable to help them, because the laws in these countries do not give the right of divorce to anyone except to the local superior courts.

It is important for Muslim men and women to have their marriages and divorces properly documented. Islam teaches fairness and justice in all cases.

Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...6#ixzz0hwWwkTJ2

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Over the years, women have come to the MENA board asking if it's ok to do an "Islamic marriage" without registering the contract. Reasons given invariably have something to do with being able to share a bed and believe that Allah approves of it. The reason that the Muslim marriage is called a nikah contract and not a zawaj contract is because it a binding agreement regarding the conditions by which a couple can enjoy halal sexual relations. The thing that really puzzles me is that few seem to mind this use of Islam as shag-o-rama. We won't do that with Christian marriage, but, hey, that's what Islam is for - duh! Marriage in the US is when things get real.

Marriage in Islam is intended to be permanent and legal. It is not meant to be entered into so you can share hotel rooms, "audition" each other while you decide if you want to stay together, or because it's inconvenient or "too hard" to marry legally overseas. Over time, women who didn't register their contracts began to encourage others that is was ok to do so because it has "never been required" by God.

I wonder where did the idea that early Muslims did not register their contracts came from? Why are you so sure they didn't?

I also wonder how Muslims, in particular, justify essentially saying "** you" to the laws of Muslim countries when they "marry" there, but are more than willing to kiss butt large to follow the laws of a non-Muslim country in order to get a visa for their man and marry them legally here. If they are so opposed to legalizing marriage when "marrying Islamically", why aren't they opposed to legalizing their marriage in the States under "kufr" laws?

That seems like big fat hypocrisy to me, having not much to do with religion or principle.

[treehugger 23]

Praise God! You married Islamically in the way that did require lying to immigration that you weren't REALLY married, so you need to file for a K1 or explain to friends and family that you're going to have to marry again because the first one was only "in God's eyes" or some such nonsense blathered on about every time this subject is raised. May you be mightily blessed!

Umm, sorry to wade in here, but BellaChele68 has actually applied for CR-1, not a K1. I might be foolish in suggesting this, but most Muslims in the Middle East have their Islamic marriages well before the wedding, not so that they can 'lay' together but just in order so that they can be together in a 'halal' way. In fact USCIS is aware of this, which is why one of the stipulations of applying for IR-1/CR-1 is that the marriage must have been consummated, in order for it to be a full and complete marriage. And no, this isn't being anti-Islamic, as even in English law, even if a couple have kids before marriage but have not consummated after marriage, the marriage can be annulled.

[Ban Hammer 13,206]

Umm, sorry to wade in here, but BellaChele68 has actually applied for CR-1, not a K1. I might be foolish in suggesting this, but most Muslims in the Middle East have their Islamic marriages well before the wedding, not so that they can 'lay' together but just in order so that they can be together in a 'halal' way. In fact USCIS is aware of this, which is why one of the stipulations of applying for IR-1/CR-1 is that the marriage must have been consummated, in order for it to be a full and complete marriage. And no, this isn't being anti-Islamic, as even in English law, even if a couple have kids before marriage but have not consummated after marriage, the marriage can be annulled.

that error was corrected in post #86 - she left out a key word.

Edited March 12, 2010 by charles!

[treehugger 23]

that error was corrected in post #86 - she left out a key word.

Sorry, Sofiyya, thanks Charles

[aisha kandisha 0]

I can cut and paste, too. That seems to the norm re how to "prove" your point here.

Living Shari`ah > Ask The Scholar

Question and Answer Details

Name of Questioner

Sami - United States

Title

Witnesses & Mahr (Dower) for Marriage

Question

Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. Please elaborate on the importance of two witnesses for the bride. Also explain what is the amount of the mahr in dollars for marriage, according to Shari`ah. Can any Muslim perform the nikah (marriage) ceremony? Is it necessary that the documents be signed by the bride and the groom in the presence of witnesses? Jazakum Allah khayran.

Date

20/Sep/2004

Name of Mufti

Muzammil Siddiqi

Answer

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear brother in Islam, we commend your eagerness to become well acquainted with Islam and its teachings, which is the way Allah has chosen for the welfare of His servants.

Marriage in Islam is a solemn contract for which the Shari`ah lays down rules and arrangements to guarantee its stability.

Valid marriage has to meet certain requirements such as ishhar (announcement), the payment of the dower, the consent of both parties, the permission of the wali (woman’s guardian), and the presence of witnesses.

In his response to your question, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

For marriage a minimum of two witnesses is required. These witnesses are not for the bride or for the groom, but they are the witnesses for the marriage of the couple for whom they accept to be the witnesses. Nikah (marriage ceremony) is both a legal ceremony and a public ceremony. According to the Shari`ah, there should be two witnesses for all important legal contracts. Nikah as a public ceremony should also be done in the presence of many people (or at least two as the minimum), so that more people know that this man and this woman have come together as a legally married couple.

Concerning the mahr (dowry), Almighty Allah says, “And give women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it and enjoy it with right good cheer” (An-Nisaa’: 4); “Those among them (i.e., your wives) whom you enjoy give them their dowers as determined. But there is no blame on you, if after a dower is determined, you mutually agree to vary it” (An-Nisaa’: 24); “If you divorce them before consummation and you have fixed a dower for them then half of the dower is due to them, unless they forgive it or it is forgiven by him in whose hand is the marriage tie” (Al Baqarah: 237).

According to the Shari`ah, the mahr should also be reasonable. There is no fixed amount of mahr in the Shari`ah. It should be given according to the financial status of the husband and according to the time and place. We cannot apply the mahr of the 7th century in the 20th century, nor can the mahr of India or Pakistan be applied in the United States and Canada. As the financial conditions of the people in different times and places change, so the amount of mahr can be determined accordingly. However, it is a principle of the Shari`ah that the mahr should not be too expensive. It is wrong to declare a large amount of mahr at the time of marriage to show off or to boast. Sometimes the bride’s family puts pressure on the groom and his family for a large amount of mahr so that they may show their pride to their relatives and friends, boasting that their daughter was married for a big mahr. Sometimes the groom declares a big amount and secretly thinks that this is just a commitment on paper. People are often heard saying, “Write whatever you want, no one asks and no one pays.” This is a play with the rules of Allah. Muslims should only commit what they are really capable of paying and what they intend to pay.

It is haram (unlawful) to enjoy relations with a wife and then deny her the mahr promised to her. However, we must keep in mind that mahr is not a bride’s price. It is a woman’s right and it signifies a husband’s love and appreciation for his wife. In the Qur’an it is called sadaq, which means “a token of friendship.” It is also called nihlah, which means “a nice gift or present.” Mahr also signifies a husband’s commitment to take care of his wife’s financial needs (nafaqah).

It is true that the nikah ceremony can be performed by any Muslim, but in order to organize this serious legal contract, in Muslim countries some people are authorized by the governments to perform the nikah or to register the nikah. These people are called ma’dhun shar`i or qadi, etc. In America, the imams of the Islamic centers or someone authorized by the Islamic centers should officiate the nikah. Some states in the United States and some provinces of Canada require that the person who performs the marriage must be a justice of the peace, or a judge or a licensed clergy. In some states it is illegal for an unlicensed person to perform marriages.

In the United States and Canada it is also required for the couples who intend to get married to take a license before their marriage. The person who performs the marriage then signs this license along with two witnesses. After that the license is sent to the Registrar of Marriages. The Registrar’s office then issues a marriage certificate. No marriage in the US and Canada is recognized as a legal marriage unless it is registered.

Some Muslims do not follow these procedures. They say that in an Islamic marriage, paper work is not necessary. Or they say that they only care for what is halal (lawful) and want to marry according to the Shari`ah; they do not care whether the marriage is legally recognized here or not. However, there are some cases where Muslim women have suffered greatly due to these unregistered marriages. Some Muslim men marry without any legal papers and then they leave their wives. These women do not know what to do and how to get divorce from their husbands who abandon them. They go to the US and Canadian courts and they are told there that according to the local laws they are not considered married. These women have no proof of their marriage and the courts have no marriage record of these women. They go to the local Islamic centers in the US and Canada and the centers are unable to help them, because the laws in these countries do not give the right of divorce to anyone except to the local superior courts.

It is important for Muslim men and women to have their marriages and divorces properly documented. Islam teaches fairness and justice in all cases.

Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...6#ixzz0hwWwkTJ2

Once again, you do not prove what you claim. This does not say they are committing the haram or are fornicating if they have not registered their marriages. No one is arguing whether it is the advisable, preferred, wise thing to do. The objection is to you running around here slandering people by calling them fornicators and guilty of the haram who have followed the requirements for a nikah. What you have in fact states they have married according to the shariah. It makes the distinction between a shariah marriage and a legal marriage.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

A lot has been posted, but the issue at hand really is this - what are the bare minimum requirements to make a valid marriage contract in islam? 12 points were in numerated, but I don't see anything in any of them that prove that registering your marriage is a fard in terms of a valid marriage contract. You so kindly posted it actually:

Marriage in Islam is a solemn contract for which the Shari`ah lays down rules and arrangements to guarantee its stability.

Valid marriage has to meet certain requirements such as ishhar (announcement), the payment of the dower, the consent of both parties, the permission of the wali (woman’s guardian), and the presence of witnesses.

Registering the contract is all well and good, and an excellent protection for women. I don't dispute that. Everyone should register their marriage to gain protection under the law. But does that make it a fard, an integral part of the marriage contract, without which the contract is invalid? Is a marriage not valid until it's duly registered with the state? You state that it isn't, but don't state any evidence.

I'm comfortable with my decisions, and from here on out, won't let myself be goaded into defending them to anonymous people on a message board.

Assalamu Alaikum wa RahmatuAllahi wa Barakatu.

[aisha kandisha 0]

You haven't verified anything. You don't know if they are who they say they are anymore than you know who I am. You're using the crediential excuse to avoid dealing with my posts directly. It's a long established ploy. No harm would come to any of you if you addressed each of my points head on; instead you clutter the thread with links, cut and paste and personal attacks because you're more concerned about your so-called "Islamic marriages" being slandered than you are about being able to explain your views without a crutch.

I respect the schools and the texts enough to have dedicated my life to the law in a way that allows me to use my own words rather than cutting and pasting or linking to a website. I have forgotten more about the lives, reasoning and the history of the scholars than you've ever known. I would consider this debate to be more of a challenge if there was even one person who wasn't caught up in sophomoric rhetoric.

But, not so far. Tomorrow is another day.

You have never said who you are and you bloviating about how much you have studied and forgotten is a clear indicator that you haven't learned even the basics.

[aisha kandisha 0]

Over the years, women have come to the MENA board asking if it's ok to do an "Islamic marriage" without registering the contract. Reasons given invariably have something to do with being able to share a bed and believe that Allah approves of it. The reason that the Muslim marriage is called a nikah contract and not a zawaj contract is because it a binding agreement regarding the conditions by which a couple can enjoy halal sexual relations. The thing that really puzzles me is that few seem to mind this use of Islam as shag-o-rama. We won't do that with Christian marriage, but, hey, that's what Islam is for - duh! Marriage in the US is when things get real.

Marriage in Islam is intended to be permanent and legal. It is not meant to be entered into so you can share hotel rooms, "audition" each other while you decide if you want to stay together, or because it's inconvenient or "too hard" to marry legally overseas. Over time, women who didn't register their contracts began to encourage others that is was ok to do so because it has "never been required" by God.

I wonder where did the idea that early Muslims did not register their contracts came from? Why are you so sure they didn't?

I also wonder how Muslims, in particular, justify essentially saying "** you" to the laws of Muslim countries when they "marry" there, but are more than willing to kiss butt large to follow the laws of a non-Muslim country in order to get a visa for their man and marry them legally here. If they are so opposed to legalizing marriage when "marrying Islamically", why aren't they opposed to legalizing their marriage in the States under "kufr" laws?

That seems like big fat hypocrisy to me, having not much to do with religion or principle.

You can go on and on and think by posting more and more words you are somehow convincing, yet you continue to contradict yourself and your claim of fornication. My point of responding to any of this was to advise people to consider who they take rulings from, and a person who has not identified herself on an immigration forum and whose views are peculiar is not a great choice and not how any of us want to answer to Allah ta'ala on the day of judgment. That has been done. At this point, anyone, even a brand spanking new convert, who takes from you after reading how you write and sees the language you use, that you don't identify yourself or substantiate your credentials, sees your lack of humility, and sees the blurb about a vibrator in your signature, has already been sufficiently warned. I am not needed. Now go ahead and prattle on that I am backing off because of your tremendous power; while it is untrue, I suspect it is what you will do. Imam Ali radiallahu anhu said, "He who argues with the fool is foolish" and I've been foolish for going beyond my initial intent in warning people about you and continuing on.

If anyone is reading this and is looking for reliable information, please refer to UmmSqueakster. She doesn't claim to be a scholar, but she can point you in the direction to get information that conforms to the religion and comes from known entities who display adab and humility.

Edited March 12, 2010 by aisha kandisha

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There's nothing wrong with my basics. I purposely leave holes to be filled by those who claim registration isn't a requirement because you haven't proven that it wasn't done in the Prophets time either. It's been claimed that Mahr is an option, too, which is not true.

We are all anonymous on this message board, btw, but those who agree with each other because they have a paper marriage to defend seem to have no problem with the anonymous nature of their supporters. I don't care who you are, if I see any of you cautioning someone to be careful about how you handle USCIS for a K1 after a paper marriage, I will call you out, since it's such a proper way to do things.

Gotta run. I'll continue this later.

Treehugger, no problem. Thx, Chuck!

Edited March 12, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

FYI- I know plenty about the minimal requirements for a nikah. I had my first one before many or most of you were born. I never had to ofuscate about in MENA or the USA. It takes a certain kind of person, I suppose, to marrry in God's eyes, then mitigate and deny their belief to governments while claiming to be married to friends and family. I wouldn't allow my child to be alone with a man they couldn't divorce, inherit from, or register as the father of their children. I can't imagine elevating the marriage law of a non-Muslim country over that of my fellow Muslkms, but, hey, I'm crazy that way.

Let's see if any fatwas can be found recommending this course of action when applying for a visa. I'm curious about which learned online scoholars of the do it yourself crowd would concur.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Sofiyya

[treehugger 23]

Personally, I don't understand why anyone, from whatever religion, would have a religious ceremony and consider themselves to be married in all senses of the word, and yet apply for a K1. Is there a reason people feel compelled to do this? (Honest question, please don't shoot me!)

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Don't worry about being shot. I've got your back llingering lingering question.

Muslims are to obey the law of the land unless it conflicts with religious obligations. Muslim countries allow you to fulfill those obligations throughly with all the minimals, only asking that the union be registered. Why is it halal to ignore this allowance for a paper marriage? Doing so means that you disobey a law that does not conflict with sharia. How does one justify doing that?

Personally, I don't understand why anyone, from whatever religion, would have a religious ceremony and consider themselves to be married in all senses of the word, and yet apply for a K1. Is there a reason people feel compelled to do this? (Honest question, please don't shoot me!)

[shoshoandhamada 0]

OMG!!

what did i get myslef into

walahee i will not ever post anything on here again

how did this simple queation blow up to something soo big!!!

IF you guys must know

i am from a good family alhamdulillah my family is saidi from upper egypt so if you know anything about that

the culture is something totally diferent it took my dad 6 months to finally say yes to him coz he is not nubian

PLZ PLZ PLZ MODERATORS HERE CLOSE THE THREAD!!!

[sara..... 371]

Personally, I don't understand why anyone, from whatever religion, would have a religious ceremony and consider themselves to be married in all senses of the word, and yet apply for a K1. Is there a reason people feel compelled to do this? (Honest question, please don't shoot me!)

at the risk of being flamed i will give one example............for a while in Egypt u could not register ur marraige because the embassy was refusing to give a paper they required to do it ........ so some married but could not register it.......some of them ended up having to do k1 because of it.........they were caught in a catch 22 if they stated they were married they could not give what was required at the embassy because the embassy demanded it to be registered but they couldn't register it but on the other hand if they claimed they were married they didn't meet the requirements for k1 there were a couple of couples even here on vj caught in that mess..........

sara

Edited March 12, 2010 by sara.....