Some people are such big meanies!

[mendeleev 68]

I believe it was the other way around...I believe Charles was baiting Mox....

What I saw, too, was Charles! baiting Mox. Bizarre action for a moderator ... but it was Charles! !!

[slim 1,514]

so, just because Mox and Charles don't play well together, the thread must be closed?

Nope. Charles! didn't close the thread because he and mox don't play well together, he closed the thread because of TOS violations. When you make charles! wear the mod hat, he's obligated to wear it.

[Joe_&_Nadiya 1]

Nope. Charles! didn't close the thread because he and mox don't play well together, he closed the thread because of TOS violations. When you make charles! wear the mod hat, he's obligated to wear it.

Sorry Slim...I'll have to poke the bear....where is the TOS violation?

[Martyshk 137]

I was so looking forward to going back and forth with VV in that thread...

You know mox and I tickle his funny bone. In our comments we did not violate any TOS, but later on it just got sidetracked...

[TBoneTX 44,679]

sounds like fascism....it's not right.... as TexasTBone says "si man" !!!!

Uh, si man?

[Cixelsyd 1]

First things first...:

Why in the hell couldn't this wait until after the weekend. You know I would much rather be trying to keep tabs on a cluster-f from work.

NOT that I don't do a f-ton-of-work (for those that are worried), but some of us need a little something to keep us sane through the week.

Second:

I really don't support either side. I'm inclined to give those with disputes a knife and just have at it. It did however seem (from an unedjimcated bystander) that Mox threw a big pie in the face to Charles when he was trying to do his job.

-Don't Flame me YET!-

After doing a little drink-n-read it appears there is a plethora of background info to suggest they've had a feud since before cave men discovered nude cave art.

Which leads me to my third.

Third:

For the love of polygamy would someone please bring some background to this apocalyptic battle. Who's cheerio's got urinated in? When/how did it all start. And if you're not tired of typing; why does Charles have such a negative stigma as a mod?

I'm not looking for who is right, who is wrong, just the facts as you know them. So some of us don't feel like a deaf guy in a mosh pit.

[Brad and Vika 129]

First things first...:

Why in the hell couldn't this wait until after the weekend. You know I would much rather be trying to keep tabs on a cluster-f from work.

NOT that I don't do a f-ton-of-work (for those that are worried), but some of us need a little something to keep us sane through the week.

Second:

I really don't support either side. I'm inclined to give those with disputes a knife and just have at it. It did however seem (from an unedjimcated bystander) that Mox threw a big pie in the face to Charles when he was trying to do his job.

-Don't Flame me YET!-

After doing a little drink-n-read it appears there is a plethora of background info to suggest they've had a feud since before cave men discovered nude cave art.

Which leads me to my third.

Third:

For the love of polygamy would someone please bring some background to this apocalyptic battle. Who's cheerio's got urinated in? When/how did it all start. And if you're not tired of typing; why does Charles have such a negative stigma as a mod?

I'm not looking for who is right, who is wrong, just the facts as you know them. So some of us don't feel like a deaf guy in a mosh pit.

Let me preface this explanation by saying that mox and I get along ok, but I have never had a PERSONAL problem with Charles! either. That includes his moderating. I have noticed moderators sometimes trying to wear both hats (member and mod) at once. As Kathryn41 said, that can be tough to do - and I think the answer is - don't. When a mod is firing back and forth like one of us regular Joes or Janes (no offense to Joe), they shouldn't put on the mod hat and start enforcing TOS from the middle of the flame spitting. Go get an independent third party to moderate.

Mox's side of the story goes something like this. One day he was posting along, minding his own business, and Charles was posting on the same thread. As mox tends to do, he took umbrage at some comment Charles made, and went into one of those firespitting-dragon-with-a-hangover-and sour-stomach rants. Charles put on his mod hat after spitting fire right back. Mox called no-fair, and the mods gaffed him off - so he called, emailed, reported, recorded, and generally bitched about Charles wherever he found him. That went on until he started making nice with Nessa, who happens to be married to Charles in the nonvirtual world. Charles apparently felt (again, according to mox) that this wasn't kosher, and Nessa too carried on the battle. Now whenever mox baits or spits fire at or about Nessa, Charles or some other mod steps in.

The situation got so ridiculous and entertaining that Ewok apparently told Charles to quit interacting with mox at all. If Charles had done that, it would have accomplished the moderating independence I suggest above. Instead Charles started locking and deleting mox's threads - in other words, interacting with him after Ewok told him to stop. So mox continued to voilate TOS in protest until Charles tagged Kathryn41 to step in and ban mox for a day.

Mox has without a doubt made a pain in the azz of himself to Charles and the moderating team. That doesn't change the fact that some mods can go off the reservation with total impunity, any time they want. When members protest and follow normal channels, we often get blown off or told that the mods are overworked and imperfect. Those explanations are followed by all communications amongst the mods and Ewok being a secret - so when Charles or another mod steps out like that we usually can't really tell what they were told by Ewok. In this case Ewok was pretty public with the "Charles is not to play in the sandbox with mox" language. So what gives?

[Brad and Vika 129]

Sorry Slim...I'll have to poke the bear....where is the TOS violation?

I asked Ewok the same question. He says he will be digging into the situation today - and both mox and Charles will have to explain some things. I suggested banning members and deleting offensive posts as the obvious alternative to locking threads. Since we eventually got to banning and deleting anyway, it seems logical.

Edited to say that mods who get too involved in fights could be banned from the forums they fight in - and members who chase a particular mod could be banned from the forums they chase a mod to. All done without restricting good (and fun) threads.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[mendeleev 68]

Does anyone here (besides me) remember Yodrak?

Yodrak was around a couple years ago. He posted a lot. I found him to be concise (sometimes to a fault), incisive, accurate and sometimes funny. He was a tremendous addition to VisaJourney and had great integrity. In the end, his integrity was his finest suit. He eventually became a moderator and was good at it. He had a light hand, fair hand.

One day, though, he apparently uncharacteristically lost his cool on in a string concerning Filipina and Thai women. He was criticized for it and criticized himself for it. Shortly afterward, he unfortunately disappeared for good. This is a shame, because his unfailingly accurate assessment of visa quandries was such a huge asset to the board. But, apparently, his sense of integrity forced him to leave after his misbehavior.

Current moderators, especially Charles!, just plain don't have either the insight or integrity that Yodrak displayed. It is a real shame that we have to put up with that sort of inferior moderation these days.

[StillThePrettiest 3]

...Mox threw a big pie in the face to Charles when he was trying to do his job.

except that it's part of Charles' mod job NOT to interact with Mox, so no

...please bring some background to this apocalyptic battle. Who's cheerio's got urinated in? When/how did it all start.

there's no one answer to that... it's just an immutable law of the universe, like gravity

why does Charles have such a negative stigma as a mod?

at least partly because he's the least objective of the moderation team, and still posts plenty of things that others deem offensive, in a major or minor way; misogynist, rude, whatever, yet seems to be untouchable... despite MANY complaints from the general VJ public, both when the announcement of his appointment was made, and since, about specific issues, this is the first time that there has been ANY acknowledgement that he maybe might sometimes occasionally not make the best calls

and that is Ewok's prerogative - I do understand that he wants to keep discipline/otherwise of his moderation team off the public boards; that's reasonable - but the whitewashing of charles has just been ridiculous in the past; he doesn't even fit the description of 'what makes a good mod' that the site admin has developed, but somehow we're all supposed to ignore that and just let him do his thing, however stupid/illogical/unfair/subjective we deem said thing to be

[visaveteran 1]

Personally, any day Mox is silenced is a good day. He asked for it...he got it.

I've never had any issue with Charles and he's rendered fair justice when I complained about personal attacks (which I rarely do). I don't consider my life defined by my VJ postings and my interactions with mods.

The VJ exists to help people get visas. The rest is just filler and anyone who takes it too seriously needs to get a life IMO.

As to my thread being reopened...I'm done. The posts have been interrupted and the energy lowered. Time to move to the next topic.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

So mox continued to voilate TOS in protest until Charles tagged Kathryn41 to step in and ban mox for a day.

Just to clarify - Charles didn't need to tag me to step in - when I signed in for the day I just followed the trail of all of the reports back to RUB and made my own decision.

Thanks for the history, though.

[mendeleev 68]

Just to clarify - Charles didn't need to tag me to step in - when I signed in for the day I just followed the trail of all of the reports back to RUB and made my own decision.

Thanks for the history, though.

Thanks for the clarification, Kathryn41. Did I get the history on Yodrak correct? What's your take on the relevant comparison between integrity between the two moderators in question?

[Brad and Vika 129]

Just to clarify - Charles didn't need to tag me to step in - when I signed in for the day I just followed the trail of all of the reports back to RUB and made my own decision.

Thanks for the history, though.

Bam! Contact!

No trouble, and for the record, I intend no offence to any one. If mox thinks I got any more of it wrong, we will no doubt hear about it. Thanks for your just-the-facts-sir attitude here. Tempers seem hot enough. Not sure why though - this is the web after all

[visaveteran 1]

Bam! Contact!

No trouble, and for the record, I intend no offence to any one. If mox thinks I got any more of it wrong, we will no doubt hear about it. Thanks for your just-the-facts-sir attitude here. Tempers seem hot enough. Not sure why though - this is the web after all

Brad, I want to acknowledge your recent even-handed and good-natured posts. IMO, you've evolved into one of the more sensible and humorous posters and I enjoy reading your stuff. The graphics aren't bad either.

As to Mox versus the Mods...my guess is Mox dislikes authority figures and, even greater, feels he is the true moderator and town sheriff. How dare anyone question his online behavior. And he has his posse of fellow posters to egg him on...many it seems from outside the actual RUB forum.