HOOOOOOOOOOOCKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY

[Sprailenes 47]

I love watching Canada vs. US though, it's like watching a crazy all-star game. Even if we lost... it was fun to watch.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Yea one of my coworkers already started on my FB. Canada needs to pull it together, could you imagine if we didn't get gold? We lost world juniors and we lost the olympics??

We'd have NOTHING!

I think if that happened, green slime would fall from the rafters onto them

Watching post-game news conferences is becoming painful. It seems like in each and every sport, coaches especially, just make up words and try to pass it off as technical jargon. "out-chanced" and my personal favorite from football "out-formationed" ARE NOT words or phrases

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

Brodeur didn't lose the game for Canada. The first 2 goals were deflected the 3rd on a crowd in front of the net. Canada out shot the US 44 to 22. We doninated the play and had a lot more hits and scoring chances than the US.

Zoiks...which game were YOU watching? Like I said before, the third goal was a good goal, but the first two should have been routine saves had Brodeur's positioning been solid. It wasn't. You can't give a goaltender a passing grade for missing deflections... Good positioning causes most deflections to bounce of pads or chest. Brodeur looked downright shaky on at least two of the goals. I'd contend that he looked shaky on ALL of them, but so it goes. There is NO WAY we had more hits than the U.S. team. They're aggressive and physical, and that's their greatest strength, other than Miller.

At times it looked like men playing a kids team.

That's a very unfair comment.

I know the score board is what counts in the end but when a team runs into a hot goalie this is what usually happens.

Not if you have a hot goalie yourself...

Martin Brodeur is the best goaltender in the world, has proven his worth many times and has the stats to back it all up.

Martin Brodeur has been one of the best goaltenders in the world (I would say one of the five best...). But he's not anymore. If you want to go by stats, take a look at current NHL leaders. Miller has a .930 save percentage, 2.16 GAA and 30 wins while playing in front of a decidedly mediocre team (Tim Connolly is their leading scorer with 55 points...Tim Connolly!). Evgeni Nabokov has .928 sv%, 2.26 GAA, 34 wins and plays on an offense-minded team. Bryzgalov... .920, 2.30, 32 wins on the Phoenix Coyotes of all teams...predicted at the beginning of the year to be last place in the conference. Kiprusoff -- .925, 2.18, 27 wins on a team that can't score. Brodeur, meanwhile, is at .915, 2.32 with 34 wins...good numbers, sure, but he plays for one of the most defensively sound teams in the league. The .915 is a bit worrisome there. Good numbers...but not great. Indeed, if you're one of those people (like I am) who believe that save percentage is the key goaltending statistic, his CAREER save percentage sits EIGHTH out of goaltenders currently in the league, and ninth all-time. Know which goaltender has the BEST save percentage out of all active goaltenders? Roberto Luongo.

Luongo may start against Germany but when it comes to playing Russia after Germany Marty Brodeur will be back in goal for Canada and will be there when we play for the Gold medal too.

I love Canada. I love Canadian hockey. Truly. I'll be whooping it up and bouncing on my couch if Canada wins Gold in men's hockey. But when you look at the rosters of the other quality teams out there, and more importantly, see how they've been playing...well, thinking that Canada is a "sure thing" for Gold is naively optimistic. They DO have a chance, but it's going to take a lot of effort...and much better goaltending than Brodeur can provide.

Yeah this was a big game in standing order but they didn't hand out the medals yet and that's when it all counts when the cards are on the table.

This was a statement game. This game was as hyped up as any Stanley Cup final or Gold medal game would have been. EVERYone was watching. The pressure to win this one was immense. And Brodeur couldn't handle the pressure. A couple of our defensemen (Pronger especially) didn't fare well either...but if Brodeur is a world class goaltender, this was the kind of game he NEEDED to win. Canada's offense was powerful, and managed to get three goals on a goalie who otherwise had an outstanding performance. There's really no excuse for Brodeur.

Don't jump off the Canadian band wagon there's plenty of hockey to go. Canada is still the best team in the torunament and Marty Brodeur the best goaltender.

I was never ON a bandwagon. I've stated quite frequently (several times on this board, and several times off it) that I don't think the roster of Team Canada is great. I think it's a GOOD team...but there are six other teams, in my opinion, that have a legitimate shot at Gold too: Czech, Russia, U.S.A., Sweden, Finland and even Slovakia. And most of those teams now have one less game to play than Canada... Do I hope that Canada turns it around and wins Gold? Of course! Do I think that's possible with Brodeur in net? Nope.

And J&K's breakdown of each goal is impeccable. I saw them the EXACT same way. Perfectly described, K.!

Finally...was Kesler's empty netter not the best empty net goal anyone has ever seen? Wow...

[The_Dude 1,142]

Settle down there sparky. I think someone needs to go play NHL10 on the 'ol xbox to calm down a bit

[bowflex 0]

Lol Might even want to look at Fleury before Luongo as he's been the best high-pressure playoff goalie the last two or so years. Anyone remember ol' Luongo getting slapped around in his final game last year? lol

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

Settle down there sparky. I think someone needs to go play NHL10 on the 'ol xbox to calm down a bit

I'm calm! I just have too much time on my hands.

[The_Dude 1,142]

I'm calm! I just have too much time on my hands.

XBOX FTW!!!

[Allie 5]

I can't watch really highly important games...I get too mad, or too nervous, so I only saw a couple of goals.

Being a goalie for 22 years, I can tell you, Brodeur did NOT play well at all. He is a very good goalie, but the game has change, and he has not (his style...he remains to be a hybrid goalie whereas, the majority of goaltenders in the game today are butterfly style)

I'm going to try and break the goals down and let you know what he did wrong, and how, even though a couple were deflections, he could have had a chance to make the save.

Goal 1: Shot came from the point, and was deflected past Brodeur's blocker side. Brodeur went down, but only put out his left leg initially, causing him not to be able to react quickly enough when the puck was deflected. In fact, he didn't even move his right leg to try and make the save. Had he gone down in the butterfly to protect the entire net, rather than trying to just make the save on the shot, he might have had a chance to stop the deflection, as his reaction time would have been cut shorter, by his body and leg already being in position.

Goal 2: Brodeur should NOT have batted the puck out of mid air. That was Brodeur being Brodeur and having to go out and play the puck. Now, I'm all for goalies playing the puck (I'm one of them) but you hve to know when to play the puck, or stay in your net. He should have stayed in his net. He made the worst choice in where he ended up putting the puck. He put it in what I call the 'Dead Zone" right up the middle. So, it goes up the middle, and while the US pointman gets the puck, Brodeur is scrambling to get back in net to get in position, and ends up looking like Hasek in that he doesn't even have proper positioning as a Hybrid goalie! Why the heck did he go down like that???? He's an NHL goalie who's probably made that same countless times. If had had gone down into a butterfly, or even semi-butterfly, even with the deflection, he would have made that save because the puck stayed on the ice. Pads on the ice would have stopped it.

Who's at Fault for that goal? Brodeur. If he had let his defense just go and get the puck in the corner, we may have never had the puck up the middle, in fact, it probably would have stayed up along the boards.

Game should have been 1-0 Canada at the end of the first period.

Goal 3: Again, didn't stay in his net! Tried to pokecheck the puck and failed. As a goalie, you need to be 100% sure that you are not going to mess up with the pokecheck, because you are completely vulnerable. He missed and the US player passed it to his man who had a wide open net because Brodeur, once again was way out of position.

Should have been 2-0 Canada at this point.

Goal 4: Good power play goal. Had movement on the ice, good one-timer from the halfboards. If I were going to blame anyone, it would be whomever was in the box!

Should have been 3-1 (After Canada scored) at this point.

Goal 5: Obviously an empty net.

Reasons why we lost that game? Goaltending on both ends. Brodeur did not play well, and Miller did. Simple as that. Had Brodeur made the saves he was supposed to, and not put himself out of position (and as a goalie, that's WHAT A GOALIE'S JOB IS, to be IN POSITION) even with Miller's stellar performance, we should have won that game.

/stepping out of my crease now

Being a goaltender for 22 yrs. then you should know when you start to make a move one way and a puck is deflected it's not so easy to recover and make a move in the opposite direction.

You point out that Martin Brodeur is not a butterfly type goaltender which I agree he isn't. Why would he want to change his style, his resume would point out his style is working just fine. Do you think Ryan Miller's style is all butterfly?

How did Brodeur look in the shoot out game in a pressure situation? Looked pretty darn good to me.

The goal scored on the puck he batted didn't go up the middle it went close to the left point and if a Canadian player had gotten that puck we would have had a breakaway as the US were penetrating the Canadian zone on the shoot in.

Hockey is a team game and no one player loses the game. You win as a team, you lose as a team. I played and coached in semi pro sport for over 30 yrs. and we as players and coaches do not point blame or single players out why we lose. We all learn to lose before we learn to win.

When the medal round starts I assure you Brodeur will be in goal for Canada and he should be. We have the best goaltender and team in the world and when the cards are on the table Brodeur and our Canadian team will be there when it counts.

[J&K 0]

Being a goaltender for 22 yrs. then you should know when you start to make a move one way and a puck is deflected it's not so easy to recover and make a move in the opposite direction.

You point out that Martin Brodeur is not a butterfly type goaltender which I agree he isn't. Why would he want to change his style, his resume would point out his style is working just fine. Do you think Ryan Miller's style is all butterfly?

How did Brodeur look in the shoot out game in a pressure situation? Looked pretty darn good to me.

The goal scored on the puck he batted didn't go up the middle it went close to the left point and if a Canadian player had gotten that puck we would have had a breakaway as the US were penetrating the Canadian zone on the shoot in.

Hockey is a team game and no one player loses the game. You win as a team, you lose as a team. I played and coached in semi pro sport for over 30 yrs. and we as players and coaches do not point blame or single players out why we lose. We all learn to lose before we learn to win.

When the medal round starts I assure you Brodeur will be in goal for Canada and he should be. We have the best goaltender and team in the world and when the cards are on the table Brodeur and our Canadian team will be there when it counts.

The point being on the deflections was, they were not highly skilled deflections that could NOT be stopped. Had he been in the correct position, the deflection most likely would have hit him, therefore making the save.

And 'up the middle' to a goalie, is anything that's between the dots on the circles...anything between there, is the 'middle', not the literal middle.

I still think he should have stayed in his net.

I too played the same way that Brodeur does, but the game has changed, and so has the equipment, you need to adapt, and while I consider myself still a Hybrid goalie, I adapt to the play and use the butterfly style in a lot of my game.

Yes, he looked good in the shootout, but guess what? He didn't look good last night and we lost.

A team sport must have all of the elements of a team to win, and Brodeur made two selfish mistakes in going out of his net to make plays that cost them 2 goals.

As much as I love Team Canada, I don't believe we have the best team out there this year. If we did, we'd be #1 in the standings, not 6th.

Brodeur was once the best goalie in the world, but I don't think he is anymore. Eventually, age and the game pass you by. Do you think Gretzky was in top form when he retired? I'm hoping Babcock thinks real hard about who he starts in net against Germany, and if we win, Russia.

I'm not off the Canada bandwagon, I just hope we don't add Vancouver to the likes of Nagano, or Torino...

Edited February 22, 2010 by J&K

[J&K 0]

Adding to my above post since I can no longer edit:

But, since we'll probably disagree again Allie, I'll agree to disagree

I've always been a fan of Brodeur, and I hope that Team Canada can redeem themselves to come back for the Gold. What a great story it would be!

Just so many darn good players out there now....so hard to dominate the game, and the world.

[darkchilde794 5]

All I have to say is, if my husband does not stop gloating, someone will be in the doghouse.

On another note, did anyone get to watch the Russia vs Czech Republic game? THAT game was awesome!

[bowflex 0]

All I have to say is, if my husband does not stop gloating, someone will be in the doghouse.

On another note, did anyone get to watch the Russia vs Czech Republic game? THAT game was awesome!

Lol Ovechkin knocked the grey clean out of Jagr's beard in that game

[Allie 5]

Zoiks...which game were YOU watching? Like I said before, the third goal was a good goal, but the first two should have been routine saves had Brodeur's positioning been solid. It wasn't. You can't give a goaltender a passing grade for missing deflections... Good positioning causes most deflections to bounce of pads or chest. Brodeur looked downright shaky on at least two of the goals. I'd contend that he looked shaky on ALL of them, but so it goes. There is NO WAY we had more hits than the U.S. team. They're aggressive and physical, and that's their greatest strength, other than Miller.

I'm assuming I watched the same Canada/US game that you did. Can't agree with you on your deflection theory. Deflections are one of the most difficult shots on goal for a goaltender to stop. The reaction time is almost impossible sure once in awhile a goalie stops a deflection but the majority of deflection end up over the net or in the net.

When a goaltender makes a move to where a shot is headed then all of a sudden it changes direction he/she is pretty well handcuffed.

As for the US being physical and aggressive, no way the US has been rated and scouted as a fast skating team not aggressive and physical.

This is from TSN write up:

Physically, they punished the U.S. team, with Rick Nash leading the way in dishing out major open-ice hits.

That's a very unfair comment.

I go back to your opening statement " which game were you watching" Canada dominated and there were times where the US couldn't get the puck away from the men. The US reminded me of kids chasing grown ups for the puck scrambling all over the ice.

Not if you have a hot goalie yourself...

There are games where one goaltender tends to as we say " stand on his head" and this was one of those games. Even with the goals the US. scored if not for a hot goaltender Canada could have easily had a blow out game.

Martin Brodeur has been one of the best goaltenders in the world (I would say one of the five best...). But he's not anymore. If you want to go by stats, take a look at current NHL leaders. Miller has a .930 save percentage, 2.16 GAA and 30 wins while playing in front of a decidedly mediocre team (Tim Connolly is their leading scorer with 55 points...Tim Connolly!). Evgeni Nabokov has .928 sv%, 2.26 GAA, 34 wins and plays on an offense-minded team. Bryzgalov... .920, 2.30, 32 wins on the Phoenix Coyotes of all teams...predicted at the beginning of the year to be last place in the conference. Kiprusoff -- .925, 2.18, 27 wins on a team that can't score. Brodeur, meanwhile, is at .915, 2.32 with 34 wins...good numbers, sure, but he plays for one of the most defensively sound teams in the league. The .915 is a bit worrisome there. Good numbers...but not great. Indeed, if you're one of those people (like I am) who believe that save percentage is the key goaltending statistic, his CAREER save percentage sits EIGHTH out of goaltenders currently in the league, and ninth all-time. Know which goaltender has the BEST save percentage out of all active goaltenders? Roberto Luongo.

My opinion Brodeur still is #1 in the world. You give stats so I'll give some too

Brodeur has played 6 more games (58 verses 52 Miller) has 7 shutouts and 34 wins.

Although Brodeur has 130 goals against to Miller's 111 keep in mind he played 6 more games

Can't see why you figure Miller plays with a mediocre team.

Kolvachuck leads New Jersey with 63 pts but most of those were with Atlanta so let's say Parise leads the team with 61pts. Not much in difference between he and Connelly with his 55pts.

New Jersey has 77 pts Buffalo 75 pts.

New Jersey has scored 162 goals where as Buffalo has scored 166 goals

New Jersey has given up 144 goals where as Buffalo has given up 152 goals.

New Jersey has scored 166 goals over all while Buffalo has 162 over all

If one goes by stats then they're pretty well even. Stat don't win games a quality team wins games.

I love Canada. I love Canadian hockey. Truly. I'll be whooping it up and bouncing on my couch if Canada wins Gold in men's hockey. But when you look at the rosters of the other quality teams out there, and more importantly, see how they've been playing...well, thinking that Canada is a "sure thing" for Gold is naively optimistic. They DO have a chance, but it's going to take a lot of effort...and much better goaltending than Brodeur can provide.

I will agree with you on yes Canada as a whole team hasn't played to their potential. Brodeur aside do you think with all the offensive firepower Canada has goaltending should even be a issue? I mean come on with our line up other than Russia who matches it..

All I can say and I fully believe this " when it come crunch time don't worry Brodeur and the rest of Team Canada will be there.

This was a statement game. This game was as hyped up as any Stanley Cup final or Gold medal game would have been. EVERYone was watching. The pressure to win this one was immense. And Brodeur couldn't handle the pressure. A couple of our defensemen (Pronger especially) didn't fare well either...but if Brodeur is a world class goaltender, this was the kind of game he NEEDED to win. Canada's offense was powerful, and managed to get three goals on a goalie who otherwise had an outstanding performance. There's really no excuse for Brodeur.

You're actually going to state that Martin Brodeur with all his experience in huge games couldn't handle pressure. He like the rest of his teamates in this tournament are proffessionals and have been in many pressure situations, so pressure is secondary to them.

How did he look under pressure in the shoot out, handled that pretty well didn't he? Although we lost Brodeur is a world class goaltender

Then you agree Miller played above himself. Once again the hot goaltender theory. Without him Canada would have had a blow out even with 4 goals against..

I was never ON a bandwagon. I've stated quite frequently (several times on this board, and several times off it) that I don't think the roster of Team Canada is great. I think it's a GOOD team...but there are six other teams, in my opinion, that have a legitimate shot at Gold too: Czech, Russia, U.S.A., Sweden, Finland and even Slovakia. And most of those teams now have one less game to play than Canada... Do I hope that Canada turns it around and wins Gold? Of course! Do I think that's possible with Brodeur in net? Nope.

I'm on Canada's bandwagon and win or lose will continue to ride that bandwagon. When my team loses then I lose with them not pick them apart and lay blame. I'll support them when they lose and when they win.

I think we have a great roster and other than Canada getting Gold the only other possible Gold teams I see are Russia and Sweden.

And J&K's breakdown of each goal is impeccable. I saw them the EXACT same way. Perfectly described, K.!

Finally...was Kesler's empty netter not the best empty net goal anyone has ever seen? Wow...

[J&K 0]

And J&K's breakdown of each goal is impeccable. I saw them the EXACT same way. Perfectly described, K.!

Wow, I completely missed this

Thanks! I take pride in my goaltending knowledge and ability

If I were still in Canada, I would probably be a goalie coach for a girl's team, as I was pretty darn good, if I do say so myself

Annnnnd, I did have off games where I was to blame for losing games as well, and the funny thing? Even though they were years ago, they still haunt me

Edited February 22, 2010 by J&K

[The_Dude 1,142]

So, in summary of this whole arguement for the last 2 pages, I think we can surmise that somehow, some way, this is all Patrick Roy's fault.