The cat rant and rave

[HannahP 119]

Finally, I don't recall any explanation about why your personal life is off limits...maybe you need to refresh my memory. You seem fine dishing it out but put up a wall to protect yourself when someone returns fire. Not the gentlemanly thing to do.

I hate to be that American ###### but I wasn't stereotyping you earlier. In the past, you've posted about your prior girlfriends in numerous countries. Your conclusions about what makes a 'successful' marriage are drawn upon your numerous relationships, remember? Women aren't retarded, despite what you might think.

[SMR 368]

I've read the "women cheat more than men" studies too, and I call bullshit. What these studies fail to take into account are the single men who are cheating with married women. (one study I read said that the percentage of men who don't know the woman is married is almost insignificant, so ignorant men don't really come into play) If you are having sex with a person you know to be married, you are cheating too, even if you're not married. It's a moral thing, and you are by no means excused from being a cheating scumbag just because you're the half of the cheating scumbag team that's not cheating on their spouse. By that definition, cheating is almost exactly 50/50. It takes two to tango.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but it doesn't have to be 50/50. The situation where women are more likely to cheat just means that multiple women are cheating with the same man. So the percentage of women that are cheating in that case would be higher.

I find these studies to be bogus simply because with sensitive subjects, such as cheating, I doubt you are likely to get honesty, even in a "anonymous" study. In order for the study to be scientific, it must involve the studier contacting people and not vice-versa. That means either calling or going door to door. Internet surveys wouldn't be scientific. If you tried to have people come to you, you will be limited and biased by the demographic that comes. In either situation, I think a lot of people would be hesitant to own up to cheating because even if they are promised anonymity, they know the studier has contact info.

That's a man's perspective. Would women be equally skeptical?

[visaveteran 1]

I think Mox has a very strong point here. I guess I'm in the smaller contingent (according to VV) whose first marriage is to a Russian. I didn't marry her because she was Russian or because of what people said about Russians. I met her and liked her and after considerable effort convinced her to marry me.

The FSU woman/American man marriages are simply a matter of numbers. In the USA, there are more young men than young women. In the FSU, there are more young women than young men. I know that not only young people get married, but things are driven by these demographics.

I find the whole section of this thread about wife beating to be ridiculous. In every country and culture there are women who put up with being beaten. Domestic abuse is also a leading cause of divorce. I spent a couple years in the FSU and met many women who left their husbands who beat them, including my MIL. It didn't give them a sense of security or love.

Many people in Russia never actually get married so it makes data on such things almost meaningless. I'd like your data source on abuse being the leading cause of divorce...I assume you mean legal divorce, not just walking out the door on a common law type arrangement. I doubt too many Russian men sweat divorce because there are no real consequences and they'll find a replacement "wife" the next day. I'd be more inclined to bet cheating is the bigger cause of divorce....or drinking too much.

[visaveteran 1]

Found an interesting article on Russia wife beating. Sorry, its a bit long.

Domestic violence in peasant Russia is well-documented. In fact, physical abuse was expected and accepted in the Russian peasant household.

Domestic Violence in Peasant Russia – The Culture of Wife-Beating

Wife-beating in peasant Russia was the most prevalent form of domestic violence, although other members of the household could abuse their son's bride, and the children produced by any marriage were often punished physically. Culturally, wife-beating was seen as natural, healthy, and necessary. Peasants even exchanged adages about the advantages of beating their wives, which described how physical abuse would make a woman work harder, speak less, and tolerate more from her husband. Moreover, during the Russian peasant wedding ceremony, the groom often held a whip to symbolize the wife-beatings that were to come after he brought his bride home to his family.

Domestic Violence in Peasant Russia – Alcoholism and Wife-Beating

In peasant Russia, vodka was a staple, especially among peasant men. This alcoholic beverage was so highly valued that it was often used as payment for goods and services. The consumption of vodka, however, increased the instances of domestic violence in peasant Russia. Beatings were often expected by wives upon the arrival of a husband who had just stumbled home from the village tavern. These beatings could be even more relentless than when the man was sober, and a woman could “trigger” a beating for any minor or imagined trespass.

Domestic Violence in Peasant Russia – Punishment and Escape

Most peasant women bore the abuse of their husbands as a matter of course. Some women ran away from their husbands, secured divorce, or sought aid from relatives. Relatives could intervene if the abuse was too excessive – clergymen or local officials might be petitioned in order to gain reprieve for the abused woman. Unfortunately, these cases were rare. The husband's family could then succeed in filing a counter-suit against his wife's family in such an instance, whereby the bride might be returned to her husband only to bear the abuse indefinitely.

Domestic Violence in Peasant Russia – Wives Beating Husbands

While wife-beating was the more common form of domestic violence in peasant Russia, peasant women were not completely free of blame. Wives beating their husbands was not unheard of. A peasant women was also equally able to became drunk and unruly or take advantage of the weaknesses of her spouse.

Read more at Suite101: Domestic Violence - Peasant Russia: Wife-Beating Was a Common Form of Physical Abuse in Rural Villages http://russian-ukrainian-belarus-history.s...a#ixzz0bgNldaSg

[SMR 368]

Many people in Russia never actually get married so it makes data on such things almost meaningless. I'd like your data source on abuse being the leading cause of divorce...I assume you mean legal divorce, not just walking out the door on a common law type arrangement. I doubt too many Russian men sweat divorce because there are no real consequences and they'll find a replacement "wife" the next day. I'd be more inclined to bet cheating is the bigger cause of divorce....or drinking too much.

I didn't say the leading cause of divorce; I said a leading cause of divorce. My point is, while you may find some women who have literally been beaten into submission, and think that it's normal, I doubt you'll find many women who complain that their husband doesn't beat them enough. Yes, many women want their men to be more assertive, confident, and maybe even aggressive. But that doesn't mean they want to be beaten.

My argument is not that domestic violence isn't common or perhaps even culturally accepted. The ridiculous part is to suggest that women like it or it makes them feel more secure.

While you may find some women that feel some pleasure from the beating, that's simply because they want attention from their husbands and even negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Read "A Harlem Tragedy" by O. Henry. It's certainly tongue in cheek and satirical, but it has a lot of truth to it. It isn't that women want to be beaten. They would just rather that their husbands do something.

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/2009/

Edited January 4, 2010 by SMR

[visaveteran 1]

I didn't say the leading cause of divorce; I said a leading cause of divorce. My point is, while you may find some women who have literally been beaten into submission, and think that it's normal, I doubt you'll find many women who complain that their husband doesn't beat them enough. Yes, many women want their men to be more assertive, confident, and maybe even aggressive. But that doesn't mean they want to be beaten.

My argument is not that domestic violence isn't common or perhaps even culturally accepted. The ridiculous part is to suggest that women like it or it makes them feel more secure.

While you may find some women that feel some pleasure from the beating, that's simply because they want attention from their husbands and even negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Read "A Harlem Tragedy" by O. Henry. It's certainly tongue in cheek and satirical, but it has a lot of truth to it. It isn't that women want to be beaten. They would just rather that their husbands do something.

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/2009/

Guess you missed the article I posted regarding wife beating in Russia. Have a look and then tell me it's ridiculous.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The reason more men are looking outside the US for wives is because of the internet. It really is that simple, because the internet has made it that simple. And looking outside the US is nowhere near as common as relationship services like Match.com or Friendfinder. The percentage of men looking outside the US is a pittance compared to more traditional methods and services. As proof, look at every person you knew before you ever became involved in the RU community. How many of them were married to Russians. I'm the first person I've ever known married to a Russian woman, and I've lived in some pretty urban areas. I can probably count on one hand the number of international/American couples I knew, not counting when I was in the Navy. (I have *never* known a single man stationed in Okinawa but didn't come back with a Japanese bride.) If the number of international/American couples you know amounts to any significant percentage of the couples you know (outside of friends you've made because of your situation) then you're the exception not the rule.

I don't dispute what you say, of course a new means of communication, particularly with a region that was formerly isolated will certainly increase interaction and, resultingly more marriages.

In may case I never looked online for a wife or a date, here, there or anywhere. I went there as a babe in the woods completely unaware of any cultural differences (knowing there would be some, of course) It was only after being there for some time that I swore off American women cold turkey. I still didn't look on the internet (no need to, I was there, there was like 800,000 drop dead gorgeous women right outside the door, just in one city) In my case, after experiencing that there IS a difference, nothing else would do. Oddly enough after two years I meet the Ukrainian woman I marry at a bus stop while in Prague. Go figure.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

It's about intentionality. If a man randomly meets a Russian woman and marries her, then who cares? Boy meets girl...end of story.

But when droves of American men shell out large sums of time, energy and money to intentionally look outside the USA for a wife, then we need to look at cause and effect. What social milieu exists within the USA to cause so many men to forsake American women? We all well know the hell we go through dealing with K-1 and CR-1 visas...the costs, the awful waiting, the difficult transition, the cultural differences, the language issues.

Why do we do it?

There can only be one obvious reason...those men keenly don't want an American wife. So any discussion of this phenomena is understandable. I don't think we can ever talk about ALL women, but we can talk about a preponderance of women. We can talk about trends. We can talk about social data and see what that tells us.

The emotional tone of some of these conversations--the anger or snide humor--is flowing out of wounds and hurt feelings and bad experiences. It is not unlike how so many men on the forum trash Russian men. Can we condemn all Russian men...no. Can we speak of trends with drinking, cheating, not caring for children...yes.

The topic of the US "gender wars" has been discussed for decades and many books have been written about it. It is still a topical issue.

Following your theory, we could say the same about English, Australian, and other Western-like men and women, but I beg to differ. There are good and bad people in every country around the world (I met some FSU women that I would never think of marrying, even if I am drunk). In fact, one day in London I met a fantastic English woman... not fat, very attractive, and very kind. I did not pursue her because I was already committed to my "now" wife, but if I had been alone, I would have certainly gone all the way with her ... despite what the many English men looking for foreign wives would say about their own women.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Second comment: The tradition in Russia is the man is the ultimate boss...even if he lays around the house while his wife goes out to work. It is also a tradition in Russia for the husband to "tune up" (slap) his wife once in awhile to keep her in line.

The lesson here for American men is that Russian women (at least those old enough to remember how dad treated mom during the old days) expect and respect a strong man who takes on the role as the "boss." This may not be immediately apparent as she feels her way along with her American man, but somewhere down the road it could well show up. She may "test" her man to see what he's made of. So, I judge it is a mistake to start off a relationship with Russian women by trying to be overly complacent or too accommodating. Or give in to their sometimes goofy demands because they look so "hot." We don't beat our wives but we can be strong and assertive when needed and at some level the women will feel comfort and support from this.

I think this is what Slim has always tried to teach new husbands or financees on the forum.

I was talking to my wife about past relationships and I asked her why her most important relationship(s) ended. Her response:

"I was tired of having to take care of everything. I had to work, pay the bills, go to the supermarket, and do everything around the house. In summary, most Russian men expect their women to wear every hat and still take care of their men ... I got tired of all that."

And then I hear that we (fat, old, and bald men) look to Russia for submissive women, while we are afraid of "independent" American women What could be more independent that what my wife had to do?

[visaveteran 1]

I've always found Brit women to be very sexy...especially when they speak the Queen's English. If my odds of finding a great and beautiful wife, with basically unspoiled values in Western Europe, I'd have looked there. But not very many women from Europe are looking for an American husband. They have plenty to choose from in their own back yard.

I too met Russian women I did not like, nothing is absolute. But even those Russian women would still make some of my old American girlfriends look bad. I'd say the odds are just much better in Russia...especially if you do the background work and get to know them beyond emails and one visit. You have to play the best odds.

[Martyshk 137]

Just to break the statistics hehe: my first marriage will be to a FSU woman, because I'm a FSU man hehe.

It's the only way things can work out for me too.

But yeah, stop the bickering

Good luck to everyone!!!

[FortLaudy 10]

The fact is vv, there are no hard numbers to say either way. I'm not going to get into a guessing game about something that has no measurable basis. If you want to believe that there's some kind of gender war going on in the US and that men are getting sick and tired of nasty controlling overweight harpies en masse, then believe away. I think it's a fiction borne of misdirected bitterness.

In any case, I stand by my original point: there's no reason to run down an entire gender population in order to justify our choices. It smacks of insecurity, and it only serves to empower those who would label our relationships anything but the serious endeavors that they are. You didn't marry your wife because of who she's not, you married her because of who she is. Celebrate that and be happy. I really don't have anything else to say on the subject.

I came to check up on the cat, but I have to say: Mox you said it best!!!

When I see men on here bashing Western/American woman for this or that reason and that they're in the process of bringing a foreign bride over, I immediately go : I'm thinking.. Geeezzz He has very high expectations of this poor unsuspecting girl, and he's not even 100% sure why she married him (GC/Money or not).

I'm thinking there are probably good reasons why he could not find somebody here in the first place, he probably has nothing going on for him and he's insecure, something along the lines of: no friends, no social life, no ambition, no interests, no hobbies etc. and on top of that huge age difference and not much going on in the looks department... these are all assumptions, but honestly what I think is she'll get here and dump him too for the same reasons he could not find a "local" wife...

He wants to lure a hot young thing over to the US with a GC or promise of a ton of money or whatever the promise will be... It's pretty easy to get these woman over here with such promises, but keeping them is a different story, because if you have nothing else going for you then you should not be surprised if she leaves once she's got what you've had on offer: the GC/money whatever you promised...

Woman are woman, give or take a few cultural differences we pretty much all have the same needs... we treat our husbands how they treat us...

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I came to check up on the cat, but I have to say: Mox you said it best!!!

When I see men on here bashing Western/American woman for this or that reason and that they're in the process of bringing a foreign bride over, I immediately go : I'm thinking.. Geeezzz He has very high expectations of this poor unsuspecting girl, and he's not even 100% sure why she married him (GC/Money or not).

I'm thinking there are probably good reasons why he could not find somebody here in the first place, he probably has nothing going on for him and he's insecure, something along the lines of: no friends, no social life, no ambition, no interests, no hobbies etc. and on top of that huge age difference and not much going on in the looks department... these are all assumptions, but honestly what I think is she'll get here and dump him too for the same reasons he could not find a "local" wife...

He wants to lure a hot young thing over to the US with a GC or promise of a ton of money or whatever the promise will be... It's pretty easy to get these woman over here with such promises, but keeping them is a different story, because if you have nothing else going for you then you should not be surprised if she leaves once she's got what you've had on offer: the GC/money whatever you promised...

Woman are woman, give or take a few cultural differences we pretty much all have the same needs... we treat our husbands how they treat us...

I agree with your post. I think that's the case with a lot of men who marry outside their own country....maybe even mine...not sure, but after reading that post of yours I'm starting to have my worries...... but only time will tell. I wasn't seeking a younger foreign wife when I met Kira, but so far I'm happy I did. If I could read her mind I would know her true intentions...but I'm no mind reader. As far as getting a woman here....np in that dept. I'm an iron worker, so I'm in decent shape, I go out dancing on the weekends and have never had a problem getting laid....I just haven't met anyone here that I want to settle down with...well I was married for 8 years, and shacked with another gal for close to six years...and ended up losing the farm with both of them. Not sure who's to blame for my divorce..., but it had run it's course by the time we split up.

I'm at the point in my life where I have no time for bs. Been there...done that. The last thing I need is head games. I'm quite happy living alone....been doing it since 2004. I don't have to meet anyones expectations, put up with anyones bs, etc... Now all that is going to change once Kira arrives here. Since I met Kira I have had to change my entire wardrobe...I'm usually in 501's, t-shirt, and a baseball cap. Now it's dockers, button up shirts, casual dress shoes, and polo cologne. I'm used to it now, and my friends finally stopped calling me a p*ssy whipped ** for the fact they think anyone that doesn't where jeans and a t-shirt every day of the week is a pansy (welcome to the world of Alaska's construction workers).

Funny thing is...none of the men here say anything negative in regards to my wife being foreign and/or younger. It's the women I hear this from. I have been accused of marrying a "trophy wife". It bothered me at first, but I'm happy my wife looks like a knockout. Iv'e met beautiful older women, women my age, and beautiful younger women. My wife happens to be younger, but if she was twenty years older than me and didn't look half as hot as she does it wouldn't make any difference. I love her for who she is, and what she is. She is one of the most educated, and intelligent people I have ever met. She's one of the few gals I have talked to for hours and never noticed the time pass by. We have laid in bed for hours, ate cherry's and talked until the sun started to come up and never got bored.

It's like living the dream, and I'm going to enjoy it as long as it last.

[Nasturtium 500]

we differ on this Mox. If I receive bad service from a business, for example, I feel it is only fair to tell them that I will no longer be using that business "because...." It is a service to them to inform them that they are losing money "because..." If I say nothing and go on to another business, how does that business ever have the opportunity to correct its problems. It frustrates me to no end when I must deal with the gvernment's poor service and have no choice where to go after that.

Yes, my first marriage was to an American woman (this is my second marriage, for the record) I was young and didn't know any better and heck, they are everywhere, so what do you expect? Long story short we divorced after a relatively long marriage and I ended up taking a job assignment in Ukraine to get WAY away from that. This ultimately led to my meeting Alla by chance, though not in Ukraine for what it's worth. neither of us was looking for a foreign spouse, I met her completely by chance in the course of normal life.

That said, after two years in Ukraine there just was no way I would ever be interested in an American woman again. I mean, for me, it is an absolute deal breaker, or would be. I simply wouldn't take the chance, the odds are way to against it. Actually it took about 30 seconds to realize there was some huge differences which I liked very much. It is not that I feel a need to "bash" anyone, but it is a service to them to inform them why I would never have anything to do with one again. Maybe they will eventually change and realize the power they have lost. Maybe not and it is just gloating. Ok with me either way.

I do not feel I am "justifying" because I really couldn't possibly care less what someone else thinks about my marriage.

OK, this is a serious (not a snarky) question. Why would you care if American women "improved" or realized the "errors of their ways"? Who are you actually trying to help? American men of the future? American women as a gender-whole? Americans as a societal whole? Or yourself (by virtue of vindication or any other emotional attachment to the situation)?

[Nasturtium 500]

I really don't think you get what I'm saying. I'm not telling you who to marry, I'm not even telling you how to marry. I think it's every person's right to find that "someone special" in whatever manner or locale they decide is best. Russia, Ukraine, China, Australia, Kuwait, or New Jersey, it doesn't matter to me, and you should never EVER feel that you have to justify your decision beyond "she makes me happy" to anyone else. And yet it just seems like the talk on this forum eventually always falls to justifying our decision, often in the form of trashing an entire gender population, usually American women. Why is that even necessary? When I married my American wife, I never felt like I had to justify my reasons or wax poetic about what traits set her above and beyond another nationalities. And the same goes with my FSU wife. We make each other happy, that's all anyone needs to know.

Thank G-d someone said it (I know others have too and thank G-d for all of you too). I don't really understand the pissing matches or the justifications. I also have never felt the need to actually justify (as opposed to my joke justifications, several of which are probably posted in this forum because this forum is awesome and I enjoy also parodying posts and subjects) my marriage or any of my mate choices. Firstly, I honestly do not care what people, especially people I don't know, think. Secondly, I am not defensive-- probably because I am secure in what I have. Thirdly, I know who I am and what I am/like/value. I don't care that people think I met my husband online, I am fat, unattractive, older than him significantly, a convert to Islam, under-educated, looking for a boy-toy, or any other MENA-wife-stereotype/American woman stereotype people may have about me, true or not. I'm happy with who I am and what I got. End of story.